The Trinity

[God's Truth]

But you say that you, gt, obey ALL of Jesus' commandments. :nono:



You, gt, are the only one who says that you OBEY ALL of Jesus' commandments and then when asked gives these nonsensical answers.



You, gt, have never and I repeat never OBEYED ALL of Jesus' commandments; however, you, gt, say: I, gt, follow all of Jesus teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says....I, gt, obey everything Jesus says....[/B]"

Have you repented of boasting that you obey all of Jesus' commandments when you once and again say that you cannot?

I obey everything Jesus commands everyone.

What you speak is nonsensical folly.

Now tell me what Jesus said when he walked the earth that you say we have to obey.

I have been waiting for you to answer that one, but you hide from it.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Abraham should have never gone to Hagar.

This is interesting and I might agree.

Adam prophesied that a man would leave his mother and father to cleave to his wife and they would become one flesh.

Makes me wonder if this is why Sarai could say she might get children from Abram taking Hagar to wife.

Did they know what Adam had said?

If so, should Abram have figured that Sarai was his own bowels and waited?

After all, Adam did say wife not wives.

On the flip side, if they did not know what Adam said, is that knowledge written into all of us at birth?

Or was it both?

Or were they maybe leaning on their own understanding?

 

[glorydaz]

This is interesting and I might agree.

Adam prophesied that a man would leave his mother and father to cleave to his wife and they would become one flesh.

Makes me wonder if this is why Sarai could say she might get children from Abram taking Hagar to wife.

Did they know what Adam had said?

If so, should Abram have figured that Sarai was his own bowels and waited?

After all, Adam did say wife not wives.

On the flip side, if they did not know what Adam said, is that knowledge written into all of us at birth?

Or was it both?

Or were they maybe leaning on their own understanding?

He knew....even Pharaoh knew.

Genesis 12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?​

I think it was the fact that they waited so long.....fifteen years, and since it was accepted in the culture, Sarah felt she was being helpful by offering up Hagar. Abram hadn't been specifically told, at that time, that the son would come from Sarah. "Leaning on their own understanding" sounds about right to me.

It was certainly a promise that required great hope "against all hope" from both of them.

Heb. 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.​

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I think it was the fact that they waited so long.....fifteen years, and since it was accepted in the culture, Sarah felt she was being helpful by offering up Hagar.

You mean Sarai?

Her name got changed too.

Genesis 17

15Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name.

16"I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her."…

 

[Bright Raven]

I obey everything Jesus commands everyone.

What you speak is nonsensical folly.

Now tell me what Jesus said when he walked the earth that you say we have to obey.

I have been waiting for you to answer that one, but you hide from it.

What did He ask the rich young ruler? What was Jesus reply after He answered?

 

[lifeisgood]

Here is the promise...

Genesis 15 King James Version (KJV)

1 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


Where in the above was he told to wait?

Where in there did the Lord told Abraham that any woman would do?

 

[lifeisgood]

This is interesting and I might agree.

Adam prophesied that a man would leave his mother and father to cleave to his wife and they would become one flesh.

Makes me wonder if this is why Sarai could say she might get children from Abram taking Hagar to wife.

Did they know what Adam had said?

If so, should Abram have figured that Sarai was his own bowels and waited?

After all, Adam did say wife not wives.

On the flip side, if they did not know what Adam said, is that knowledge written into all of us at birth?

Or was it both?

Or were they maybe leaning on their own understanding?

I do not believe Abraham took Hagar as wife, for Hagar herself speaks to the angel about "my mistress Sarai".

When the angel of the LORD appears to Hagar he addresses her as "Hagar, servant of Sarai", not as "Hagar, wife of Abram". The angel gives her the command, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her".

So, again, from where I am sitting, Abraham should have never gone to Hagar and should have waited for God's time and he didn't. He should also not have listened to his wife Sarah to go to Hagar.

Good example of us getting impatient thinking that what we heard from the Lord is taking too long.

If we hear from the Lord, we are to wait for the fulfillment of what we heard. We should never do what someone comes and tells us to do, except if it is in agreement with what we have heard from the Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

You mean Sarai?

Her name got changed too.

Genesis 17

15Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name.

