Hurting People On TOL

[aikido7]

You can believe whatever you want.

I do. And don't we all? But here might be a difference between you and I which is crucial: I THRIVE & WELCOME challenges to both my belief system and my knowledge base because I know that I can only further refine and distill my own Christian faith. I look forward to further scrutinize my thoughts and beliefs in the public arena.

More nonsense. To Paul Jesus WAS the Son of God (not became, silliness).

I think you should study the gospel accounts more carefully and pay special attention to how each writer tells us where and when Jesus became the "Son of God."

I have long left behind my puzzlement as to the discrepancies and contradictions found in the New Testament. Just as we do in the 21st century, the early communities of believers carried with them a Jesus who made sense to them and spoke to their own with their unique trials and tribulations. I am not threatened by the diversity of history and belief in the Bible so I have never had to mentally twist any part of the Bible into some mental pretzel to "explain" the contradictions.

These were unique communities who had their own agenda. Just as we Christian believers do today.

I great deal of what the Bible DESCRIBES and EXPLAINS is not "in the text".

The New Testament is always predicated on a dynamic between and among what is actually IN the text, what the original authors meant at the time and finally, what we ourselves do to make it have some sense to our own time and place.

Many theological ideas (for example, the Trinity) is not found specifically and literally in the original New Testament. It must be a mixture of the Bible PLUS our interpretation of it. I have studied church history for some time and now know that every generation since the crucifixion has had different interpretations of what the New Testament is saying.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

You're like a broken record.......

You just dated yourself.

 

[noguru]

You just dated yourself.

I date myself all the time. Probably because no one else will.

:rotfl:

 

[Angel4Truth]

The SDA have thier own Bible call "Clear Word"

Are you a SDA?

No. Dont know where you got that from what i said in any way whatever. I was using meshaks own words where she tells people they don't believe 'Jesus clear word' when she is who doesn't believe it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I have never stated that Yeshua or John were lying. I simply look at everything that Yeshua said. You can not deny what Yeshua stated in John 15 or to John in His Revelation.

And you cannot deny that He said we (believers) never come into judgment and have passed (past tense) from death to life.

So if you are claiming we can pass back into death from life, you need to show scriptures that state such (good luck) and how we can be snatched from His hand and break the seal of God, now please answer my questions that you keep avoiding.

Being able to pass back into death is so dire that it seems you would be able to point to exactly how and why that can happen and you cant answer my questions about it. Did the Lord forget to tell us we can pass back into death after He said we will never come into judgment?

Either you arent sure what the bible teaches, or you believe Christ lied about that, which is it?

 

[TulipBee]

No. Dont know where you got that from what i said in any way whatever. I was using meshaks own words where she tells people they don't believe 'Jesus clear word' when she is who doesn't believe it.

I didn't think so. If clear word is meshak's slang word, then she must be dabbling in the SDA denomination. SDA have similarities with JW.

 

[TulipBee]

Man oh man, I think Nang is losing it? I hope she gets well soon!
I hate to see a grown woman ranting and raving like someone
who can't control their temper!

but you sparked it. It's your fault.

 

[IMJerusha]

And you cannot deny that He said we (believers) never come into judgment and have passed (past tense) from death to life.

Not only can I not deny it, I do not deny it.

So if you are claiming we can pass back into death from life, you need to show scriptures that state such (good luck) and how we can be snatched from His hand and break the seal of God, now please answer my questions that you keep avoiding.

No, those are your words, not mine and I've never stated that we can be snatched from Yeshua's hand. We can, however, be tempted away. We can choose to sin or not to sin.

Being able to pass back into death is so dire that it seems you would be able to point to exactly how and why that can happen and you cant answer my questions about it. Did the Lord forget to tell us we can pass back into death after He said we will never come into judgment?

"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:31-32

Either you arent sure what the bible teaches, or you believe Christ lied about that, which is it?

I'm very sure what the Ruach teaches and what He teaches never goes against Scripture.

 

[IMJerusha]

You just dated yourself.

Yeah, I know.

 

[IMJerusha]

Yes, there are those who claim many things, but walk in darkness. Those who do not have the TRUTH (Jesus Christ) in them. That isn't me, so quite quoting verses that don't pertain to me. You have a real problem knowing which verses are written to us, don't you? Those are great verses, but you have to understand who they are written to and why before you go flinging them out at someone like slings and arrows.

You sound like those Yeshua was talking about in Matthew 7:22. Picking and choosing what we will obey is not our option. 1 John 1:6-8 applies to all believers.

