Spitfire
New member
All sins represent contempt for God and God's will. When you lie, you demonstrate contempt for the same God who forbids theft, murder, adultery, idolatry...
toldailytopic: What type, or how many sins does it take to lose ones salvation?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Then no one is saved or can be saved, including you.
genuineoriginal
New member
Jesus talked about four types of responses to hearing the word of God:
Luke 8:11-18 11Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. 16No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. 17For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 18Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. |
Everyone seems to agree that the "way side" response refers to people that are not believers. They never believed the word they heard, and will not receive eternal life.
Everyone seems to agree that the "good ground" response refers to believers that hear the word of God, believe, and will receive eternal life.
The problem always comes in understanding the "among thorns" and "on the rock" responses.
OSAS seems to divide the two and say that "among thorns" responses will receive eternal life despite never bringing forth fruit because they believe but "on the rock" responses will not receive eternal life even though they once thought they believed.
An alternative is to understand that only the "way side" responses refers to unbelievers, but that the "among thorns" and "on the rock" responses refer to believers that will not receive the reward of eternal life when Jesus returns.
The "on the rock" believers are former Christians that walked away from the promise of eternal life because they stopped believing and rejected the Gospel. They do not receive eternal life, and their end is worse than when they were unbelievers.
2 Peter 2:20 20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. |
The "among thorns" believers are Christians that do not bring forth fruit. They do not receive eternal life and their end will be the same as unbelievers:
Matthew 7:19 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. |
With the fall of Adam, all men were condemned
With the fall of Adam, all men were condemned
With the fall of Adam, all men have fallen. The only redemption is through the mercy of Christ, which He bestows upon those whom the Father chose in Christ.
"It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God who shows mercy"
"Therefore, hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens."
"He does according to His will in the armies of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and no one can restrain His hand or say un to Him, 'What are you doing?' "
With the fall of Adam, all men were condemned
With the fall of Adam, all men have fallen. The only redemption is through the mercy of Christ, which He bestows upon those whom the Father chose in Christ.
"It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God who shows mercy"
"Therefore, hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens."
"He does according to His will in the armies of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and no one can restrain His hand or say un to Him, 'What are you doing?' "
It's not denying the Holy Spirit, but what the Holy Spirit testifies concerning Jesus.
Breathe
New member
Matthew 12:31-32
Jesus says that we can even speak against Him and be forgiven - but that we cannot blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
Where is this? Revelation 21 just says they have their part in the lake of fire.
During the millenial reign, yes.
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:duh:
What is the ministry of the Holy Spirit?
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me"
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to not believe what he says concerning Jesus.
Say whatever else you want that is contrary and continue to be wrong.
"Losing" salvation.
Prior to the dispensation of the Grace of God revealed to Paul people had to believe and do (faith + works). If they didn't do, then they could be cut-off from the promises and therefore lose their standing of being "nigh unto God". In effect...they would lose that position of salvation that they once had if they didn't follow the commandments and the Laws.
Afterwards we read Paul talking about being sealed. People have interpreted this to mean that people cannot lose their salvation. Once they have believed they are "trapped". There is no getting away...even if later you want to.
However, is it possible that it was an attempt to assure those Paul was preaching to that they didn't have to worry like the chosen people did in the previous dispensation? They don't have to worry about keeping the laws and commandments. They don't have to worry about having faith + works.
Is it possible that Paul wasn't saying that people cannot run away from God once they have run to Him...but rather Paul was saying that The Spirit has promised that he has sealed them in such a way that they don't have to worry about losing what they want like those in time past could?
Prior to the dispensation of the Grace of God revealed to Paul people had to believe and do (faith + works). If they didn't do, then they could be cut-off from the promises and therefore lose their standing of being "nigh unto God". In effect...they would lose that position of salvation that they once had if they didn't follow the commandments and the Laws.
Afterwards we read Paul talking about being sealed. People have interpreted this to mean that people cannot lose their salvation. Once they have believed they are "trapped". There is no getting away...even if later you want to.
However, is it possible that it was an attempt to assure those Paul was preaching to that they didn't have to worry like the chosen people did in the previous dispensation? They don't have to worry about keeping the laws and commandments. They don't have to worry about having faith + works.
Is it possible that Paul wasn't saying that people cannot run away from God once they have run to Him...but rather Paul was saying that The Spirit has promised that he has sealed them in such a way that they don't have to worry about losing what they want like those in time past could?
Nobody ever kept the Law, yet many had faith and received the promise after Christ was raised.
They are not "trapped", they are saved. Salvation is life. It's not your life.
No, Paul is saying that once life always life.
I know that no one ever kept the whole Law...but people were required to keep the Law and people did obey some of the Commandments of the Law in an attempt to do that which God told them to do. Failure to do so meant that they would be cut-off.
Abraham, Noah, David, Rahab, did not keep the Law. They had faith because they believed God. God never cut them off.
Cruciform
New member
...to lose one's justification? A single mortal sin.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Abraham and Noah lived prior to the dispensation of the giving of the Law so they could not have obeyed The Law.
If Israel did not keep the Law, then they would be cut-off. That doesn't mean that they didn't try to keep the Law and the Commandments and the Ordinances, etc...
Then everyone before the cross is in hell.
Just like everyone after the cross who says they are a Christian is guaranteed to go to heaven.
That makes no sense in light of your previous statement.
Faith is a gift that we receive when we believe the Gospel. Many who claim to be Christians have never believed the Gospel. They have no faith.
That was my point.
Everyone before the cross isn't in Hell because they didn't obey every single part of the Law. If they were, then I could just as easily say that everyone after the cross is in heaven because they profess to believe the Gospel (Acts 16:31). People often talk of OSAS as if it is a secret club that people can't escape from even if they want to.
All I am suggesting is that perhaps OSAS isn't as "rigid" as some say it is.