16"I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her."…

Yep, but I always remember the spelling of Sarah, and never the spelling of Sarai.

I get careless way too often.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I do not believe Abraham took Hagar as wife, for Hagar herself speaks to the angel about "my mistress Sarai".

When the angel of the LORD appears to Hagar he addresses her as "Hagar, servant of Sarai", not as "Hagar, wife of Abram". The angel gives her the command, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her".

Did Jacob's concubines stop being his first two wives' servants?

Genesis 16:3-4. Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.


Genesis 16:5. Then Sarai said to Abram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord judge between you and me.”

Genesis 16:6. So Abram said to Sarai, “Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.” And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence.

Genesis 30

1
And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
2
And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel; and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?
3
And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.
4
And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.
5
And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.
6
And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.
7
And Bilhah Rachel's maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son.
8
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naph'tali.
9
¶ When Le'ah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife.

So, again, from where I am sitting, Abraham should have never gone to Hagar and should have waited for God's time and he didn't. He should also not have listened to his wife Sarah to go to Hagar.

Good example of us getting impatient thinking that what we heard from the Lord is taking too long.

If we hear from the Lord, we are to wait for the fulfillment of what we heard. We should never do what someone comes and tells us to do, except if it is in agreement with what we have heard from the Lord.

Okay.

But from where I'm sitting you can't get there just because the angel referred to Hagar as Sarai's servant.

 

[God's Truth]

What did He ask the rich young ruler? What was Jesus reply after He answered?

Most people are not rich young rulers standing before Jesus in the flesh.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Most people are not rich young rulers standing before Jesus in the flesh.

Do you think that God has different standards for rich young rulers than He does for general believers?

If so, please show where these different standards are in the Bible and explain them.

 

[Bright Raven]

Most people are not rich young rulers standing before Jesus in the flesh.

Why not answer the question?

 

[God's Truth]

Do you think that God has different standards for rich young rulers than He does for general believers?

If so, please show where these different standards are in the Bible and explain them.

I can hardly believe that you don't know.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I can hardly believe that you don't know.

GT, is your IQ so low that you can't even comprehend the concept of someone asking a question not to discover the answer but because they know the answer and want to hear what someone else's answer is?

I'm not asking because I don't know, I am asking because I want to know your answer.

So here is my question again, please answer it:

Do you think that God has different standards for rich young rulers than He does for general believers?

If so, please show where these different standards are in the Bible and explain them.

 

[God's Truth]

GT, is your IQ so low that you can't even comprehend the concept of someone asking a question not to discover the answer but because they know the answer and want to hear what someone else's answer is?

I'm not asking because I don't know, I am asking because I want to know your answer.

So here is my question again, please answer it:

Do you think that God has different standards for rich young rulers than He does for general believers?

If so, please show where these different standards are in the Bible and explain them.

You are the one with the low IQ. What I said proves that I do know there are differences and you need to show you know by posting them. If you don't think there are differences then just ask me to explain the truth to you and admit you don't know.

 

[lifeisgood]

Did Jacob's concubines stop being his first two wives' servants?

Genesis 16:3-4. Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.


Genesis 16:5. Then Sarai said to Abram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord judge between you and me.”

Genesis 16:6. So Abram said to Sarai, “Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.” And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence.

Genesis 30

1
And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
2
And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel; and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?
3
And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.
4
And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.
5
And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.
6
And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.
7
And Bilhah Rachel's maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son.
8
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naph'tali.
9
¶ When Le'ah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife.




Okay.

But from where I'm sitting you can't get there just because the angel referred to Hagar as Sarai's servant.

Abraham: 'Hagar, here's your son, and here is a piece of bread and a cup of water, and go away. That's what Sarah, my wife said that I, Abraham, am to do.' (paraphrasing)

Anywhere in the story of Abraham, Sarai/Sarah, and Hagar, ever, and I mean ever, did Abraham go to the Lord and talk to Him about the situation, before he obeyed Sarai/Sarah?

Good husband Abraham was to Hagar, wouldn't you say?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Abraham: 'Hagar, here's your son, and here is a piece of bread and a cup of water, and go away. That's what Sarah, my wife said that I, Abraham, am to do.' (paraphrasing)

Anywhere in the story of Abraham, Sarai/Sarah, and Hagar, ever, and I mean ever, did Abraham go to the Lord and talk to Him about the situation, before he obeyed Sarai/Sarah?

