The Trinity

[JudgeRightly]

You seemed so upset that I gave scripture that shows you that you said something wrong.

I'm upset that you clearly can't follow a conversation very well, and that it hinders your ability to understand even the simplest of verses, let alone use them appropriately.

Your verse did not show I was wrong, it showed that your understanding of my post was wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you not see how you're contradicting yourself? First you say Jesus says that the Father always hears Him, as if He's a separate entity, then you say "God the Father came as a Son of Man in the Flesh." make up your mind, Is the Father the same entity as the Son? Or is He a different entity than the Son? He can't be both.

There are three. Go think about that some more; and, while you are at it, accept the scriptures that say the Lord is the Spirit.

 

[Right Divider]

There are three.

Three WHAT?

 

[God's Truth]

Three WHAT?

There isn't three distinct/different Gods, as the trinitarians teach.

And, Jesus is God, unlike the way many others teach.

Jesus ONLY SAYS what the Father says.

Jesus only DOES what the Father does.

They have to be the exact same.

One even means the same.

There is only one Spirit.

God the Father who is invisible and lives in unapproachable light.

Jesus the Son who is God the Father with a body.

The Holy Spirit that is without limit and goes forth from the Father and the Son.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus doesn't live in the saved by proxy. Jesus himself lives in the saved. The Father Himself lives in the saved. You try to explain how that is done when we are GIVEN ONE SPIRIT.

God the Father says there is no one like Him or besides Him.

The trinitarians say Jesus is beside the Father and like Him.

After I was saved, I was a trinitarian.

When it came time for me to defend my beliefs, I couldn't do it because of my testimony of when I was saved.

Jesus saved me and put himself inside me.

We are given the Holy Spirit when we are saved.

We are given only ONE SPIRIT when we are saved.

How is God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit distinct/different when there is only One?

God is Spirit. There is only One Spirit.

 

[Nihilo]

There isn't three distinct/different Gods, as the trinitarians teach.

That's not the Trinity. Any so-called Trinitarian who teaches that is not teaching the Trinity.

They have to be the exact same.

In one sense yes, and in another sense no. The Trinity.

There is only one Spirit.

Right.

God the Father who is invisible and lives in unapproachable light.

While this is correct, He the Father is not the Spirit.

Jesus the Son who is God the Father with a body.

No.

 

[Rosenritter]

This is my vindication and that @God's Truth liked it should make much clear. You have just called Christ's sacrifice (Self Righteous Suicide)

Yes, I rebuke you for spitting on Jesus! You have turned the free grace of God into a licence to sin.

That is what grace is to you. It isn't forgiveness for your life debt of sin, it is an okay for sinners to sin. You define it as such and now have those verses aligned against you.

I retain that you are a deceiver and see that you are wicked in expressing what God did for us. You should be reported for this post, but it is the reveal of your hearts wicked thoughts and your unmasking is sufficient.

7Spirit, Jesus himself said that no man takes his life from him, but that he laid it down willingly. And in another place he said that if he was so willing, seven legions of angels would intervene to keep him from the guards and the cross. I didn't see Pops or anyone else calling this "suicide" because that term would be disrespectful. You're the one calling this suicide...

 

[God's Truth]

That's not the Trinity. Any so-called Trinitarian who teaches that is not teaching the Trinity.
In one sense yes, and in another sense no. The Trinity.
Right.
While this is correct, He the Father is not the Spirit.
No.

Nothing new same old mere denials and not scriptures.

 

[Rosenritter]

Yes but a Trinitarian believes all sorts of things about a trinity which are not biblical.

For starters they say Jesus was alive in his entire person with God before He was born, and that He is also the creator.

LA

I would also agree with those points, but for reason that those things are derived directly from scripture, not because they were contained within a Trinity doctrinal package.

1. Jesus was alive before he was born of woman. You'll find that even our JW representative NWL doesn't fight on that point but agrees with us here, and even if you wish to accuse me of being a closet Trinitarian, that certainly couldn't apply to NWL.

2.Jesus is the creator - aside from the multiple ways that the scripture tells us that Jesus is the LORD of Hosts, the Almighty, it also tells us with less steps that of all things created, not a thing of those was made except by Jesus. More than one place, but the gospel of John 1st chapter comes to mind.

 

[Rosenritter]

'Son of God' is understood among the entirety of the New Testament as 'God the Son'- I'm about tired of these recreations and otherwise nonsense of Jesus' divinity_

Those two terms actually have different connotations, which is why the objection has been made of equivocating the two for quite a few centuries. "God the Son" isn't a biblical term, but implies that God is a multitude of different people.

One can use scripture to show that the Son of God is God, with the attributes of God including immortality and neither beginning nor end of days, and frankly why resort to hammering and intimidation when one can use a scriptural argument with precision instead? Yes, it won't prove "multiple people" but shouldn't you be content with proving what's biblical, rather than what's forced?

 

[Rosenritter]

I'm sorry you don't like the way I worded it.

But if the traditional Trinitsrian doctrine is true as man would have you believe then it means the eternal god sent himself to be a blood sacrifice for himself so man can not change from faith and knowingly continue in sin.

If that isn't what you believe then correct me.

You can take prices and parts of my words and make it seem how ever you want. It doesn't change the truth that begotten isn't eternal. It doesn't change the fact that eternal means without death. It doesn't change the fact the the Christ of GOD called himself the son of man because it explains that He, in flesh, was not the utter fullness of GOD.

NOW REPORT ME BECAUSE YOU CANT EXPLAIN ME AWAY WITHOUT TJROWING OUT YOUR SPOON FED LIES AMD IDOL WORSHIP.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

I thought eternal meant "never ending" not "without death." It's my understanding that one that has life in himself can die as many times as they like and still bring themselves back to life.

