The Trinity

The Trinity


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God's Truth

New member
Wrong!!! Read the verses in their proper context rather than stripping away the individuality of the members of the Godhead!

I read the scriptures thoroughly.

There aren't three different Gods making one God.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Deuteronomy 4:35 You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.

Deuteronomy 4:39 Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
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I read the scriptures thoroughly.

There aren't three different Gods making one God.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Deuteronomy 4:35 You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.

Deuteronomy 4:39 Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Never said that. Are you sure English is not your second language. Three different persons make up the one God.
 

God's Truth

New member
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jesus says that to his disciples.

Jesus says the Spirit of truth. See John 14:17.

The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. JESUS IS THE TRUTH. John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus is the One who was living with them.

Jesus is the One who will be in them.

Jesus tells them, “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”

Jesus comes to us and lives with those he saves.


Jesus said that he would send another comforter, the Holy Spirit. He also said that he would not leave them as orphans that HE WILL COME TO THEM.

John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

This is at the time Jesus told them that he would send them another comforter. Jesus explains to them that it is HE.
 

God's Truth

New member
Never said that. Are you sure English is not your second language. Three different persons make up the one God.

The trinity doctrine and you say they are not each other, so that makes three different making one.

The scriptures plainly say there is no one like God.

Since there is no one like God, then how do you get there are three that are alike?
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The trinity doctrine and you say they are not each other, so that makes three different making one.

The scriptures plainly say there is no one like God.

Since there is no one like God, then how do you get there are three that are alike?

Read the scriptures and find out for yourself.

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

God's Truth

New member
Read the scriptures and find out for yourself.

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I believe there are three, and the three are One and the same.
 

SimpleMan77

New member
The Father and then the Son in the theophanies. That would be my best answer without a thorough study.

Would this be the Father speaking?

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


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freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Git bit by the Trinity Bug?..........

Git bit by the Trinity Bug?..........

Is the Trinity biblical?
Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

The term 'biblical' wouldnt necessarily give any doctrine or concept any validity since there can be manmade beliefs or dogmas preconceived to which scriptures are employed to support them, so these are prefigured and 'interpreted' to prove or support such doctrines. Anyone can claim something is 'biblical', but such may be arbitrary, inconsequential.

The Trinity is a relational concept, assumption, model, modal understanding of a functioning community, a divine Godhead consisting of 3 aspects, entities, personalities, or what have you. There is no proof for its existence beyond its own logic, reasoning or assumed construct, or how that trinities exist in relational patterns in nature and the cosmos. This is all it is besides what internal spiritual proof one might claim as personal religious experience with "the Trinity", a subjective experience. - all else is relative, analogy, allegorical, correlary.

While I choose to adopt a more Unitarian Christology with liberal inclusions and allowances, with Catholic and evangelical believers on the board here, there are texts which speak of a Trinity and other trinities within the cosmos that transcend the traditional-orthodox Christian concept of such, so it could hardly be said to have a monopoly on the concept. And still in order to maintain its 'monotheism', it contends for 'one essence' even though this essence diversifies into 3 distinct personalities. The quandary is the great effort given to assume all personalities are God, while simultaneously claiming distinct personalities and not to confuse them! - but the con-fusion for some remains.

One might be better off being a pure monist or pantheist....since all is really made from the universal essence of Spirit anyways, no matter its form or personality. The higher cosmic beings, gods/devas, angels, sons of God, etc. are but personifications(offsprings) of God, his various qualities and attributes, individual expressions of divinity. On a subtle or spiritual level, all is one. All forms and substances derive from one original universal essence.

Therefore as a pure spiritualist, grounded in both a kind of monotheism and a more liberal monism (since All is One anyways)....a trinity only serves as a relational concept, theoretical, subjective. It exists nowhere else but your own consciousness, whose meaning and value is determined thereby.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Early Trinitarian Quotes
by Matt Slick (Carm.org)

There are cult groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, Christadelphians, etc.) who deny the Trinity and state that the doctrine was not mentioned until the 4th Century until after the time of the Council of Nicea (325). This council "was called by Emperor Constantine to deal with the error of Arianism [see page 45] which was threatening the unity of the Christian Church."

The following quotes show that the doctrine of the Trinity was indeed alive-and-well before the Council of Nicea:

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

"O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.

"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: . . . one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all . . . '" (Against Heresies X.l)

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.

"If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority . . . There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).

"For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)

"Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification . . . " (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).
Your quotes are suspect. Justin was not trinitarian. Read his dialogue with Trypho and tell me if you still think Justin belongs in that group...

Tertullian was trinitarian. But also a hereric that left the main to follow a charismatic cult leader.

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Rosenritter

New member
Would this be the Father speaking?

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


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Who created all things? New testament tells us Jesus is the creator of all.

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God's Truth

New member
Who created all things? New testament tells us Jesus is the creator of all.

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All things were created by God the Father, Malachi 2:10
All things were created by Jesus, John 1:3.

God the Father is through all the saved, Ephesians 4:6
Jesus is through all the saved, John 17:26.

All things are from God the Father, 1 Corinthians 8:6.

All things are from Jesus, Romans 11:36.
 
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