John Calvin's Nazi God.

[Crucible]

Atheists liken God to Hitler, because genocide and racism pretty much make up the hull of Jewish prominence in the Old Testament. God has had favoritism from the beginning.

No coincidence here- Anti Calvinists are offended by God's sovereignty just the same

 

[Zeke]

Actually, Nikodemos clearly understood; for no archon-ruler and teacher of the people, being a Pharisee of Pharisees, would have defiled himself by coming into contact with a dead body during the seven days of Pesakh-Matzot unless he truly loved that person who had died, (for he would have become ritually unclean for seven days). When Nikodemos asked the question, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into the womb of his mother and be born (a second time)?" the Master answers him, "Aμην αμην λεγω σοι...", which is a double affirmation, that is to say, "YES! Verily I say unto you..."

So Nikodemos, being an archon-ruler and teacher of the people, no doubt understood the Master to be speaking of going back into the "womb" of the "mother-covenant" so as to relearn everything, (the renewed covenant as understood through the lenses of the Testimony of Messiah which interprets all things Torah, Prophets, and Writings), and that means that the Master speaks and teaches, (re John 3:4-5), concerning Yerushalem of above, our mother (covenant) the same as Paul states in Gal 4:26.

So where does the Spirit ask Nicodemus to touch a dead corpse? not following you'er re-spawned concern over my use of a label/title! Ole Nick doesn't mind seeing he is a symbolic character that seemed to be confused about the subject of being born again, I know it's in the spells/jot and tittles of the He-Brew but I haven't the time or desire to learn letters that are like the telephone game, and why would I if the new covenant is within as is the Christ, this play/movie is temporal and all sides are being acted out by the Supreme Conscience, these debates our play ground level anyway compared to the state of benevolence we all come here to graduate into no matter what role we assume in persona time.

 

[Robert Pate]

Atheists liken God to Hitler, because genocide and racism pretty much make up the hull of Jewish prominence in the Old Testament. God has had favoritism from the beginning.

No coincidence here- Anti Calvinists are offended by God's sovereignty just the same

God's sovereignty is always within his holy, just, merciful and righteous nature. God cannot and will not sin against himself or his created beings.

 

[Crucible]

God's sovereignty is always within his holy, just, merciful and righteous nature. God cannot and will not sin against himself or his created beings.

That's Calvinism in a nutshell, you imbecile :chuckle:

God will not justify a person whom He knows will reject Him and return to wickedness.
Sovereign Election, bro.

 

[Robert Pate]

That's Calvinism in a nutshell, you imbecile :chuckle:

God will not justify a person whom He knows will reject Him and return to wickedness.
Sovereign Election, bro.

That is not Calvinism, you nut case.

Because Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world,1 John 2:2. It is now possible for, "Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13.

 

[freelight]

Additional insights......

Additional insights......

You serve a false god. The God I serve makes His people willing in the Day of His Power PS 110:3

3*Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Hi beloved - you're something else

I edited my last post here - a few touch ups. - do note, I do acknowledge that 'God' allows/enables all that can be allowed/enabled in man's response towards him. BOTH classical Calvinists and Arminians agree. All is by God's grace - this includes original faculties in man to operate as well, in their own special original, creative function. I hope we got that. - he allows freedom within that space where 'responses' transpire, to choose, align, comply, agree with or refuse/resist. Yes,...all that transpires does so within divine providence, divine allowance....but God loves you enough not to coerce you, he doesn't FORCE your hand, but will draw, encourage, woo, influence you to choose rightly. Remember as well, the faculty of 'conscience' exists in man and has its own law of operation (another interesting subject). There are some passages that show man can resist such, choose against life.

Now whether love ultimately overpowers all, in the disposition of all souls to effect a universal salvation for all,...this is something to consider as well in your soteriology/eschatology - but that God predetermined a fate on souls that they had no choice in assuming for themselves, before they were born, being totally ABANDONED by God (passed over) for God's unknown reasons (all conjectured), is cruelty beyond measure. That's the kind of 'god' you have in your system, unless we heard you wrong. - and just tooting the same ole horn that "God can do what He wants to because He's God',...doesn't cut the cake, and is pretty abysmal as an excuse really.

Now concerning God inspiring our will to DO his will, of course,...most religionists agree, all enablements are by grace, since 'God' is the sole provider, the creator of faculties and their enabler. Freedom of choice accounts for the problem of evil. Looks like you may have go a little deeper philosophically speaking and reconsider your assumptions :angel: - remember Jesus said "not my will but yours be done?" - well,....this was not the total annulment of Jesus human will, but the surrender of his will to the Father's will, so the faculty of choice in surrendering to the Father was still there, Jesus recognizing a potential and existing desire to do otherwise. By such suffering, conflict and human experience, he grew in wisdom and grace, he underwent a process of learning.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate - A Man Talking To Himself

Robert Pate - A Man Talking To Himself

....Because Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world,1 John 2:2. It is now possible for, "Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13.

Asked and answered, yet you revert to repeating the same opinion time and again.

"World means all of humanity" - Robert Pate

Robert Pate's "world"

Robert Pate Twists 1 John 2:2

Compare your universalistic view of "world" against what Scripture teaches about the extent of the atonement: John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9; John 17:22; John 18:9.

Robert, you just do not want to acknowledge anyone's argument contrary to your view. I and others have pointed out to you how you misrepresent the very Scriptures you appeal to. It is as if you view yourself all alone at a discussion site where no one is actually responding to you.

AMR

 

[daqq]

So where does the Spirit ask Nicodemus to touch a dead corpse? not following you'er re-spawned concern over my use of a label/title! Ole Nick doesn't mind seeing he is a symbolic character that seemed to be confused about the subject of being born again, I know it's in the spells/jot and tittles of the He-Brew but I haven't the time or desire to learn letters that are like the telephone game, and why would I if the new covenant is within as is the Christ, this play/movie is temporal and all sides are being acted out by the Supreme Conscience, these debates our play ground level anyway compared to the state of benevolence we all come here to graduate into no matter what role we assume in persona time.

If you imagine that "letters" do not count you are mistaken. The letter kills because spirit must be added to it to understand it. It therefore kills when "the spirit of the world" from carnal minded man is added to it. The Master clearly understood letters and that was without the discipleship and schooling required by the Rabbins in that time:

About the midst of the feast of Sukkot Yeshua went up into the temple and taught. The Yhudim therefore wondered, saying, How does this one know letters, (γραμματα), not having been discipled? Yeshua therefore answered them, and said, My teaching is not my own but His that sent me: if anyone desires to do His will, the same shall know the teaching, whether it is of Elohim, or whether I speak from myself. The one speaking from himself seeks his own glory: but the one seeking the glory of Him that sent him, the same is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him. Did not Moshe give you the Torah? and yet no one of you does the Torah, (John 7:14-19b).

How is it that Yeshua knows letters, (γραμματα), without having been discipled and taught by the Rabbins and teachers of the Torah? How is it that the Yhudim understood that he should not be able to read and understand the Torah without their own discipleship from their own teachers? It is because the Torah contained the letters, (γραμματα), but they were not pointed, (στικτα), as it is today in the Masorete Hebrew text, (which is only about one thousand years old as of now). Accordingly therefore it was assumed that one could not read and understand the Torah without the teachers of the people being heavily involved in the training of the student. This means that the Rabbins, Elders, Scribes, and teachers of the Torah had already inserted themselves into the Torah by way of their own interpretations of an unfinished text. However Yeshua was able to read it without letter pointing or any instruction from the Rabbins and teachers of the Torah: and that is precisely why his doctrine was diametrically opposed to their own, for they had already by this time inserted themselves and their own interpretations into the readings of the text, that is, their own understanding as for how to read the letters of the text.

The Torah was not intended to be fully complete and understandable when it was rewritten under Ezra. It was specifically designed to be left incomplete until Messiah would come to fully expound all things. This is why Moshe set judges over the people, so as to make judgements based on their reading and understanding of the written text, and by the Spirit of the Law; for in the long term the truth would come to light, after sufficient debate and argument back and forth, as to what is the most proper understanding in any given situation. But man always has the predisposition to clarify laws so that judgment and condemnation may be carried out. Because of these things the rulers and judges of the people had cursed themselves by the time Yeshua arrived on the scene because they had inserted themselves and their own carnal interpretations into the text through discipleship into their own self-certified training programs. This is why Yeshua says elsewhere that they had left out the weightier matters of the Torah: just judgment, (justice), compassionate mercy and grace, and trusting-faithfulness-belief, (Matthew 23:23), for these things were to come not by the letter, for they are not in the letter, but by the Spirit through the judges who were set up to make such determinations. And that is why mercy and grace are not often mentioned in the Torah; for it is likewise a trial for the reader, to see what "the judge" will do with the text before him, (or her), and therefore the entire understanding depends on the heart and mindset of the reader. But the Yhudim, even in the time of Yeshua, had taken that away from the people by way of their strict enforcement of their own interpretations through their own training in their own schools. If the reader loves YHWH Elohim with all the heart, and with all the soul, and with all the mind, then the reader will not see YHWH Elohim as a vengeful and merciless Creator but rather the One who is love and loves His creation and people.

Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; for you tithe mint, and anise, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the Torah: justice, (right judgment), and compassion, (merciful graciousness), and faithfulness-trusting-belief: these things are necessary to be done, (when you insert your spirit of understanding into the letter), and the same you leave undone! (Matthew 23:23).

You do the same as everyone else ****** ****, that is, you insert your own spirit of understanding into the text when you read it through your own eyes. And that same spirit of understanding comes forth in all of your own judgmental inflammatory words with every breath that you spew and in all the words of condemnation which you write to those you hate. One day the Father will be taking His air away from your carcass: and what then will you do? :chuckle:

That is why you need the Testimony of Yeshua to interpret Torah, Prophets, and Writings: for the Testimony of Yeshua is the New-Renewed Covenant Spirit, (Ezekiel 11:19, 18:31, 36:26).

 

[Robert Pate]

[FONT=&]Asked and answered, yet you revert to repeating the same opinion time and again.

[/FONT]"World means all of humanity" - Robert Pate

Robert Pate's "world"

Robert Pate Twists 1 John 2:2

[FONT=&]Compare your universalistic view of "world" against what Scripture teaches about the extent of the atonement: John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9; John 17:22; John 18:9.

Robert, you just do not want to acknowledge anyone's argument contrary to your view. I and others have pointed out to you how you misrepresent the very Scriptures you appeal to. It is as if you view yourself all alone at a discussion site where no one is actually responding to you.

AMR[/FONT]

If Jesus had not atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, then God would not have accepted Jesus into heaven and seated him as his own right hand as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

As usual, you have been refuted again.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate's Version of "Refutation" of Arguments Given

Robert Pate's Version of "Refutation" of Arguments Given

Asked and answered, yet you revert to repeating the same opinion time and again.

"World means all of humanity" - Robert Pate

Robert Pate's "world"

Robert Pate Twists 1 John 2:2

Compare your universalistic view of "world" against what Scripture teaches about the extent of the atonement: John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9; John 17:22; John 18:9.

Robert, you just do not want to acknowledge anyone's argument contrary to your view. I and others have pointed out to you how you misrepresent the very Scriptures you appeal to. It is as if you view yourself all alone at a discussion site where no one is actually responding to you.

AMR

If Jesus had not atoned for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, then God would not have accepted Jesus into heaven and seated him as his own right hand as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

As usual, you have been refuted again.

"Robert, you just do not want to acknowledge anyone's argument contrary to your view. I and others have pointed out to you how you misrepresent the very Scriptures you appeal to. It is as if you view yourself all alone at a discussion site where no one is actually responding to you."

Q.E.D.

Sigh.

AMR

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I add my commentary-response to each line of the 'manifesto' below in red text

~*~*~

Ask Mr. Religion wrote:

Accordingly, in rebellion to the above, the anti-Calvinist has essentially crafted their own anti-Calvinist manifesto:


The anti-Calvinist's Soteriological Manifesto

I was born with free will

Yes, why is that hard to accept? look at Adam & Eve,...didn't they have freedom to choose? - also note they were not tainted by any so called 'original sin',.....their 'freedom' then represents a most libertarian one before any assumed defects of "the fall". - yet even so, men after Adam are held responsible for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression or any forefathers. - see Ezekiel.

I possess the power to seek after God

All ability/power/capacity is given by God. It is God-enabled.

I improved upon the grace God gives equally to all persons

Not necessarily, neither does this need to be assumed. One can certainly 'grow in grace', so improvements of various kinds can blossom therefrom.

I did what my neighbor did not

One really cant speak for their neighbor, but if we have genuine freedom to choose, then so be it, but this choice does not make anyone better (or more special) than anyone else, since this provision of freedom is given to all. Where real freedom exists,...the full range of productivity to destructivity must exist,...the full range of life and death potentials/possibilities. Any sentient being motivated and filled with God's love would NEVER boast of his own righteousness or salvation, neither rejoice in the demise or suffering of another!