Those IN CHRIST are children of the light....of the day.

1 Thessalonians 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.​

Indeed. Then stop sinning. You do not have the power or the right to judge believers. "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:10 Therefore, we obey His commands. It's a call to action. John states that "those who obey his commands live in Him, and He in them." How do we do that?....by the leading of the Ruach.

You are exactly like God's unTruth.

No, I am not. God's Truth is a separate creation of God's. I am myself under God and only He has the power or the right to judge me.

You have a mouth but no ears to hear.

That's your judgement which doesn't count for diddly.

John tells you that he who commits sin is of the devil. He also tells you that those born of God do not sin and cannot sin. So, you throw out the many verses to keep the one. Shame on you.

Try again. "Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous." 1 John 3:7 According to you, we don't have to do anything but believe and that goes against way too much Scripture and cheapens God's Grace. There is a call to obedience which John repeats here again: "Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us." You can not continue to tell people that obedience to God and faithfulness to Yeshua isn't necessary when it is. That - is - sin.

Unlike you, I recognize the members of the body and don't assume all who SAY they walk in the light are actually in the light.

Unlike you, I do not take upon myself something I have no right to. It's not your call to determine the contents of ones heart in belief. If someone calls upon Yeshua as their Lord, I take them at their word. It is for Yeshua to judge their hearts. If their actions do not match their claim and they do not do what is right, I warn them and leave them to Yeshua.

Those who preach salvation can be lost are against Him.

Then you'd best be getting on Yeshua and anyone who follows Him.

When you preach salvation can be lost, you are preaching the devil's message.

Then you'd best be getting on Yeshua and anyone who follows Him.

False accuser.

Then do what is right by the leading of Ruach HaKodesh or will you call Him a false leader?

I want you to stop preaching error and calling it truth.

"Shout louder!" Posture harder. Maybe more will believe that we can have our cake and eat it too. It seems to be the popular doctrine du jour.

 

[IMJerusha]

Obedience to the Gospel is believing unto salvation. Can't you read? Why is it you and God's untruth can't read? Did you go to the same school by any chance.

In Matthew 8, Yeshua heals a man with leprosy. "Then Jesus said to him, 'See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.' " Now imagine what would have occurred if the healed man had disobeyed. You justify your doctrine with Scripture. That's not the same thing as believing because of Scripture. And you think to embarrass or shame me with your put down. It doesn't work against me and it sure doesn't work against the Ruach.

Obedience to the Gospel....believing unto righteousness....the obedience of faith. That's what's "called for". We are justified by the OBEDIENCE of ONE. That ONE is the Lord Jesus Christ....not you....not me....not anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. Which is why He gets all the glory and YOU get none.

Faith is faith by choice. Obedience within that faith is by choice in response to the leading of the Ruach. When we choose to obey, we give glory to God. When we disobey, we give glory to HaSatan. I have never claimed that we get any glory.

I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God. Col. 3:3KJV
In fact, I was crucified with Christ and was raised into LIFE....currently seated with Christ in the heavenlies. You can speak for yourself all you want, but you cannot speak for me. I merely wait the redemption of my body.

And according to Yeshua who does speak for you, as long as you remain in Him that will be the case. Otherwise, you will be cut off.

Once again, He was talking to the remaining eleven disciples (Judas was cut off), and the Comforter had not yet come because our Lord had not yet risen. You rest on a text that was not even written to you. That's because you remain on the wrong side of the cross.

Yeah...right. I'm just over here on the wrong side of the Cross with John and Paul and Peter and James and the other disciples. I'm in good company. Oh hey!!...Yeshua's here too! Fancy that!

The Comforter has come.

And He does not advocate disobedience. He advocates fruit.

The Comforter has come.

And He does not advocate disobedience. He advocates fruit.

The Comforter has come.

What?...not bolded this time? He does not advocate disobedience. He advocates fruit.

Yet you claim it's up to you whether you "remain in" Yeshua. Proving, you have not yet been created IN Christ Jesus....a new creature.

It proves that I love Him. Period. "If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever -- the Spirit of truth." John 14:15-16

The obedience of faith ....the obedience of the Gospel is what you don't understand. But, you don't listen any better than God's untruth does, so I expect nothing from you in the future. Ditch the pride and unplug your ears.....take on a teachable attitude....or remain blind and ignorant .....the blind trying to lead the blind.

