Righteousness and Justification by Faith

[marhig]

Marhig and you both want to speak untruths about me.

You both are so contentious and mixed up.

I haven't said anything about you, and the reason I reacted to meshaks post is because she is right regarding how overly sensitive you are, you go over the top if people don't agree with every single thing you say, you take things too personally. I don't have anything against you, and I agree with many things that you say, but if we disagree on one point, that's it, you start with the badmouthing.

 

[marhig]

The Pharisees like you thought that they were without sin because they obeyed the law.

We must obey God, Jesus said those who enter the kingdom of heaven are those who do the will of the father. And they are also those who are his brothers and sisters and mother.

So living by the will of God is a must, and that is obeying him. And if we have true faith then God will be first in our lives and we will want to do his will and we will want to please our father because we love him.

 

[meshak]

I haven't said anything about you, and the reason I reacted to meshaks post is because she is right regarding how overly sensitive you are, you go over the top if people don't agree with every single thing you say, you take things too personally. I don't have anything against you, and I agree with many things that you say, but if we disagree on one point, that's it, you start with the badmouthing.

I have been bad mouthed by my opponent gossiping around about my faith over and over. They tell me I am just like GT.

It is so disgraceful and lie. We have nothing in common.

 

[God's Truth]

I haven't said anything about you, and the reason I reacted to meshaks post is because she is right regarding how overly sensitive you are, you go over the top if people don't agree with every single thing you say, you take things too personally. I don't have anything against you, and I agree with many things that you say, but if we disagree on one point, that's it, you start with the badmouthing.

You just don't like to be corrected by anyone about anything.

No you did say something about me and you prove that you are a dishonest person.

 

[marhig]

You just don't like to be corrected by anyone about anything.

No you did say something about me and you prove that you are a dishonest person.

Where? when? and what did I say?

By the way, I get corrected all the time, so that's not true. But in God, if I have scriptures that prove what I say is right, then I'll believe them.

 

[marhig]

I have been bad mouthed by my opponent gossiping around about my faith over and over. They tell me I am just like GT.

It is so disgraceful and lie. We have nothing in common.

Let them say what they like Meshak, they say bad things about the way I believe too, Jesus says that we will go through this once we truly follow him. And we are to suffer it and take it and have a forgiving heart and carry on baring witness to the truth regardless of what anyone does to us or says about us and still have hope for them. And if we keep our faith and love God from our hearts and truly follow Jesus then God by his grace will strengthen us to bare it, we just do Gods will, and leave the judging to God.

 

[daqq]

Many cannot reconcile James with Paul.

Did Christ have faith? Yes.
Did Christ also have works? Yes.

Did Paul have faith? Yes.
Did Paul have works? Yes.

For someone supposedly against works, Paul worked pretty hard, and "boasted" about these.

Excellent point and fully on display in this thread. If you quote James then according to the OP you must be a "Judaizer", and according to the Reformist-Calvinist you must be an Arminian, Synergist, blah, blah, blah. Nothing but excuses from people not taking all of the writings into account, and rather choosing one author over another, pitting scripture against scripture so as to nullify what they do not wish to accept or believe. However, where do we find any warning about those who twist and subvert the writings of James to their own destruction? (lol), nowhere, but we do read of Peter saying the same concerning the writings of Paul, and that is enough for me to guard myself, and to take that warning seriously, and to be very careful when it comes to the (awesomely supernal) things that Paul is teaching.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate Sees Bogeymen All Around

Robert Pate Sees Bogeymen All Around

Not responding to you anymore. You are apparently a Forum pet and I don't want to get banned.

I hope that is a promise, Robert. I will leverage your pouting and mournful avowal to the best possible use. :AMR:

AMR

 

[glorydaz]

You just don't like to be corrected by anyone about anything.

