I think I’m going to be moving along permanently from TOL. There’s really not much else here but heterodoxy and heresy, and it starts at the top with all the Admins. And their biases are insufferable double standards, at best. Most here despise truth for the sake of their own subjective opinions and false dialectic based on whatever theological illiteracy they insist on maintaining. This is not an authentic Christian forum for the faith once delivered to the saints. I can’t be here.
I’m not really sure you agree with that last paragraph. I’m saying it is impossible for the Lord’s post-ascension body to be subject to abuse. And Lutherans, in my experience, most definitely do consider those who partake of the Sacrament of the Altar in ignorance or unbelief to be guilty of not discerning His body and blood.
I don’t see how you escape the valid assertion of some gradient of Nestorianism. Can you illucidate that for me a bit?
I’ve been pondering how to continue this conversation, considering how best to truly communicate between us any differences there are in how we authentically understand each of the two opposing positions (eliminating the mere Memorialist view for its obvious gross insufficiency).
One of the first points that I would contend is that the Body of our Lord can no longer in any way be subject to open abuse; for it was wholly subject to abuse in the aorist sense during the Incarnation and in His authentic death, and cannot be so in any continued and repeated fashion by anyone ever again. There is no post-resurrection and ascension vulnerability of our Lord to such, as He has everlastingly prevailed over sin and death. (And to insist otherwise is, once again, to engage in some gradient of Semi-Nestorian separation of His humanity and divinity.)
The under, in, and with for the Sacrament of the Altar is simple for me, based upon my understanding of the term hypostasis. The Zwingli/Calvin position is Semi-Nestorian to me, but you probably have some insight from your own perspective. The Lutheran position is undefined and is not Transubstantiation or Consubstantiation. I have a hard time embracing anything less after my years in Evangelicalism, and after over a decade of imbibing the Patristics.
I guess it’s one area I’m puzzled why exegetes like yourself adhere to the Zwingli position.
I will always consider your prayers among those of a few others to have brought me to within such a functional manner of discourse and attention to doctrinal detail with a broader scope. In the past, the minutiae I was consumed with (though valid in context) has proven to not be the “real fight” of apologetics, even if it was a necessary stage for me to get to this position on the other side of it all. I am now able to advocate for stringent adherance to terms and lexicography with credibility. It’s a great relief.
My focus is now much more on the appropriate understanding of the narrow range of authentic orthodoxy, and guarding against modern NAR heresies while advocating for functional distinctions like Liturgy against CoWo and the like. I’ve left behind my narrow and flawed foci, and have been able to embrace Confessional integrity without being a misunderstood renegade. It’s been cathartic to defend the Faith from Arians and Sabellians rather than be mistakenly lumped with them because of my trajectories of rhetoric regarding modern misunderstanding of Theology Proper and much more. I largely thank you for that, my Brother.
My time in Lutheranism has been greatly productive, as I’ve been able to adhere to Patristic and Confessional doctrine in a much more refined and rigorous manner. I frame my previous challenges as being against perversion of concepts rather than the ancient authentic doctrines themselves, which was my gross error previously. (IOW, I’m not anti-Trinitarian, but anti-modern concepts OF the Trinity doctrine. And I propose potential points of better understanding were the doctrine formulated today in light of how it has been misrepresented by Semi-Tritheists and Semi-Sabellians and Semi-Arians posing as Trinitarians in ignorance and zeal.)
I’m overwhelmed with sadness to hear that, as I thought that would be the report. I’ve been acutely burdened with concern for you and her since learning of her illnesses long ago.
I’m exploring a recent possibility at the Fort Wayne Lutheran Seminary for their SMP (Special Mission Pastor). While at District Convention as lay delegate, I had opportunity to converse with several key Circuit Pastors who know my Pastor and are familiar with my development of exhaustive material for catechesis. They suggested I apply for this online-based program and to take a vicarage position within the Circuit that they would create for me to be a full-time Catechist for all fellowships in the Circuit. It’s a work in progress, as my wife is also finishing her second Masters Degree in Classics locally before we consider any possible move anyway (she’s many years my junior).
I love Arizona and have worked at Orbital in Chandler & Gilbert but, my wife absolutely hates the desert. I have a really good job that I have landed into right now that should carry me to retirement in about 8-10 years, maybe sooner if I feel I can swing it but, this job is pretty laid back, not as much hustle, bustle, and back work as the launchsites though we go there to support spacecraft fueling and launch.
I have been on a roller coaster ride since being laid off last fall. It took me to the Northwest (living in my 36' diesel pusher) to build ballistic missiles for the Navy and then back home again to a new job working payloads which is a bit more suited to my skillset. I wish I could tell you more about it but, I am bound to secrecy if you know what I mean. I have been really busy since I got home but, I will make an effort to get in here once I awhile. . I hope all is well with you brother...catch you around. :thumb:
Thanks, AMR. I'm actually a long term member, though I've spent a lot of time away, esp. on atheistic or agnostic sites. We've often crossed paths before, though It's likely too much to jar memories of my presence at your reformedtheologyinstitute, or sites like CARM, the Puritan Board, or even Christians Forums. Erwin's CF was an early one, going back to LBMB and King's Taven which merged there, and where I was briefly staff just prior to Erwin's selling of the site. Last I checked you were still there as chaplain? I was once up for the Alpha Protestant postion there before the site more-or-less blew up and bacame a shadow of it's former self. um... I don't always use the grit moniker.
It's why I like to illustrate points and why I have little patience with people who dedicate themselves to being just as obtuse as need be to miss a thing they can't answer. Or maybe that's just the optimist in me. lain: