The Wrath of God

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Neither one of you understand the Gospel. You are both very religious.

You are both so preoccupied with your works and your obedience that you cannot see the forest for the trees. In Jesus Christ we have been sanctified, justified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we stand before God as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.
 

God's Truth

New member
Neither one of you understand the Gospel. You are both very religious.

You are both so preoccupied with your works and your obedience that you cannot see the forest for the trees. In Jesus Christ we have been sanctified, justified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we stand before God as complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

What you preach isn't a gospel at all.
 

clefty

New member
If you knew Paul, you wouldn't be saying what you say.
oh yeah?

Just like I said, they thought Paul broke their law:
the same jews from Asia which stirred up the people with the same false witness they intended to get poor stephen with...that he taught against the law...

27When the seven days were nearly over, some Jews from the province of Asia saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, 28shouting, “Fellow Israelites, help us! This is the man who teaches everyone everywhere against our people and our law and this place. And besides, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.” 29(They had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian in the city with Paul and assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple.)

I bolded the part where the author of Acts means to show it remains the same false witness and attempts to slander Paul as they assumed he did something without proof...

He had just finished a seven day vow to prove to the brother of Jesus that he did not teach a change in the law...

But nooooo...they still wished to arrest him and Paul in his defense reminded them IN HEBREW he was still a jew practicing and faithful...He spoke of Ananias a devout man according to the law in good testimony of all jews...who told Paul he was chosen to spread the gospel to ALL men...Ananias this devout and still faithful to the Law jew baptized washing away Paul’s sins calling on the Name of the Lord...

And Paul then relates returning to the temple to pray...and then tells of receiving instructions to depart to far away...and to the Gentiles...

That was it...the jews had heard enough...NOOOO not to the Goyim!!!

Round 2

the dispute went to whether resurrection was possible or not...well that went horribly wrong and jews plotted to kill poor Paul...so he skipped town with help...

NOT ONE CHARGE WAS PRESSED THAT HE TAUGHT THE LAW WAS CHANGED...

Think about it...




Jesus says observing days is worthless.
oh yeah? He instructed prayers the Sabbath be kept in the future...no fleeing to break it...no other commandment received such care...not even the temple was prayed for...or for prayers that people’s lives would be spared...

Nope just instructions they pray His Holy Sabbath would be kept...fleeing is not resting...hence breaking the still binding law...
 

God's Truth

New member
oh yeah?

the same jews from Asia which stirred up the people with the same false witness they intended to get poor stephen with...that he taught against the law...



I bolded the part where the author of Acts means to show it remains the same false witness and attempts to slander Paul as they assumed he did something without proof...

He had just finished a seven day vow to prove to the brother of Jesus that he did not teach a change in the law...

But nooooo...they still wished to arrest him and Paul in his defense reminded them IN HEBREW he was still a jew practicing and faithful...He spoke of Ananias a devout man according to the law in good testimony of all jews...who told Paul he was chosen to spread the gospel to ALL men...Ananias this devout and still faithful to the Law jew baptized washing away Paul’s sins calling on the Name of the Lord...

And Paul then relates returning to the temple to pray...and then tells of receiving instructions to depart to far away...and to the Gentiles...

That was it...the jews had heard enough...NOOOO not to the Goyim!!!

Round 2

the dispute went to whether resurrection was possible or not...well that went horribly wrong and jews plotted to kill poor Paul...so he skipped town with help...

NOT ONE CHARGE WAS PRESSED THAT HE TAUGHT THE LAW WAS CHANGED...

Think about it...




oh yeah? He instructed prayers the Sabbath be kept in the future...no fleeing to break it...no other commandment received such care...not even the temple was prayed for...or for prayers that people’s lives would be spared...

Nope just instructions they pray His Holy Sabbath would be kept...fleeing is not resting...hence breaking the still binding law...

You won't even accept the plain and simple truth that there is no scripture about praying for the Sabbath be kept.
 

clefty

New member
You won't even accept the plain and simple truth that there is no scripture about praying for the Sabbath be kept.

Yahushua makes quite clear that TWO PERIODS OF TIME will remain in the future time of trouble...1) winter time and 2) the Sabbath...and these long after His death burial and resurrection and ascension into heaven...and IN the New Covenant age

Now pray your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath...as Paul affirms that a Sabbath keeping remains for His people
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
What you preach isn't a gospel at all.

It is not a Gospel to you, because you don't believe it. You are to busy working for your salvation to see it. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled you to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. You are trying to do it yourself by your obedience to the law. You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.
 

God's Truth

New member
It is not a Gospel to you, because you don't believe it. You are to busy working for your salvation to see it. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled you to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. You are trying to do it yourself by your obedience to the law. You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.

You say one thing than another. You say I am not saved, then you say I had already been reconciled to God.

What a mess.
 

God's Truth

New member
Yahushua makes quite clear that TWO PERIODS OF TIME will remain in the future time of trouble...1) winter time and 2) the Sabbath...and these long after His death burial and resurrection and ascension into heaven...and IN the New Covenant age

Now pray your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath...as Paul affirms that a Sabbath keeping remains for His people

No matter how many times you say it does, it does not say to pray for the Sabbath.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
You say one thing than another. You say I am not saved, then you say I had already been reconciled to God.

What a mess.

You have been reconciled to God, but you have rejected that, because you want to reconcile yourself to God through your obedience to the law. You are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done for you in Jesus Christ.
 

God's Truth

New member
You have been reconciled to God, but you have rejected that, because you want to reconcile yourself to God through your obedience to the law. You are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done for you in Jesus Christ.

I do what Paul says to do.

You don't want to admit that Paul gives more commands than anybody in the New Testament.

You also are backwards because you say all are already saved and then become unsaved if they don't believe as you falsely believe.

Not all are saved and then get unsaved.

The Bible says all are condemned and then get saved if they believe and obey.

You are in a very bad situation with your false teachings.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I do what Paul says to do.

You don't want to admit that Paul gives more commands than anybody in the New Testament.

You also are backwards because you say all are already saved and then become unsaved if they don't believe as you falsely believe.

Not all are saved and then get unsaved.

The Bible says all are condemned and then get saved if they believe and obey.

You are in a very bad situation with your false teachings.



Paul was preaching to saved people as well as unsaved. For the unsaved there is the law that should bring them to Christ, Galatians 3:24.

The righteous man (Christian) does not need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. Because he is already justified by his faith.
 

clefty

New member
No matter how many times you say it does, it does not say to pray for the Sabbath.

That it should be kept...sure it does...when you pray that your flight be not on the Sabbath it is because it is to preserve the Sabbath...so there it is...no prayers the temple be spared...lives preserved but that the Sabbath remain a Holy day of rest...and worship

So both winter and Sabbath keeping were expected in the New Covenant age...imagine that...no wonder when the gentiles crowded the synagogues to hear more of what James referred to...Paul said come back next week SABBATH...and the whole town did...notice Paul did NOT say “come back tomorrow when we celebrate the resurrection” or “meet me for midweek services...or everyday!” But Paul was specific to come back next week Sabbath...and they did...
 

God's Truth

New member
Paul was preaching to saved people as well as unsaved. For the unsaved there is the law that should bring them to Christ, Galatians 3:24.

The righteous man (Christian) does not need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. Because he is already justified by his faith.

There is a new law. You just don't want to accept it.
 

God's Truth

New member
That it should be kept...sure it does...when you pray that your flight be not on the Sabbath it is because it is to preserve the Sabbath...so there it is...no prayers the temple be spared...lives preserved but that the Sabbath remain a Holy day of rest...and worship

So both winter and Sabbath keeping were expected in the New Covenant age...imagine that...no wonder when the gentiles crowded the synagogues to hear more of what James referred to...Paul said come back next week SABBATH...and the whole town did...notice Paul did NOT say “come back tomorrow when we celebrate the resurrection” or “meet me for midweek services...or everyday!” But Paul was specific to come back next week Sabbath...and they did...

The disciples preached the gospel everywhere. What do you think you have disproved?
 

clefty

New member
You need to clarify.

This:

Acts 24:14 (NKJV) - "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

Acts 25:8 - while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."

Until you understand what Paul died for...NO COMPROMISES...you will not be “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua”...

Carefully read in Paul's testimony before Agrippa chapter 26:20 “...and then to the Gentiles that they should repent, turn to God, and do works benefitting repentance. 21 FOR THESE REASONS THE JEWS seized me in the temple and tried to kill me.”

Nothing at all about destroying the Law or abolishing it or teaching it changed...but that it was given to Gentiles...

And then Paul concludes with the resurrection...again that was too much...

