The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

That's a man, a character from an anime (not sure which one though).

It's L from Death Note. He was a detective that insisted on having absolute proof before arresting even the most dangerous criminal. His fatal flaw was in being reluctant to condemn someone close to him that he wanted to count as a friend, which caused his death. Here's another picture: not exactly the feminine type.

 

[Rosenritter]

Don't you dare tell me it's not my call. It is the call of all believers to warn of the wolves that walk among us. Obviously, you don't understand that each must BE RECONCILED to God and there is only ONE WAY that can happen. Knowing WHO the Lord Jesus Christ is....Creator, Redeemer, Saviour, and LORD.

Kingdom Rose is not reconciled to God because she rejects Jesus Christ as Lord God Almighty. Therefore, she has no Saviour. Confessing the Lord Jesus Christ means you acknowledge He is the ONE LORD GOD. The words of the scripture cannot be interpreted by the natural man to say whatever any particular natural man says they are.

How they are interpreted give evidence that a person is or is NOT a believer. If they deny their God and Saviour, they are false prophets....a wolf in sheep's clothing. An enemy of the Cross. If a person claims Jesus is A GOD...they are not saved.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:​

I do dare to tell you that it's not your call. Actually, it's not me telling you, but Jesus himself.

Matthew 13:28-30 KJV
(28) He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
(30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Jesus said that he is the judge of the quick and the dead at the end of the world, and that it is not your job to go root out what you think are tares in the meantime. He also has something else to say about the judgment:

Matthew 25:41-45 KJV
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

If Jesus spoke this way concerning giving no food, drink, shelter, or comfort to those in need, what will he say to those that attack and persecute those in the most need of a physician?

Matthew 9:12-13 KJV
(12) But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
(13) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

We have one Savior, and he is the Savior to each and every one of us. Do not say to anyone that they have no Savior, that is a falsehood and against what Jesus preached, and against the way he acted. Condemn wickedness, lead by example, preach rightly, correct error, but do not presume to judge whom God will save, or will not save, or even more than this, who shall die in their sins and who shall not.

I realize that I may have antagonized you previously. That was not my aim, and I apologize for that. This is not said to antagonize you, nor is it because I am siding with anyone on any other issue. Ignore me if you will, but consider the spirit of how Jesus speaks above. He was dealing with people every day that didn't accept Him as God. Did he forgive them?

Matthew 12:31-32 KJV
(31) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
(32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Jesus says that this can be forgiven in the world to come. Can we believe his words? If he is God, shouldn't his words here mean something as well?

If someone does not yet fully recognize who Jesus was, you aren't going to persuade them with the way you were going about it. Trust me on this. I have a friend with whom I did persuade that Jesus was our God, Creator, and LORD. It took some time, it took patience and willingness to entreat, not to dismiss or condemn.

 

[Bright Raven]

.... yes, he is. It says "specially of those that believe."

1 Timothy 4:9-10 KJV
(9) This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
(10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

But by mentioning those specially, it does emphasize that he is the the Savior of all, not limited to those specially.

This is not saying that all will be saved, but he is a Savior to all. This is the gospel message, no?

Romans 5:8-10 KJV
(8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
(10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The answer to your question, YES.

 

[glorydaz]

.... yes, he is. It says "specially of those that believe."

1 Timothy 4:9-10 KJV
(9) This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
(10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

But by mentioning those specially, it does emphasize that he is the the Savior of all, not limited to those specially.

This is not saying that all will be saved, but he is a Savior to all. This is the gospel message, no?

Romans 5:8-10 KJV
(8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
(10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciled means make peace. Peace has been made with mankind on God's side through Christ's death on the Cross. But we each, individually, must be reconciled. We must be reconciled to the fact that our great God and Creator came and dwelt among us, and went to the Cross to pay for the sins of the entire world. Those who refuse to give Him the absolute glory He deserves as God Almighty are refusing to make peace with their own Creator. They deny Him.


We are ambassadors for CHRIST.... note how Paul speaks of God and Christ interchangeably here. Because there is only ONE LORD GOD. Jesus is our Lord and our God as Thomas made clear.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​

There is only ONE God, and He came and dwelt among us....purchasing us with HIS OWN BLOOD. Denying Jesus Christ is the One Lord God is blasphemy of the Spirit. One only knows this through the Spirit's enlightening.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.[/INDENT]​

 

[glorydaz]

I do dare to tell you that it's not your call. Actually, it's not me telling you, but Jesus himself.

You are citing what Jesus taught before He went to the cross. Do you realize that?


Then He went to the Cross, and the Risen Lord revealed this to Paul....we are to judge all things. You may not like it, but that is exactly what I'm doing.

