The Trinity

The Trinity

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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
NWL said:
This is gold!! :chuckle: I show a clear example how your understanding is wrong and your reply back is basically "interesting, but I'm going to ignore it". You can't just dismiss this point and try and excuse yourself by saying its nit relevant, it's entirely relevant.

Your whole argument hinges on the fact that you believe Moses litreally saw God because it says face-to-face, I objected to this stating the term face-to-face doesn't have to be a litreal seeing of God, I showed you clear undeniable proof and you outright rejected it.
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No, it is irrelevant because you skewed the context:

Deu 5:4
(4) The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

Is clearly different than this:

Exo 33:11
(11) And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

"Face to face out of the midst of fire" is a ton different than "face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."

Seriously, is that what you want to divert the argument to now? Why do you suppose that the writer of Exodus clarified what HE meant by "face to face" with "as a man speaketh unto his friend?" When friends speak to each other (before the days of Skype and cell phones) it meant they literally sat down and say each other with their eyes and with their faces. The author couldn't have made it more literal.

Again, do you know the difference between "face to face, out of the midst of fire" and "face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend?"
 
V

Veritas veritate

New member
Right Divider said:
The Bible does NOT say that the human body is part of the image of God.

The term "image of God" has to do with certain aspects of His nature and NOT everything about us.
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Genesis disagrees with you...

Genesis one tells us that God said that He would make/create man in his image.... Then you have Genesis two which tells us how God created man in his image.

And the Eternal God formed man (the body) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the spirit of life and man became a living soul. ~ Genesis 2:7

Furthermore, an image (by definition something seen), necessitates a body which can be seen... This is why there are Christophanies within the Old Testament.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Rosenritter said:
I thought eternal meant "never ending" not "without death." It's my understanding that one that has life in himself can die as many times as they like and still bring themselves back to life.

Joh 5:26
(26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


Joh 2:19-22
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
(22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


1Ti 6:13-16
(13) I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Rev 1:17-18
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Add these together, and Jesus has life in himself (as the Father), he raised himself from the dead (and elsewhere it also says raised by God), as King of kings and Lord of lords he only hath immortality, and he was, and is, and always shall be. That sounds like "eternal" to me.
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Let's see


Rosenritter said:
I thought eternal meant "never ending" not "without death." It's my understanding that one that has life in himself can die as many times as they like and still bring themselves back to life.

Joh 5:26
(26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


Joh 2:19-22
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
(22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


1Ti 6:13-16
(13) I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Rev 1:17-18
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Add these together, and Jesus has life in himself (as the Father), he raised himself from the dead (and elsewhere it also says raised by God), as King of kings and Lord of lords he only hath immortality, and he was, and is, and always shall be. That sounds like "eternal" to me.
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e·ter·nal

əˈtərn(ə)l/

adjective

lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

"the secret of eternal youth"

synonyms:everlasting,*never-ending,*endless,*perpetual,*undying,*immortal,*abiding,*permanent,*enduring,*infinite,*boundless,*timeless;*

amaranthine

"eternal happiness"

(of truths, values, or questions) valid for all time; essentially unchanging.

"eternal truths of art and life"

informal

seeming to last or persist forever, especially on account of being tedious or annoying.

"eternal nagging demands"

synonyms:constant,*continual,*continuous,*perpetual,*persistent,*sustained,*unremitting,*relentless,*unrelieved,*uninterrupted,*unbroken,*never-ending,*nonstop,*around/round-the-clock,*endless,*ceaseless

"eternal vigilance"


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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
NWL said:
"This repetition requires a literal sense, not a symbolic" Says who, you? Show me an example where a repetition of language demands that the things being spoken about be literal, don't make a claim without evidence.
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When Job says that even after the worms have consumed his flesh and his reins be consumed within him, how is this in a symbolic sense? Job was not in the process of "metaphorically" wasting away. His flesh was literally starting to crumble away when he said this. Have you even read this book? Do you need to be reminded of the story?