Looks like the Lord came to Abraham as seems to be the usual way of it.

Abraham did not immediately follow Sarah's request.

He was troubled about it and the Lord came to him and told him to do as Sarah said.

Genesis 21:8-21

8The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast.

9But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking,

10and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."

11The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son.

12But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.

13I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring."

14Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy.

Good husband Abraham was to Hagar, wouldn't you say?

Other than having to put up with Sarah's temper, she might have been glad she didn't have to have sex with and hang out around an ole dude all the time.:idunno:

 

[lifeisgood]

Looks like the Lord came to Abraham as seems to be the usual way of it.

Abraham did not immediately follow Sarah's request.

He was troubled about it and the Lord came to him and told him to do as Sarah said.

Spoiler

Genesis 21:8-21

8The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast.

9But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking,

10and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."

11The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son.

12But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.

13I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring."

14Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy.

After the fact, yes.
Abraham loved the works of his hands --- Ishmael --- and he was loathed to let him go.

Had Abraham gone to the Lord BEFORE he obeyed Sarai/Sarah's 'help', he would not have to have 'fretted' about the works of his hands.

Other than having to put up with Sarah's temper, she might have been glad she didn't have to have sex with and hang out around an ole dude all the time.:idunno:

Hagar wasn't complaining about having to have sex with and hang out around an ole dude all the time, before the promised son had not yet appeared, was she.

Good husband Abraham was to Hagar, wouldn't you say? :idunno:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

After the fact, yes.
Abraham loved the works of his hands --- Ishmael --- and he was loathed to let him go.

Had Abraham gone to the Lord BEFORE he obeyed Sarai/Sarah's 'help', he would not have to have 'fretted' about the works of his hands.

That's not what you asked me.

Hagar wasn't complaining about having to have sex with and hang out around an ole dude all the time, before the promised son had not yet appeared, was she.

Good husband Abraham was to Hagar, wouldn't you say? :idunno:

Irrelevant.

 

[lifeisgood]

That's not what you asked me.

I asked you: Anywhere in the story of Abraham, Sarai/Sarah, and Hagar, ever, and I mean ever, did Abraham go to the Lord and talk to Him about the situation, before he obeyed Sarai/Sarah?

And you answered with 'after' the fact, facts.

Irrelevant.

Exactly as your irrelevant: 'Other than having to put up with Sarah's temper, she might have been glad she didn't have to have sex with and hang out around an ole dude all the time.'

====

As I read somewhere:

1. Sarai loses all hope of God's promise being fulfilled in her life. God has spoken to her husband saying, "A son will come from your own body." Sarai must have thought, "God only spoke to my husband; He didn't speak to me. My time is gone; I am beyond the age of childbearing. What should I do?" She counsels her husband to sleep with her Egyptian maidservant Hagar. "I will build a family through her."
2. No questions asked. No consultation with the Lord. Just do what the neighbors do. "He slept with Hagar, and she conceived."
3. "When Hagar knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress [Sarai]." The rivalry begins.
4. Sarai blames Abram for this development: "You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering . . . May the Lord judge between you and me."
5. Abram shamelessly absolves himself from all responsibility, washing his hands of the whole affair. "Your servant is in your hands . . . Do with her whatever you think best." [What a good husband was Abraham to Hagar, wouldn't you say.]
6. "Then Sarai mistreated Hagar." Anger, frustration, violence, either verbal, physical, or both, rule the day.
7. Hagar fled from Sarai her mistress. Abram was chosen to be the instrument of blessing to all mankind. Hagar fled from her only source of blessing.

What a list of missteps:
-Take matters in your own hands. (Sarai)
-Do not bother to consult the Lord. (Abram)
-Be proud. Become a rival. (Hagar)
-Blame someone else for your mistake. (Sarai)
-Refuse to accept responsibility for your child. (Abram)
-Give way to anger. Be abusive. (Sarai)
-Do not repent. Run away. (Hagar)

What an example Abraham, Sarai/Sarah, Hagar left us NOT to follow.