Oh, I understand the obedience of faith and the obedience that comes from faith. What I don't understand is a believer who advocates so strongly against loving God with all my heart, soul and mind and my neighbor as myself. That's the Law, Glorydaz, in a big nutshell and you absolutely detest it. And don't go crying about how I want to put people under the law for salvation. Your old rhetoric is just not working.

 

[Angel4Truth]

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

:think: Yes, i believe Christ, I dont think He was lying there. Past tense also so it has to happen when He says it does, when we believe.

Not only can I not deny it, I do not deny it.



No, those are your words, not mine and I've never stated that we can be snatched from Yeshua's hand. We can, however, be tempted away. We can choose to sin or not to sin.



"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:31-32



I'm very sure what the Ruach teaches and what He teaches never goes against Scripture.

And your verse is talking about those who arent saved, stop moving the goal posts and actually respond to the point and answer these like you were asked (you say you believe Christ that says we will never be condemned, but claim we can be condemned even though He already said otherwise and then claimed it doesnt happen in this life, even though He claimed otherwise and said we HAVE passed from death to life - have done something isnt a future event so you cant believe Him and then contradict Him): Answer these if you still insist on contradicting Christ -

How does one break the seal of God? How does one pass back into death - if they will no longer be condemned? How many sins does it take?

And verses to back your responses up, where BELIEVERS can cross back into death after Christ says they will never be condemned and have already passed into life.

 

[glorydaz]

Not only can I not deny it, I do not deny it.



No, those are your words, not mine and I've never stated that we can be snatched from Yeshua's hand. We can, however, be tempted away. We can choose to sin or not to sin.



"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:31-32



I'm very sure what the Ruach teaches and what He teaches never goes against Scripture.

Oh, golly, we can be do something wrong and perish even though our Lord said those who believe will never perish, but have passed from death unto life. I sure hope all you workers never make any mistakes and have no faults EVER. The problem with you people who preach out of both sides of your mouth is you're just plain unbelievers. You do not trust the Lord to keep you unto the day of redemption. Plain and simple, admit it. You don't believe He is able to perform what He has promised. Unbelief at it's "finest". :down:

A question for all you doubters. What exactly do you think Jesus accomplished that He could give us salvation as a GIFT? Why do you think you can earn the very thing our Lord died for....with His obedience. You wanna be co-saviours make me ill. :down:

 

[Angel4Truth]

Oh, golly, we can be do something wrong and perish even though our Lord said those who believe will never perish, but have passed from death unto life. I sure hope all you workers never make any mistakes and have no faults EVER. The problem with you people who preach out of both sides of your mouth is you're just plain unbelievers. You do not trust the Lord to keep you unto the day of redemption. Plain and simple, admit it. You don't believe He is able to perform what He has promised. Unbelief at it's "finest". :down:

A question for all you doubters. What exactly do you think Jesus accomplished that He could give us salvation as a GIFT? Why do you think you can earn the very thing our Lord died for....with His obedience. You wanna be co-saviours make me ill. :down:

:thumb:

 

[glorydaz]

And your verse is talking about those who arent saved, stop moving the goal posts and actually respond to the point and answer these like you were asked (you say you believe Christ that says we will never be condemned, but claim we can be condemned even though He already said otherwise and then claimed it doesnt happen in this life, even though He claimed otherwise and said we HAVE passed from death to life - have done something isnt a future event so you cant believe Him and then contradict Him): Answer these if you still insist on contradicting Christ -



And verses to back your responses up, where BELIEVERS can cross back into death after Christ says they will never be condemned and have already passed into life.

She has to move the goal posts...either that or admit she is wrong.

She claims there is nothing different after the cross...which is why she posts almost exclusively from the gospels. She doesn't understand the Comforter could not come until the Lord had risen from the dead. Whoa.....after the cross. And then what?

John 14:16....The HOLY SPIRIT she claims to know so much about....."that He may abide with you FOREVER". The Lord Jesus Christ is NOT a revolving door like these unbelievers claim. He is the DOOR....the one WAY Door into life.

 

[glorydaz]

Oh, I understand the obedience of faith and the obedience that comes from faith. What I don't understand is a believer who advocates so strongly against loving God with all my heart, soul and mind and my neighbor as myself. That's the Law, Glorydaz, in a big nutshell and you absolutely detest it. And don't go crying about how I want to put people under the law for salvation. Your old rhetoric is just not working.