Do you have any honest objections?
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
JudgeRightly said:
It doesn't say that He is, but it does call Him

Now Jacob heard the words of Laban’s sons, saying, “Jacob has taken away all that was our father’s, and from what was our father’s he has acquired all this wealth.”And Jacob saw the countenance of Laban, and indeed it was not favorable toward him as before. Then the Lord said to Jacob, “Return to the land of your fathers and to your family, and I will be with you.” - Genesis 31:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:1-3&version=NKJV
And
“And it happened, at the time when the flocks conceived, that I lifted my eyes and saw in a dream, and behold, the rams which leaped upon the flocks were streaked, speckled, and gray-spotted.Then the Angel of God spoke to me in a dream, saying, ‘Jacob.’ And I said, ‘Here I am.’And He said, ‘Lift your eyes now and see, all the rams which leap on the flocks are streaked, speckled, and gray-spotted; for I have seen all that Laban is doing to you.I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed the pillar and where you made a vow to Me. Now arise, get out of this land, and return to the land of your family.’” - Genesis 31:10-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis31:10-13&version=NKJV

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God.And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.”Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. - Exodus 3:1-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus3:1-6&version=NKJV

The "Angel of the LORD" is Jesus, preincarnate. And He claims to be God, because He is God.
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There's at least another instance I am thinking of where God is called an angel.
 
P

popsthebuilder

New member
Right Divider said:
No, you have not.


Three PERSONS.

A Father is a PERSON.
A Son is a PERSON.
The Holy Spirit is a PERSON.


Maybe you need to get your head examined by a professional doctor. You have some screws loose.


Your version is cultist and perverted.

Once AGAIN, three WHAT?????

Be honest and answer that SIMPLE question.
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Lol person is begotten.

GOD is eternal

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S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Paul said for us there is only one God the Father. Jesus also said you have never heard Gods voice, nor seen His form.
Now we seen Jesus so He cant be God, we hear the Holy Spirit speak to us, so He cant be God.
Jesus said that we and Him have the very same God, and the very same Father. See how simple it is if you would just believe Jesus.


John 5:37
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
(NKJ)

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
 
S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Also we know there is only one three in one trinity in the bible.

Rev 20:2
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
(NKJ)
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Veritas veritate said:
Genesis disagrees with you...

Genesis one tells us that God said that He would make/create man in his image.... Then you have Genesis two which tells us how God created man in his image.

And the Eternal God formed man (the body) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the spirit of life and man became a living soul. ~ Genesis 2:7

Furthermore, an image (by definition something seen), necessitates a body which can be seen... This is why there are Christophanies within the Old Testament.
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No, it is NOT WHY there are Christophanies within the Old Testament.

God is in His essential being Spirit.

Believe whatever you want, but you're not believing the Bible.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
glorydaz said:
The worthless deceit of human wisdom....it's the word, itself, the sword of the Spirit that convicts you. It's all there....just see it.

The WORD was God....became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:1, John 1:14
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I don't disagree with that. Show how and where I did please.

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glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
All of these anti-trinitarian hacks are the same.
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Yep, a result of their human understanding. It's a mystery to the carnal mind.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.​
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
Right Divider said:
That is some zany terminology that is not Biblical.

A Father is NOT a "perceivable aspect", nor is a Son. They are PERSONS.
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No.

Projection.

GOD is spirit.

Person is creation/ mortal/ begotten/ formed/ limited in all capacities.

Do you presume to assume that GOD is limited as IT'S creation is?

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glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
Who denies He came in the flesh?

Okay, He didn't kill himself bit was murdered by the hands of man willingly.

So how does god die at all?

You people act as if I deny that the Holy Spirit filled the Christ of GOD, because I say the man Jesus wasn't literally the utter fullness of GOD as he was man. All scripture verifies this if you cared to see past your own force fed lies you so eagerly and naively devour up.

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glorydaz said:
The worthless deceit of human wisdom....it's the word, itself, the sword of the Spirit that convicts you. It's all there....just see it.

The WORD was God....became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:1, John 1:14
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popsthebuilder said:
I don't disagree with that. Show how and where I did please.
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You do disagree. I just read what you write.
 
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