Here's a great big cast iron cooking pot calling a little tiny cast iron cup holder BLACK. :rotfl:

 

[meshak]

Let them say what they like Meshak, they say bad things about the way I believe too, Jesus says that we will go through this once we truly follow him. And we are to suffer it and take it and have a forgiving heart and carry on baring witness to the truth regardless of what anyone does to us or says about us and still have hope for them. And if we keep our faith and love God from our hearts and truly follow Jesus then God by his grace will strengthen us to bare it, we just do Gods will, and leave the judging to God.

You are right. That's why I am saying I am not mature like you. My worldly mind get upset when I see people smearing my faith for my God and Jesus and spreading lies that I am a non-believer.

It is so despicable and vicious when they spread with gossiping manner like they do.

thanks.

 

[iouae]

Excellent point and fully on display in this thread. If you quote James then according to the OP you must be a "Judaizer", and according to the Reformist-Calvinist you must be an Arminian, Synergist, blah, blah, blah. Nothing but excuses from people not taking all of the writings into account, and rather choosing one author over another, pitting scripture against scripture so as to nullify what they do not wish to accept or believe. However, where do we find any warning about those who twist and subvert the writings of James to their own destruction? (lol), nowhere, but we do read of Peter saying the same concerning the writings of Paul, and that is enough for me to guard myself, and to take that warning seriously, and to be very careful when it comes to the (awesomely supernal) things that Paul is teaching.

As Paul might have said, what I say next, I speak as a fool.

Paul was a university professor. Paul was a lawyer. Paul was a textbook writer. I have sat under many lecturers such as Paul, where they take a simple concept, explain it in depth, and I am left saying "Huh?"

I know the problem is with not so bright me. But there are other not so bright me's 2000 years later who read Paul and still, today, go "Huh?"

So, in my defence, which I call "Paul for dummies" I say, do not just take Paul and ignore Jesus and His brother James. Take them all as speaking the same thing. In fact do not even take Paul and ignore Paul because Paul can seem to be contradicting Paul. Yet I know there is a consistency to Paul. We, the Dummies, just have to find it.

Again, because I know I am a Dummy, when someone quotes Paul, I will not reply till I have read the book they are quoting from, from first to last verse.

Why I say this is because verses quoted out of context may sound completely against the message of the book.
e.g. Rom 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. vs...
Rom 3:27
¶
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

In the same book Paul seems both for the law and against the law. But I know reading the whole book will tell us which.

 

[meshak]

In the same book Paul seems both for the law and against the law.

That's the reason why I say his word sends mixed messages and confusion.

And his over all messages is not Jesus' teachings. In fact, he seems to deny to be faithful to Jesus' teachings.

 

[daqq]

As Paul might have said, what I say next, I speak as a fool.

Paul was a university professor. Paul was a lawyer. Paul was a textbook writer. I have sat under many lecturers such as Paul, where they take a simple concept, explain it in depth, and I am left saying "Huh?"

I know the problem is with not so bright me. But there are other not so bright me's 2000 years later who read Paul and still, today, go "Huh?"

So, in my defence, which I call "Paul for dummies" I say, do not just take Paul and ignore Jesus and His brother James. Take them all as speaking the same thing. In fact do not even take Paul and ignore Paul because Paul can seem to be contradicting Paul. Yet I know there is a consistency to Paul. We, the Dummies, just have to find it.

Again, because I know I am a Dummy, when someone quotes Paul, I will not reply till I have read the book they are quoting from, from first to last verse.

Why I say this is because verses quoted out of context may sound completely against the message of the book.
e.g. Rom 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. vs...
Rom 3:27
¶
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

In the same book Paul seems both for the law and against the law. But I know reading the whole book will tell us which.

"deeds of the law" = "works of the law" = "physical works - flesh-minded interpretation of the law"

God does not seem to be interested in or much happy with what we can do with our hands, feet, or that little member the tongue which is lit by the fire of Gehenna, nay, but rather it appears He wants us to put those things to sleep, or to death, to "mortify the deeds of the body" and our "members which are upon the earth". I suspect the reason is because those things tend make us become proud and self-righteous while in fact deceive us into thinking we are doing God a service and doing the will of God. It seems to me from what I read that God wants works that are done from the inside, from the heart, things like, well, you know, love.