But still nothing about laws changed or destroyed...not a peep from the Jews during trial about him preaching against the Law...that was just false witness and slander to stir up the people...the charges remain 1) including the Goyim... 2) preaching the resurrection

How else could Acts conclude with Paul once again claiming to the leaders of the Jews chapter 28:17 “Men and brethren though I HAVE DONE NOTHING AGAINST OUR PEOPLE OR THE CUSTOMS OF OUR FATHERS, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans...”

Do you really think Paul could actually claim that innocence if as you insist he taught the Law was abolished, Sabbath no longer mattered and pork chops for everyone? SERIOUSLY?

The biggest irony is that the jews in Rome had not received letters from Judea concerning Paul nor had any BRETHREN (fellow believers) reported or spoken any evil of him...but that sect...you know the WAY they wanted to consult with Paul as it was the big news...a sect of faithful jews believing in One resurrected...

Using Moses and the prophets Paul reminds them ears are hard of hearing eyes have closed...but the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles...and they will hear it!

Why else where they gentiles crowding the synagogues on Sabbaths? Because Paul did not teach the Law was abolished but that they were to be let in...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Wake up religious people.

Jesus has ALREADY fulfilled the law and abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

You have ALREADY been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You are ALREADY complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.
 

clefty

New member
Wake up religious people.

Jesus has ALREADY fulfilled the law and abolished it, Ephesians 2:15.

You have ALREADY been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You are ALREADY complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.

Is why we wish to keep it...in gratitude for what was done...and despite false witness and slandering jewish lies claiming the new teaching was the Law was changed...abolished even...

Justified by faith indeed...His faithfulness to His faith...the one He created for His people the church in the wilderness
 

God's Truth

New member
This:

Acts 24:14 (NKJV) - "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

Acts 25:8 - while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all."

Right there, it proves you wrong. Paul says he doesn't offend Caesar. That means he obeys the law as set by Caesar, just like he obeys the law the Pharisees enforced.

Until you understand what Paul died for...NO COMPROMISES...you will not be “here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua”...

Carefully read in Paul's testimony before Agrippa chapter 26:20 “...and then to the Gentiles that they should repent, turn to God, and do works benefitting repentance. 21 FOR THESE REASONS THE JEWS seized me in the temple and tried to kill me.”

Nothing at all about destroying the Law or abolishing it or teaching it changed...but that it was given to Gentiles...
You are badly mistaken.
Paul preached circumcision was nothing, and many other such things.

And then Paul concludes with the resurrection...again that was too much...

What was too much?
But still nothing about laws changed or destroyed...not a peep from the Jews during trial about him preaching against the Law...that was just false witness and slander to stir up the people...the charges remain 1) including the Goyim... 2) preaching the resurrection

Paul said he didn't break the law.

Jesus himself preached that he forgave sins, something only God could do.

What do you think? Do you think Paul didn't preach forgiveness of sins through Jesus?

How else could Acts conclude with Paul once again claiming to the leaders of the Jews chapter 28:17 “Men and brethren though I HAVE DONE NOTHING AGAINST OUR PEOPLE OR THE CUSTOMS OF OUR FATHERS, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans...”

Do you really think Paul could actually claim that innocence if as you insist he taught the Law was abolished, Sabbath no longer mattered and pork chops for everyone? SERIOUSLY?

Acts 28:23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. 25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:

26 “‘Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

28 “Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”

30 For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. 31 He proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ—with all boldness and without hindrance!

The biggest irony is that the jews in Rome had not received letters from Judea concerning Paul nor had any BRETHREN (fellow believers) reported or spoken any evil of him...
but that sect...you know the WAY they wanted to consult with Paul as it was the big news...a sect of faithful jews believing in One resurrected...

Using Moses and the prophets Paul reminds them ears are hard of hearing eyes have closed...but the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles...and they will hear it!

Why else where they gentiles crowding the synagogues on Sabbaths? Because Paul did not teach the Law was abolished but that they were to be let in...

Paul preached against circumcision.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.


1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.


Paul taught that observing days and getting circumcised is worthless when it comes to salvation. The Jews tried to get the Christian Gentiles to do those things.

Paul says they are foolish and that Jesus was clearly portrayed as crucified.

When Jesus was crucified, all the purification/ceremonial works were nailed to the cross. A stumbling block to Jews who wanted to keep doing those things, and foolishness to the Gentiles, the Gentiles who were talked into observing special days and circumcision.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.


Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace
 
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