1 Cor. 2:13-14
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.​

The fact is that we are to judge all things. We are to try the spirits, for we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.​

 

[popsthebuilder]

Don't you dare tell me it's not my call. It is the call of all believers to warn of the wolves that walk among us. Obviously, you don't understand that each must BE RECONCILED to God and there is only ONE WAY that can happen. Knowing WHO the Lord Jesus Christ is....Creator, Redeemer, Saviour, and LORD.

Kingdom Rose is not reconciled to God because she rejects Jesus Christ as Lord God Almighty. Therefore, she has no Saviour. Confessing the Lord Jesus Christ means you acknowledge He is the ONE LORD GOD. The words of the scripture cannot be interpreted by the natural man to say whatever any particular natural man says they are.

How they are interpreted give evidence that a person is or is NOT a believer. If they deny their God and Saviour, they are false prophets....a wolf in sheep's clothing. An enemy of the Cross. If a person claims Jesus is A GOD...they are not saved.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:​

Gloryaz;

I'm not trying to fight or say your are wrong or that I am right, or even hold to one position or the other, but the scripture you provided says nothing about having to believe that the man Jesus of Nazareth was the utter fullness of the eternal creator GOD.

So I was wondering if you considered those who believe Jesus as a man was the Messiah/ Savior/ and son of GOD to be saved.

Just wondering really.

peace

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[God's Truth]

Are you really that dense!? What they say is NOT THE SAME. What Peter and John say are the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Paul says.

This is what Paul says:

Prove you have repented by your deeds after you turn to God. Good deeds are the result of repentance and faith.

This is what Peter and John the Baptist say:

Work for repentance, produce fruit so that you become worthy of repentance, work for your salvation AND Repent so God will wipe away your sins.

He (Paul) says that good works are the result of faith, which is what grants us salvation. Faith, no works, for salvation.

John and Peter say works will result in being saved, but belief is also required on top of that.

They say the same thing.

GT, there's a true story that I've heard about recently (I won't say where from) where a pastor (no, not Pastor Enyart) needed his roof redone, so one of the members of his congregation offered to redo it for free, and so worked on it until it was finished. The next Sunday, the pastor mentioned how the man did the work for free and thanked him... And then said, intended as a joke, something along the lines of, "well, I guess it wasn't really free, because I took him out to lunch and paid for his food, so I guess you could say it was valued at a few cents per hour. Now, everyone laughed, but it was a joke in poor taste. The man did all the work for free, and then was insulted by the pastor saying his work was worth very little.

Why did the member choose to do it for the Pastor and not the active gang member?

Jesus saves us all on his own and he chooses those who obey; John 14:23.

Paul says God plays no favoritism.

Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

Did you read that? Did did you also see how Paul says to work for the Lord to get your reward of eternal life?

Another story (not entirely sure if it's true or not, but still has a valuable lesson) is one where a man's son loved to dive into the oceans surrounding the islands they lived on, and he would collect the oysters for their pearls. One day the boy saw one that was really deep, too deep to safely dive for, but seemed extremely valuable, so he dove for it, and managed to obtain it, and tried to swim back to the surface, but the damage had already been done, and the boy died a few days later. Now there was a missionary who came, and the man told him about his son, and the missionary told the man about Jesus, but the man wanted to pay for this salvation he heard about, but couldn't understand why the missionary said it couldn't be paid for with any amount of money. So the months went by, and it came time for the missionary to leave, and as he was about to leave, the man offered the beautiful pearl his son had died for to the missionary, who thought for a moment, and then pulled out his wallet and handed the man a twenty dollar bill (or whatever currency was used). The man, insulted, went into a fit about how the missionary was dishonoring his son by offering to pay for the gift, and the missionary said to him, "so to you yourself insult God by trying to pay Him for your salvation.

Here is a story from the Bible:

A man wanted to pay for the ability to give the Holy Spirit to others.

Acts 8:18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

20Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

24Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”


Did you read that?
Did you read how Peter told him to repent of his sin for offering money?
Peter didn't say he was a sinner and to just believe that he was forgiven; Peter told him to repent of sin.

GT, the parallel you need to draw in your mind from these stories to the Bible is that working for the gift of salvation is an insult to God, who sent His only Son to die on the cross for us, a gift beyond value, and when you try to work for it, you're offering your measly pieces of wood and hay and stubble as a payment for his priceless gift to us.

Jesus is the Way.
Jesus is the Word.
You do not grasp what those words mean.
Jesus is the Word that means he is speaking the very words of God the Father the creator.
Jesus is the Way that means he is telling us what to do to get to the Father.
Jesus tells us to repent of our sins, and unless you do, you will never enter.

GT, the only way to obtain salvation CANNOT be through works, because you cannot pay for the gift of Christ's blood on the cross. It is by grace through faith alone that we obtain salvation. No works required. You insult God when you say "one must work to be saved."

