Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

[Jerry Shugart]

The remnant were already kingdom believers.
There was no need for them to have to join yet another group of believers.

Don't you know that when the kingdom will be ushered in the nation of Israel will be a special people unto the Lord, above all people on the face of the earth? The kingdom saints will belong to that nation.

The Jewish believers who you call "kingdom believers" did not belong to Israel when the Hebrew epistles were written because that nation had been temporarily set aside.

Perhaps you didn't know that Israel had been set aside?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Formerly Lost Jews / Israelites - including Paul:

All the saved Jews were formerly lost, including Paul.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I watch Spanish tv now. Better looking women and politically incorrect. Perfectos

Spanish TV or Mexican TV?

 

[Tambora]

The remnant is not the BOC.

 

[Tambora]

The believing remnant did not have to be re-saved through Paul's ministry.

 

[intojoy]

Spanish TV or Mexican TV?

All the above


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[intojoy]

The believing remnant did not have to be re-saved through Paul's ministry.

Neither did Job.


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[Jerry Shugart]

The believing remnant did not have to be re-saved through Paul's ministry.

Nobody ever said that. You are grasping at straws!

When Israel was set aside temporarily then the Jewish believers were made members of the Body of Christ and at that time they too had a heavenly calling just like all of the members of the Body of Christ. Here we see two different passages from the Scriptures which speak of a " heavenly calling":

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​

Only those in the Body of Christ have a heavenly calling so those who received the Hebrew epistles were members of the Body of Christ.

This is not difficult to understand if you will just let the Scriptures be your guide.

 

[Tambora]

Nobody ever said that.

It is the implication of your stance.
Either their faith in GOD's blessing and promises to them was already sufficient without the new ministry of Paul, or it was not sufficient and they were supposed to change from the kingdom ministry to the BOC ministry to be sufficient.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is the implication of your stance.
Either their faith in GOD's blessing and promises to them was already sufficient without the new ministry of Paul, or it was not sufficient and they were supposed to change from the kingdom ministry to the BOC ministry to be sufficient.

The kingdom ministry was for when Israel remained in covenant relationship with God. But once Israel was temporarily set aside that changed. The Jewish believers were told to leave the camp of Judaism:

"For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach" (Heb.11:11-13).​

You still have not realized that Israel was temporarily set aside and therefore it is impossible that the Jewish believers had a ministry within the old program.

 

[Tambora]

You still have not realized that Israel was temporarily set aside

Bull.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Bull.

So you do understand that Israel was temporaily set aside?

The kingdom ministry was for when Israel remained in covenant relationship with God. But once Israel was temporarily set aside that changed. The Jewish believers were told to leave the camp of Judaism:

"For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach" (Heb.11:11-13).​

 

[Tambora]

So you do understand that Israel was temporaily set aside?

Every time Israel was set aside, a remnant remained.
Has nothing to do with the establishment of the BOC.

 

[Idolater]

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​

The 'church of the firstborn' there is Christ's Church, invoking Psalm 89:27 KJV.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Every time Israel was set aside, a remnant remained.
Has nothing to do with the establishment of the BOC.

Let us look at what happened when Israel was set aside in the first century:

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).​

All the Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ.

It is that simple but for some reason you cannot seem to understand what Paul said in this passage which I just quoted.

We also see that Jews were baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Simple as can be!

 

[Tambora]

I don't think you get it that the remnant was already established and has nothing to do with new creation of the BOC.
All believers from the beginning are in Christ, but not as the BOC.
The BOC was a new creation.

 

[Tambora]

1 Corinthians 7:20 KJV
(20) Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

 

[Danoh]

Weird, a post I posted to Jerry simply disappeared.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't think you get it that the remnant was already established and has nothing to do with new creation of the BOC.

Who else but the "remnant" and the "Gentile believers" can Paul be speaking about in this passage when he uses the words "both" and "of twain"?:

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).​

 

[intojoy]

Every time Israel was set aside, a remnant remained.
Has nothing to do with the establishment of the BOC.

Amen. John the Baptist - Remnant


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