 

[marhig]

As Paul might have said, what I say next, I speak as a fool.

Paul was a university professor. Paul was a lawyer. Paul was a textbook writer. I have sat under many lecturers such as Paul, where they take a simple concept, explain it in depth, and I am left saying "Huh?"

I know the problem is with not so bright me. But there are other not so bright me's 2000 years later who read Paul and still, today, go "Huh?"

So, in my defence, which I call "Paul for dummies" I say, do not just take Paul and ignore Jesus and His brother James. Take them all as speaking the same thing. In fact do not even take Paul and ignore Paul because Paul can seem to be contradicting Paul. Yet I know there is a consistency to Paul. We, the Dummies, just have to find it.

Again, because I know I am a Dummy, when someone quotes Paul, I will not reply till I have read the book they are quoting from, from first to last verse.

Why I say this is because verses quoted out of context may sound completely against the message of the book.
e.g. Rom 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. vs...
Rom 3:27
¶
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

In the same book Paul seems both for the law and against the law. But I know reading the whole book will tell us which.

If we read a bit more of Romans 3, we see that the Jews are justified by faith and the gentiles through faith, because the Jews have the laws, but that is not enough, they must have faith also, so they are justified by faith, but we are justified through faith because we don't know the laws as they do, so it's through faith in Christ and God that we are justified, but then once we have faith and once we are born of God, then through Christ we will have the laws written in our hearts and in our minds by the Holy Spirit teaching and guiding us in the truth daily. And as Paul said, we then establish the laws. Because through love and faith, we obey the spirit in the heart. And if we truly love God with our all and our neighbour as ourselves then we won't break the laws.

Romans 3

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 13

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul doesn't go against the laws of God, he says that we establish the laws of God through love and faith, because once we have true faith and love God with our all, we will obey him and love others as ourselves and we won't do anything to hurt them.

 

[iouae]

Paul doesn't go against the laws of God, he says that we establish the laws of God through love and faith, because once we have true faith and love God with our all, we will obey him and love others as ourselves and we won't do anything to hurt them.

Paul seems a bit of a Pharisee when it comes to his own personal law keeping.
Where was Paul finally taken prisoner before being sent to Rome? He was captured in the temple, in Jerusalem, participating with and paying for sacrificial offerings for Jews who were taking religious vows (possibly Nazarite vows).

Act 21:26
Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Act 21:27
And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,

One does not get any more OC law keeping than performing purification rituals in the temple in Jerusalem.

So, for someone supposedly against works, Paul did a lot of works.
And for someone supposedly against law, Paul was a poster child for OC law keeping himself.

 

[meshak]

So, for someone supposedly against works, Paul did a lot of works.
And for someone supposedly against law, Paul was a poster child for OC law keeping himself.

Yes, that causes confusion.

 

[iouae]

Yes, that causes confusion.

You are not alone

 

[meshak]

You are not alone

I know. That's why so many arguments around Paul's word.

 

[meshak]

You are not alone

God is not God of confusion.

Leaders claim or teaching should not be cause of confusion.

 

[marhig]

Paul seems a bit of a Pharisee when it comes to his own personal law keeping.
Where was Paul finally taken prisoner before being sent to Rome? He was captured in the temple, in Jerusalem, participating with and paying for sacrificial offerings for Jews who were taking religious vows (possibly Nazarite vows).

Act 21:26
Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Act 21:27
And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,

One does not get any more OC law keeping than performing purification rituals in the temple in Jerusalem.

So, for someone supposedly against works, Paul did a lot of works.
And for someone supposedly against law, Paul was a poster child for OC law keeping himself.

Yes Paul didn't just push God's laws aside and not do any works, he did both, through faith and love. He had faith and loved God from his heart.

You can hear the spirit in Paul.