2 Timothy 2:15
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
2 Timothy 2:15
God's Truth
New member
You are not defending your beliefs, you are more like evading.
I answered your question. What more do you want?
God's Truth
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I want more explaining.
That's the best answer I can give you without doing a study on it, like BR.
Nang
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"The Way International" (heretical) belief:
" Trinity. The Way denies the Trinity doctrine and teaches a doctrine of God similar to the Arianism of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Technically, Way theology is called Dynamic Monarchianism (See Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, "Arianism," "Monarchianism"). They correctly believe that there is only one God, but wrongly conclude that God is limited to one Person. They believe that only the Father is God, denying the deity of Christ and the third Person, the Holy Spirit. According to The Way, the Father, ONLY, is the one true God. He created all things including Jesus and "holy spirit."
" Trinity. The Way denies the Trinity doctrine and teaches a doctrine of God similar to the Arianism of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Technically, Way theology is called Dynamic Monarchianism (See Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, "Arianism," "Monarchianism"). They correctly believe that there is only one God, but wrongly conclude that God is limited to one Person. They believe that only the Father is God, denying the deity of Christ and the third Person, the Holy Spirit. According to The Way, the Father, ONLY, is the one true God. He created all things including Jesus and "holy spirit."
glorydaz
Well-known member
SimpleMan77
New member
The Trinity
According to the writer of Hebrews, the Father was the one who spoke through the prophets.
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Removing some of the prepositional phrases, that verse says "God, who spake by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken by His Son". The One who spoke through Isaiah had a Son, making Him the Father.
So, in Isaiah the Father said "I created all things alone and by myself. There is none like me, with me, above me, or beside me". So how do we reconcile the fact that New Testament writings credit Jesus with being God, being the creator, being the Almighty, being the first and last? Very clear - He simply is Immanuel, the one God of the Old Testament, who became a man.
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According to the writer of Hebrews, the Father was the one who spoke through the prophets.
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Removing some of the prepositional phrases, that verse says "God, who spake by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken by His Son". The One who spoke through Isaiah had a Son, making Him the Father.
So, in Isaiah the Father said "I created all things alone and by myself. There is none like me, with me, above me, or beside me". So how do we reconcile the fact that New Testament writings credit Jesus with being God, being the creator, being the Almighty, being the first and last? Very clear - He simply is Immanuel, the one God of the Old Testament, who became a man.
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SimpleMan77
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The "word" was always simply that - the spoken word of God.
Psalms 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
That wasn't the second person in the Trinity being sent by the first person to heal them. How did God "create the worlds by Jesus Christ"? He sent His literal word and created things. That word became a "Him" in Bethlehem. The "Him" was the Almighty God, who became a man, yet never ceased being the omnipresent God who fills the universe.
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Psalms 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
That wasn't the second person in the Trinity being sent by the first person to heal them. How did God "create the worlds by Jesus Christ"? He sent His literal word and created things. That word became a "Him" in Bethlehem. The "Him" was the Almighty God, who became a man, yet never ceased being the omnipresent God who fills the universe.
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(Is. 9:6) is your biggest supporting verse...
I keep it at the Body, Soul and Spirit understanding now. This keeps it TriUne. I agree with you... and I see the LOGOS as the physical "Presence" of "The Father"... yet... the "Logos" is clearly the Son. And... the Son says He has to go away for the "Comforter... Holy Spirit" to come.
It would be wrong for me to say that I am "in the Father" as "The Son" is... but I can say I am "in the Son"... and thus the "(Romans 8:9 and Php. 1:19) is "in" me.
Anyhow... this thread is awesome!
- All Respect,
EE
SimpleMan77
New member
How do you explain Jesus saying to His disciples that He is with them, but will be in them (thus calling Himself the Holy Spirit)? Jesus also said, speaking of the Holy Spirit, "I will not leave you comfortless - I will come into you". Pretty plain that the gift of the Holy Spirit is Jesus Himself coming back to live inside His people.
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glorydaz
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"At various times and in diverse manner.." God spoke to the Prophets...the Word who was God from the beginning spoke to the Prophets. The ONE who spoke was the Lord God ....(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
"I created all things alone and by myself..." Merely stating there is no separation whatsoever in the Godhead. ONE God...indivisible. Which is why we see texts like this one, speaking of the Son.
Col. 1:12-17
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So you dispute John 1:1...He was God and was with God, and John 1:14?
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
That "word" He sent became a Him? How was it there was an US in Genesis 1?
John was not a Greek philosopher he was a Jewish fisherman and the Hebrew concept of the Memra did not mean the Greek logos. The Memra is the effective power of God, it was the effective power of God that became flesh and dwelt among us. The Bible (the word) did not create the universe. The Memra did.
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SimpleMan77
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The Trinity
Clearly "God who spoke, has a son". If the Trinity is speaking in Isaiah, then Jesus is the the Son of the Father, the Son of the Son, and the Son of the Holy Ghost. Is there 4?
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Clearly "God who spoke, has a son". If the Trinity is speaking in Isaiah, then Jesus is the the Son of the Father, the Son of the Son, and the Son of the Holy Ghost. Is there 4?
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Memra? What's that?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Because they all exist at the same time and together...as ONE God.
2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
We see here mentioned the grace of Christ the Son, the love of God the Father, and the fellowship or communion of the Holy Spirit. All Three are present at the same time.
SimpleMan77
New member
The Word (an "it") became flesh (a He) at Bethlehem. God doesn't dwell in time, so he can take the "He" that His Word became in time, and speak back into history, referring to His spoken word as a He, e.g, "By whom He created the worlds".
Here's an example. If I could use a magic wand to create a million dollars, then turn my magic wand into an assistant named Jack, it would be perfectly honest to say "I used Jack to create this money".
Taking it a step farther, if I was an invisible spirit using the wand, then I turned the wand into a man named Jack, and indwelt him (I actually became Jack), I could say
1) Jack created this Money
2) I (as a spirit) created the money
3) I used the wand to create the money
4) I used Jack to create the money
All would be accurate.
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glorydaz
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I didn't mention the Bible once....didn't even suggest the Word (who was God) was speaking of the written word of God (Bible). So your point?
Lon
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Basically that God expresses His being, to man through His characteristic of power and presence called God's Memra
I think, in a nutshell, he is saying that the Jews knew that appearances of God (memra of God) were God who is Spirit, showing Himself to man as Himself, another way and thus the Lord Jesus Christ was always God and God's expression, even before there was anyone to express to (man).
I think the point being, even a Unit-arian cannot argue with Hebrews regarding the matter: Jews (and Christians) viewed theophanies (Memra, God appearances) as God revealed to men (flesh). Therefore, John, a Jew, following clear Jewish pattern, necessarily was calling the Memra (form of God) God Himself. -Lon