Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

way 2 go

Well-known member
I have listened to Bob Enyart's The Plot series & I am reading the book.
He settles a bunch of doctrinal debates like:

are believers under the law?
is baptism necessary ?
does salvation by faith require works ?
can believers lose their salvation ?
must believers keep the sabbath ?
is the rapture before the tribulation ?
is there a rapture ?

the post I have read against Mid Acts Disp have not even dented this doctrine nor can they settle these debates once and for all like The Plot has for me.
I keep waiting for some one to prove it wrong but mostly
I get the fact that people don't understand "The Plot"
:think:
"The Plot" \ Mid Acts Disp makes exegesis simple.

the question is :

can you show how your exegesis is correct
and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
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I wish I had that book, but I don't.
So, it's hard for me to comment on what the book actually says.

But I have listened to several of the broadcasts of Enyart, and I deem him one worth listening to.

Perhaps you could give some of the highlight points he makes in the book to confirm the view.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
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can you show how your exegesis is correct
and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?

I haven't read it. This I will say. The biggest poster on the site says it is wrong. He says you can sin your way out of salvation, God doesn't sweep heinous sins under the rug, etc etc.

And he says the exegesis is wrong, but won't say what is right. So, you will not get an answer from anybody. You might get a few strawmen, but that is about it.
 

Lighthouse

Star-Spangled Kid
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way2go-
I certainly think Bob is right.

There's also another book, entitled: Modern Church: Where Tradition Trumps Truth that I think you would enjoy. It was written by Randy Arendell.

I wish I had that book, but I don't.
So, it's hard for me to comment on what the book actually says.

But I have listened to several of the broadcasts of Enyart, and I deem him one worth listening to.

Perhaps you could give some of the highlight points he makes in the book to confirm the view.
You should get it. I did.

I haven't read it. This I will say. The biggest poster on the site says it is wrong. He says you can sin your way out of salvation, God doesn't sweep heinous sins under the rug, etc etc.

And he says the exegesis is wrong, but won't say what is right. So, you will not get an answer from anybody. You might get a few strawmen, but that is about it.
This is true.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
I haven't read it. This I will say. The biggest poster on the site says it is wrong. He says you can sin your way out of salvation, God doesn't sweep heinous sins under the rug, etc etc.
Paul had his accusers too

Rom3:7 ... why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.


And he says the exegesis is wrong, but won't say what is right.
likes this :bang: I guess
So, you will not get an answer from anybody. You might get a few strawmen, but that is about it.

well people in here can tell you how the JW's are wrong and back it up with scripture
you would think the #1 poster or anybody could do the same against Mid Acts Disp if it were not the truth.
 

Vaquero45

New member
Hall of Fame
I have listened to Bob Enyart's The Plot series & I am reading the book.
He settles a bunch of doctrinal debates like:

are believers under the law?
is baptism necessary ?
does salvation by faith require works ?
can believers lose their salvation ?
must believers keep the sabbath ?
is the rapture before the tribulation ?
is there a rapture ?

the post I have read against Mid Acts Disp have not even dented this doctrine nor can they settle these debates once and for all like The Plot has for me.
I keep waiting for some one to prove it wrong but mostly
I get the fact that people don't understand "The Plot"
:think:
"The Plot" \ Mid Acts Disp makes exegesis simple.

the question is :

can you show how your exegesis is correct
and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?

I also really like "The Plot" by Bob.

Hilston (a poster here) did a critique on it, but I don't recall him pointing out any big problems that really grabbed me. There is a link to it in his signature in his posts on TOL.

EDIT: link found http://www.biblestudiesonline.info/TGF/topical/theplot.htm
Would be interesting for him to chime in here.

Hilston is also a mid-Acts-dispie btw, (I think he would agree with Bob in way more cases than not) and I wish he would write a book about it, he is brilliant on it.
 

Paulos

New member

way 2 go

Well-known member
I wish I had that book, but I don't.
So, it's hard for me to comment on what the book actually says.

But I have listened to several of the broadcasts of Enyart, and I deem him one worth listening to.

Perhaps you could give some of the highlight points he makes in the book to confirm the view.

key
circumcised= Jew under the law
uncircumcised= body of Christ (edited)

Mid Acts Disp would look at who wrote the book, Paul or one of the twelve.

next

who is it written to, Jews or gentiles

example : the rapture

here we have prophecy of jews in the kingdom going through the tribulation no rapture here

Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
Mat 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

tribulation expected immediately, still no mention of the rapture

Mat 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Israel cut off , plan A. stopped plan B. enacted

Jer 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.

Israel's religious leaders ,Paul and the Romans did such a good job at persecuting the kingdom church,

Israel was cut off.

Act_8:3 But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison

then Paul was saved Act_9:4-11

body of Christ started by Paul.
the twelve do not use the term "body of Christ"

Co_12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

the twelve to the remaining kingdom & Paul to the gentiles

Gal_2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised

Eph 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,


the gospels preach taken away in judgement

Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
Mat 13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 24:37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.


paul preaches the rapture

1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

tried to keep this short .:nono:
this is so little of what "The Plot" has to say
about the rapture
I hope this gives you an idea of what the book is like. tons of detail:up:
 
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Paulos

New member
key
body=uncircumcised
kingdom=circumcised

If the kingdom refers to the circumcised, then why did Jesus say to the circumcised that the kingdom would be taken away from them and given to another nation who would bring forth its fruits (Matthew 21:43)?

Also, why does Paul refer to the "kingdom" some 14 times in his epistles to the Gentiles?
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
If the kingdom refers to the circumcised, then why did Jesus say to the circumcised that the kingdom would be taken away from them and given to another nation who would bring forth its fruits (Matthew 21:43)?

Also, why does Paul refer to the "kingdom" some 14 times in his epistles to the Gentiles?

sorry kingdom is my explanation not Mr Enyart
but in light of your point
circumcised= Jew under the law
uncircumcised= body of Christ
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Who wrote that? I'd like to hear or see them talk to Bob on the verses, and Bob doesn't say "grace came only through Paul". The guy who wrote it comes off as someone who has a bone to pick beyond just the topic, he is too insulting.

I agree

bottom of page

" Jesus himself preached grace"

Jesus never said the word grace
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Who wrote that? I'd like to hear or see them talk to Bob on the verses, and Bob doesn't say "grace came only through Paul". The guy who wrote it comes off as someone who has a bone to pick beyond just the topic, he is too insulting.

also he writes
" For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

These are the words of Jesus, and in these words he's teaching salvation through FAITH (believing); he's not teaching works!"




Joh 3:21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God."
 

Paulos

New member
I agree

bottom of page

" Jesus himself preached grace"

Jesus never said the word grace

1. What is your definition of the word "grace"?

2. While Jesus Himself is not directly quoted in the gospels as using the word "grace", we still find this in the gospel of John:

John 1:14, 1:16
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth...And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.​
 

Vaquero45

New member
Hall of Fame
I agree

bottom of page

" Jesus himself preached grace"

Jesus never said the word grace

Have to allow for Luke 4:22, Jesus with "gracious words", which is not at all opposed to the mid-Acts view to my knowledge, or the way Bob views salvation I think, but it surely suggests Jesus spoke of grace. I don't know anyone who would deny grace is involved in salvation in any dispensation. If anyone is saved at all, grace is involved.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So Paulos is teaching that Jesus taught grace and didn't teach grace at the same time you have to earn salvation. Got it.
 
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