No longer by works of the law, which are circumcision, a special dietary law, the observance of special days, various external washings, and year after year of animal sacrifices.

Those works no longer matter because now we must go through Jesus whose blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Who has convinced you that there is a wrong time to obey God?

 

[glorydaz]

Gloryaz;

I'm not trying to fight or say your are wrong or that I am right, or even hold to one position or the other, but the scripture you provided says nothing about having to believe that the man Jesus of Nazareth was the utter fullness of the eternal creator GOD.

So I was wondering if you considered those who believe Jesus as a man was the Messiah/ Savior/ and son of GOD to be saved.

Just wondering really.

peace

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what scripture you're referring to. Sorry. But, yes, I do believe one must know WHO Jesus Christ is. He is not just the Son of God, He is God in the flesh. There are hundreds...thousands of verses that make it clear. More, it is made clear by the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in us. That is the great revelation.

There is only One God. Is Jesus a lesser God, or were all things created by and for Him?

It's a no-brainer for those who have the Spirit dwelling in them.

A man can understand a thing with his mind, but it's the Spirit that gives understanding. And that Spirit is the ONE who makes it crystal clear that Jesus is God in the flesh. It can't be understood except by revelation of the Spirit. So it becomes a matter of "believing in your heart" which is what is required in order to be saved.

I always think of Thomas when I hear this question. He was with Jesus when He walked this earth, and it wasn't until He'd risen from the dead that he actually believed Jesus was God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.​

 

[glorydaz]

Who has convinced you that there is a wrong time to obey God?

NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT. Why do you keep claiming they have?



NO ONE IS SAVED by their own obedience. Nor do they remain saved by their own obedience.

One and one is two. Two and two is four. Four and four is eight. Back to school you go, GuT

 

[God's Truth]

Then you are arrogant beyond measure.

Paul called it his gospel,

Paul also calls it OUR GOSPEL:

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul called it his gospel because He was inspired by God, under His authority. You on the other hand, do not have that same authority to call it "my gospel," because it was not given solely to you, as it was to Paul, just as he could not call the gospel of the twelve his gospel, because their gospel was given to them by Jesus during His earthly ministry, and not to him. Something else to note is that throughout the Bible, Israel is said to inherit in the future an earthly Kingdom, a new Jerusalem descending from heaven onto the new earth (verses throughout Isaiah), yet Paul says that we (the Body of Christ) have our hope in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:1).

Also, Jesus taught the Apostles the gospel they should preach while He was on the earth, yet Jesus gave Paul a different gospel after He had risen into heaven.

See the connection?

Jesus preached that he would die for us.

John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

Acts 8:32 This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading: "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

Paul preached Jesus dying for our sins.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

Peter preached Jesus dying for our sins.

1 Peter 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

John preached Jesus dying for our sins.

1 John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

Revelation 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.

Revelation 5:12 In a loud voice they were saying: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"

Revelation 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I'm not sure what scripture you're referring to. Sorry. But, yes, I do believe one must know WHO Jesus Christ is. He is not just the Son of God, He is God in the flesh. There are hundreds...thousands of verses that make it clear. More, it is made clear by the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in us. That is the great revelation.

There is only One God. Is Jesus a lesser God, or were all things created by and for Him?

It's a no-brainer for those who have the Spirit dwelling in them.

Peter got the revelation, but you believe different to him. Maybe a different spirit told you what you believe.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

A man can understand a thing with his mind, but it's the Spirit that gives understanding. And that Spirit is the ONE who makes it crystal clear that Jesus is God in the flesh. It can't be understood except by revelation of the Spirit. So it becomes a matter of "believing in your heart" which is what is required in order to be saved.

The word made flesh is NOT the same as God in the flesh.

What does scripture say is required to believe in your heart?

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

I always think of Thomas when I hear this question. He was with Jesus when He walked this earth, and it wasn't until He'd risen from the dead that he actually believed Jesus was God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.​

My Lord and my God, is not a declaration that Jesus is the creator.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT. Why do you keep claiming they have?

Of course they say that. You do too when you go against me for saying we have to obey by repenting of our sins to be saved. How can you forget?

It is not wrong to obey and repent of sins to get saved, because Jesus tells us that we have to.

You say that is wrong; therefore, you say there is a wrong time to obey.

Now think before you keep throwing into the debate that confusion that no one says something many here say.

NO ONE IS SAVED by their own obedience.

Even faith/believing is obedience, it just isn't the only obedient thing to do.

Having faith is obeying and it proves your whole "NO ONE IS SAVED by their own obedience" is false.

By the way, didn't you just tell me that "NO ONE HAS EVER SAID THAT"?

