Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

glorydaz

New member
Pastor Stam wrote the following:

"Note carefully that while God refuses works for salvation today, He required them under other dispensations."
(Cornelius Stam, Things That Differ, [Berean Literature Foundation, Twelfth Printing, 1985], 21).​

However,
Spoiler
the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law makes it abundantly clear that the only requirement for them to be saved was "faith" and faith alone.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
(Jn.6:47).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"
(Jn.11:25-26).​

Now let us look at what is written here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
(Jn.3:16).​

The word "whosoever" in this verse must include not only the Gentile believers as well as the Jews who lived under the law. So all people who believe in the Lord Jesus have in their possession everlasting life and they shall never perish. Besides that, the previous three verses which come straight from the lips of the Lord Jesus Christ and the only requirement which He mentioned for anyone to receive those spiritual blessings is believing. So there can be no doubt that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith apart from works. The following words are from the pen of the Apostle Paul:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
(Ro.4:16).​

However, Jerry refuses to see how things differ, and refuses to consider why that is.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
However, Jerry refuses to see how things differ, and refuses to consider why that is.

It is you who sees differences which are not there, especially concerning your silly ideas as to how those who lived under the law were saved.

No one is saying our Lord's words are not true...Which words do you claim give life, Jerry?

His words which He spoke to the Jews when He said He is the Christ:

"Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me"
(Jn.10:24-25).​

The Lord Jesus said He is the Christ and He said that He is the Son of God (Jn.10:36). Those who believed Him were born of God and received spiritual life:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"
(1 Jn.5:1-5).

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name"
(Jn.20:30-31).​

Again, the following statement of the Lord Jesus spoken to those who lived under the law was an "unconditional" statement:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"
(Jn.6:63).​

What the Lord Jesus said there is either true or false. I have told you exactly what His words were which brought spiritual life and so I believe that what He said is true.

On the other hand, you say that His words by themselves were not sufficient to bring spiritual life to those who lived under the law because none of them could be made alive spiritually apart from works. You still refuse to come to the light (Jn.3:19-21) and you continue to believe that the Spiritual words of the Lord and Savior are impotent.
 

DAN P

New member
I am still waiting for any evidence from the Scriptures which prove that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ.

Hi Jerry and here is just the first prove that Paul was saved by Grace .

#1 , In verse 15 , the last 5 words , of whom I AM , FIRST / PROTOS and here the word CHIEF does not apply !

# 2 The Greek word I / EGO andm in the Greek NOMINATIVE CASE which meand tha Paul in the subject , here .

# 3 Paul is the AM ./ EIMI is in the Geek PRESENT NTENSE whish places and trhat is talking to the B O C .

# 4 The HOLY SPIRIT here calls Paul the I AM , just Jesus is called the I AM .

#5 The Greek word PROTOS is really the English word FIRST and is in the DATIVE CASE which says , it is the DIRECT OBJECT of what the Holy spirit is pointing too >

Notice that in verse 16 the word FIRST / PROTOS is used also here .as a PATTERN of the ONES coming to BELIEVE ON HIM UNTO EVERLASTING LIFE and too the B O C !

By the way , PATTERN is a noun in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and this verse LIMITS Paul as the only one to be THAT PATTERN !

dan p
 

DAN P

New member
Dan, are you saying that Paul was the first person to be saved by grace?

Hi Jerry and that is what 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 say >

Jerry , just check the CASES on BLUE LETTER BIBLE and see what you will see ?

Monday I will a couple more texts as I have to leave at 5:30 PM and have to shut down at the store !

dan p
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Hi Jerry and that is what 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 say >

Dan, those verses do not say that Paul was the first person saved by grace. Paul himself spoke of Abraham as being saved by grace:

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:1-4).

 

DAN P

New member
Dan, those verses do not say that Paul was the first person saved by grace. Paul himself spoke of Abraham as being saved by grace:

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:1-4).​

Hin Jerry and if not saved by GRACE , under what GOSPEL was Paul saved ?

Show us , THEN ? Or explain then how Paul was saved ??

dan p
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Hin Jerry and if not saved by GRACE , under what GOSPEL was Paul saved ?

Show us , THEN ? Or explain then how Paul was saved ??

Paul was saved and born of God when, on the road to Damascus, he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).​
 

DAN P

New member
Paul was saved and born of God when, on the road to Damascus, he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).​

Hi Jerry and I asked HOW was Paul saved by GRACE ?

Did Paul keep the LAW OF M0SES ?

Was Paul water Baptized ?

Was Paul a good Pharisee ?

Was he BLAMELESS ?

Was Paul CIRCUMCISED ?

Was Paul a good church ATTENDEE ?

Was Paul a BORN AGAIN , Pharisee ?

YOU know what I mean , so how was Paul saved and stop beating around the BUSH , so explain if you can ??

dan p
 
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