Which makes you the devil's mouthpiece just as I said before. I love the Law, you ignorant heathen. I just know what it was made for and you don't. You'll have to look at what the risen Lord revealed to Paul instead of pretending like you know what the true vine is as per John 15. The Comforter had not yet even come, and you don't even know that simple little fact.

AND No, you do NOT understand the obedience of faith. You don't understand that we are saved by grace through faith....not of ourselves....not of works. That's what you don't understand, and all your phoney baloney high falutin' mumbo jumbo wouldn't fool the most ignorant among us much less a member of the body of Christ.

 

[IMJerusha]

And your verse is talking about those who arent saved, stop moving the goal posts and actually respond to the point and answer these like you were asked (you say you believe Christ that says we will never be condemned, but claim we can be condemned even though He already said otherwise and then claimed it doesnt happen in this life, even though He claimed otherwise and said we HAVE passed from death to life - have done something isnt a future event so you cant believe Him and then contradict Him): Answer these if you still insist on contradicting Christ -
And verses to back your responses up, where BELIEVERS can cross back into death after Christ says they will never be condemned and have already passed into life.

Where is the limitation when Yeshua states "in this age or in the age to come"? And what of Yeshua's words just following John 5:24? “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." John 5:28-29 Repeat...."Those who have done what is good will rise to live". Your interpretation of passing from death to life by simple belief with no necessity for doing good/showing forth fruit is not supported by Yeshua. Yeshua doesn't contradict Himself so it doesn't mean what you think it does. I've already given you John 15:1-16:1 and John 5:28-29. I've given you Matthew 7:21, Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14. I'm sorry but I can't make Scripture disappear to support your doctrine.

 

[Angel4Truth]

She has to move the goal posts...either that or admit she is wrong.

She claims there is nothing different after the cross...which is why she posts almost exclusively from the gospels. She doesn't understand the Comforter could not come until the Lord had risen from the dead. Whoa.....after the cross. And then what?

John 14:16....The HOLY SPIRIT she claims to know so much about....."that He may abide with you FOREVER". The Lord Jesus Christ is NOT a revolving door like these unbelievers claim. He is the DOOR....the one WAY Door into life.

Will not be condemned - has passed - meaning already done - those would have to be a lie if one could later be condemned anyway.

Sealed -

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

I guess that must be a lie too :think:

And this:

Ephesians 1: In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

wow thats past tense too, already done. Guess God is not really sure about it though since we can lose that inheritance even though we were sealed in Him and belong to Him.

Ephesians 1:14
who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

Well i guess according to some, God is an indian giver and lies. Thats says guarantee, and God is no shyster who gives a fake guarantee.

Praise God that He is not a man who should lie.

Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

I will be trusting that what He promised is one i can trust.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Where is the limitation when Yeshua states "in this age or in the age to come"? And what of Yeshua's words just following John 5:24? “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." John 5:28-29 Repeat...."Those who have done what is good will rise to live". Your interpretation of passing from death to life by simple belief with no necessity for doing good/showing forth fruit is not supported by Yeshua. Yeshua doesn't contradict Himself so it doesn't mean what you think it does. I've already given you John 15:1-16:1 and John 5:28-29. I've given you Matthew 7:21, Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14. I'm sorry but I can't make Scripture disappear to support your doctrine.

You have failed yet again to respond to my questions and keep posting scripture that has nothing to do with what i asked.

I guess God is a liar from where you are because indeed He does not contradict Himself - again try to actually copy my questions and answer and explain the answer with RELEVANT scripture - you keep posting scripture that applies to those who do not believe.

We are discussing those who have been saved. (and yes its past tense, not future)

 

[IMJerusha]

Which makes you the devil's mouthpiece just as I said before. I love the Law, you ignorant heathen. I just know what it was made for and you don't. You'll have to look at what the risen Lord revealed to Paul instead of pretending like you know what the true vine is as per John 15. The Comforter had not yet even come, and you don't even know that simple little fact.

AND No, you do NOT understand the obedience of faith. You don't understand that we are saved by grace through faith....not of ourselves....not of works. That's what you don't understand, and all your phoney baloney high falutin' mumbo jumbo wouldn't fool the most ignorant among us much less a member of the body of Christ.

Yeshua is my Lord and you deny His death on the Cross for me which I claim. You don't have that right and what's worse, you deny the work of Ruach HaKodesh...all for the love of your doctrine. How nice! And there you go also right back to the works for salvation rhetoric. Do tell! You can not snatch me from Yeshua and no one who loves Yeshua would try.