Nor do they remain saved by their own obedience.

One and one is two. Two and two is four. Four and four is eight. Back to school you go, GuT

Jesus' words are for everyone and his words remain forever.

There is never a wrong time to obey Jesus Christ.

...not before the cross, not after the cross, and not after Jesus ascended.

 

[glorydaz]

Peter got the revelation, but you believe different to him. Maybe a different spirit told you what you believe.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

He hadn't risen yet, so Peter didn't understand the full scope of who Jesus was. AND, Peter was slow.

The word made flesh is NOT the same as God in the flesh.

To be exact.

In the beginning the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.​

What does scripture say is required to believe in your heart?

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:12-13 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
​

You like to avoid the most important word there, and that is LORD. The same LORD over all...Jew and Greek.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: ​

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.​

My Lord and my God, is not a declaration that Jesus is the creator.

LA

MY LORD AND MY GOD....the Lord our God is ONE LORD. How can you ignore the obvious. :nono:

Of course He is Creator.

Col. 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.​

 

[glorydaz]

Of course they say that. You do too when you go against me for saying we have to obey by repenting of our sins to be saved. How can you forget?

No one says it's wrong to obey. It's wrong to say we have to do anything but believe in order to be saved.

First you say obey everything, and repent, and be baptized. Then you say obey by repenting. Then you say various other nonsensical performances we must do.....all error and all boasting. :nono:

There is no talking with you. You change like the wind and bluster and blow without any kind of lull. :down:

 

[God's Truth]

No one says it's wrong to obey. It's wrong to say we have to do anything but believe in order to be saved.

First you say obey everything, and repent, and be baptized. Then you say obey by repenting. Then you say various other nonsensical performances we must do.....all error and all boasting. :nono:

There is no talking with you. You change like the wind and bluster and blow without any kind of lull. :down:

You are not telling the truth. I say obey everything that Jesus commands.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are not telling the truth. I say obey everything that Jesus commands.

Everything?

Why have you not sold all you own?

 

[popsthebuilder]

I'm not sure what scripture you're referring to. Sorry. But, yes, I do believe one must know WHO Jesus Christ is. He is not just the Son of God, He is God in the flesh. There are hundreds...thousands of verses that make it clear. More, it is made clear by the Holy Spirit when He comes to dwell in us. That is the great revelation.

There is only One God. Is Jesus a lesser God, or were all things created by and for Him?

It's a no-brainer for those who have the Spirit dwelling in them.

A man can understand a thing with his mind, but it's the Spirit that gives understanding. And that Spirit is the ONE who makes it crystal clear that Jesus is God in the flesh. It can't be understood except by revelation of the Spirit. So it becomes a matter of "believing in your heart" which is what is required in order to be saved.

I always think of Thomas when I hear this question. He was with Jesus when He walked this earth, and it wasn't until He'd risen from the dead that he actually believed Jesus was God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.​

So the teachings and example of the Christ aren't what is important or what is shown by the Spirit and verified by scripture to you? What saves one is thinking Jesus as man was the fullness of GOD?


That's fine, but can you reference scripture showing one must believe the man Jesus was really the eternal GOD in the flesh in order to be saved?


You know what a stumbling block is?

peace




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[lifeisgood]

Without disputing that faith does come by hearing, this wouldn't exclude people who were deaf, and were limited to reading with their eyes? Something can be true without being the one and only acceptable pattern.

I do not believe we were speaking about people with disabilities. There is only one acceptable biblical pattern, faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God has always made exceptions for people with disabilities, such as braille, sign language, etc. You can take that any way you want though.

The point that is being missed is what does 'hearing' means biblically speaking. It is not a physical hearing, it is a spiritual hearing.

1 Corinthians 1:21 -- For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[lifeisgood]

You are not telling the truth. I say obey everything that Jesus commands.

You say you do obey everything that Jesus commands, however, have you sold everything you have yet? Nah, didn't think so. Therefore, you make yourself a .......

 

[NWL]

Sorry for my slow reply, family and life pressures have been keeping me away from the board as of late.

But you JUST SAID that you believed that Jesus is the Archangel Michael!

From your own post two days ago, 9346

Correct, I meant it in the sense that Jesus is no angel because he's the Archangel, Angel means "messenger", Archangel means "chief of the angels".

I have no need to contradict you further, you are contradicting yourself.

It is mine and other JW's understanding that there are ranks of spirit persons, those being from lowest in rank to highest, Angel (messengers), Cherubs (Ezekiel 10:3-4), Seraphs (Isa 6:2,6), and the Archangel (Re 12:7). Thus when I said Jesus was no Angel I was answering in relation to rank as I see it, Jesus is not an Angel (messenger) he is the Archangel.