Joh 5:26
(26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


Joh 2:19-22
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
(22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


1Ti 6:13-16
(13) I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Rev 1:17-18
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Add these together, and Jesus has life in himself (as the Father), he raised himself from the dead (and elsewhere it also says raised by God), as King of kings and Lord of lords he only hath immortality, and he was, and is, and always shall be. That sounds like "eternal" to me.

 

[Nihilo]

Nothing new same old mere denials and not scriptures.

Same answers to your same (dumb) questions, yes.

 

[Right Divider]

There isn't three distinct/different Gods, as the trinitarians teach.

So the "Jesus obeyer" GT lies about what the trinity doctrine teaches.....

Lying is a sin GT. You need to REPENT and STOP SINNING.

And, Jesus is God, unlike the way many others teach.

Who are these "others"? Perhaps you should name them.

Jesus ONLY SAYS what the Father says.

Three WHAT?

Jesus only DOES what the Father does.

Three WHAT?

They have to be the exact same.

Three WHAT?

One even means the same.

Three WHAT?

There is only one Spirit.

Three WHAT?

God the Father who is invisible and lives in unapproachable light.

Three WHAT?

Jesus the Son who is God the Father with a body.

Three WHAT?

The Holy Spirit that is without limit and goes forth from the Father and the Son.

Three WHAT?

 

[NWL]

It doesn't say that He is, but it does call Him

Now Jacob heard the words of Laban’s sons, saying, “Jacob has taken away all that was our father’s, and from what was our father’s he has acquired all this wealth.”And Jacob saw the countenance of Laban, and indeed it was not favorable toward him as before. Then the Lord said to Jacob, “Return to the land of your fathers and to your family, and I will be with you.” - Genesis 31:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:1-3&version=NKJV
And
“And it happened, at the time when the flocks conceived, that I lifted my eyes and saw in a dream, and behold, the rams which leaped upon the flocks were streaked, speckled, and gray-spotted.Then the Angel of God spoke to me in a dream, saying, ‘Jacob.’ And I said, ‘Here I am.’And He said, ‘Lift your eyes now and see, all the rams which leap on the flocks are streaked, speckled, and gray-spotted; for I have seen all that Laban is doing to you.I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed the pillar and where you made a vow to Me. Now arise, get out of this land, and return to the land of your family.’” - Genesis 31:10-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:10-13&version=NKJV

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God.And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.”Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. - Exodus 3:1-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus3:1-6&version=NKJV

The "Angel of the LORD" is Jesus, preincarnate. And He claims to be God, because He is God.

The angels were just that, angels. The angel(s) spoke as God because they were conveying the message of God. It's not foreign for bible writers to make a messenger of someone speak as if he is the person who sent the messenger. It would make no sense for the bible writers to say that an angel came if the angel was in fact God, the writer would merely say God came. The Hebrew word for angel in the OT is "Malak", malak literally means "messenger", there was no word for "angel" in ancient Hebrew. To be a "messenger of God" as you showed in Genesis, Exodus and other accounts, demands by default that the messenger be someone separate from who's message the messenger is proclaiming. God cannot be his own messenger.

Furthermore Jesus was NOT the Angel mentioned in those accounts. Hebrews 1:1,2 clearly states that God spoke by means of Jesus only in the last days, being the 1CE, and that he spoke by other means in the OT, thus your understanding and reasoning is wrong.

(Hebrews 1:1, 2) "..Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2  And now in these final days he has spoken to us by means of his Son.."

 

[God's Truth]

So the "Jesus obeyer" GT lies about what the trinity doctrine teaches.....

Lying is a sin GT. You need to REPENT and STOP SINNING.


Who are these "others"? Perhaps you should name them.


Three WHAT?


Three WHAT?


Three WHAT?


Three WHAT?


Three WHAT?


Three WHAT?


Three WHAT?


Three WHAT?

How many times do you have to be shown?

Invisible and with a physical body.

 

[Right Divider]

How many times do you have to be shown?

Invisible and with a physical body.

That would still be only TWO.

You said:

There are three.

Three WHAT?

Why can't you just answer that SIMPLE question?

P.S. I know why, because you're a deceiver.

 

[glorydaz]

Correction: Paul is speaking about the Law verses the Spirit.

The letter is literally the Law. There is no "spirit of the law."

Remember what I said earlier? Letter and Law are synonymous.

No, I don't remember what you have said, but I don't really agree that the letter and law are synonymous. The law has always included both the letter and the spirit. It's a difference of ministration. The letter of the law is a matter of physical action, but the spirit of the law is an attitude of the heart and mind.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.​

 

[glorydaz]

Why, big mouth?

Is that supposed to be a question directed at me?:comeout:

 

[glorydaz]

I'll tell you what's antichrist, to teach that we can still sin even wilfully, and be saved regardless!

That's not the truth!

No, that isn't antichrist.

Nor is it anything I see anyone teaching. :baby:

 

[glorydaz]

Who denies He came in the flesh?

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
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Okay, He didn't kill himself bit was murdered by the hands of man willingly.

So how does god die at all?

He takes on human flesh....born of woman, and that body of flesh is pierced and dies. "They shall look upon me whom they have pierced," :readthis: Zech. 12

You people act as if I deny that the Holy Spirit filled the Christ of GOD, because I say the man Jesus wasn't literally the utter fullness of GOD as he was man. All scripture verifies this if you cared to see past your own force fed lies you so eagerly and naively devour up.

The natural man cannot understand spiritual things. :sigh:

Colossians 2:8-10
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
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