I know God does not actually make me willing when I am not

I don't know, is God willing our every move, every moment? Are we wholly controlled by God? - we come back to man's freedom,...some deny it, others recognize it.

I know God's grace does not distinguish me from anyone else

Does it need to? If grace is offered to all, whereby salvation MAY be obtained,...and some accept, while others reject or resist this grace to the point of complete rejection,...what is distinguished are the consequences of such decisions.

I made use of God's grace and such is why I am different than others

I don't know that any 'difference' is necessary, except one reaps what he sows, and receives the consequences of what he chooses.

Most carefully constructed post... ever! The way this builds on another individuals statements is awesome!

Epic Post! Seriously!

# Awesome!

 

[Robert Pate]

"Robert, you just do not want to acknowledge anyone's argument contrary to your view. I and others have pointed out to you how you misrepresent the very Scriptures you appeal to. It is as if you view yourself all alone at a discussion site where no one is actually responding to you."

Q.E.D.

Sigh.

AMR

My view is not what is at stake here. Your doctrine is contrary to the word of God. You continually subvert the word of God with your heretical Calvinist doctrine.

 

[TulipBee]

OP uses views from another religion. Pure hypocrite. Worst of all hypocrites put together. Bad news. Sad. Makes TOL look bad. Its already a urantia hangout.

 

[Robert Pate]

OP uses views from another religion. Pure hypocrite. Worst of all hypocrites put together. Bad news. Sad. Makes TOL look bad. Its already a urantia hangout.

What's sad is a doctrine that believes God predestinates people to hell before they are born.

 

[freelight]

OP uses views from another religion. Pure hypocrite. Worst of all hypocrites put together. Bad news. Sad. Makes TOL look bad. Its already a urantia hangout.

I'm sure RP has been combating Calvinism for years in his own way, by his own analysis. TOL is an open forum in the public domain, and is a discussion board that allows a broad range of religious viewpoints, opinions and beliefs to be "discussed", especially here in the 'Religion' section. There is an 'exclusive Christian Theology' sub-forum here, if you want to be involved in that category of theology. Otherwise, here you will be confronted with diverse and sundry topics, and posters of all kinds and stripes.

TOL is NOT a 'urantia hangout',....you're assumption is ridiculous. Hundreds of different topics are allows and featured on this forum, and only ONE pro exploratory Urantia Book Thread is currently being allowed on the forum,...that's FAR from TOL becoming a UB forum. - this is comical. I think you need to get out a little more - my commentary on that thread stands, as well, regarding that particular text, which is what that thread is about, for those wanting to engage all the subjects within its 'context'. That's what 'discussion' is.

My commentary on TULIP and associated concepts also holds, as posited here and so many related threads already, and are open and available for anyone wishing to engage the topics.

My expose' on 'Preterition' still holds too, since a 'god' who PASSES OVER souls and leaves them to ROT in hell (whatever 'hell' is imagined or defined' by your religious imagination) is a 'god' that is NOT worthy of worship. - both 'hyper' and 'soft' forms of Calvinism hold to 'preterition', the latter form has just 'softened' and 'sanitized' it some. That's it. - nice try, but you still have a capricious god whose love is imperfect, impartial and randomly selective, to say nothing of 'impotent'.

 

[freelight]

2nd response to the Anti-calvinist manifesto.......

2nd response to the Anti-calvinist manifesto.......

I already answered each line in a previous post concerning AMR's posting of an 'Anti Calvinist' Manifesto,...below I will respond (in fire brick red) to Spurgeon's specific words, which echo or correlate with the manifesto earlier presented, going over the same points with a different nuance -


AMR quotes Spurgeon:

Seeing themselves as the captains of their own destiny, leveraging their manifesto, the anti-Calvinists thusly conduct themselves in communion with their Maker along the following lines:

“Lord, I thank thee that I am not like these poor, presumptuous Calvinists.

A person not agreeing with Calvinism or some of its points does not have to take this posture. 'Presumptions' can retard progress or distort truth.

Lord, I was born with a glorious free will; I was born with a power by which I can turn to thee of myself;

Freedom to respond, and having real response-ability is a provision of grace itself, wherein grace enables freedom to respond.

I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace as I have, they might all have been saved.

Grace is grace,...how can one improve on it? - you can respond to it, or reject it.

Lord, I know that thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves… it was not thy grace that made us differ…

There may be a contest of wills, or a marriage of wills. There is no need to 'differentiate' about some being saved by grace and others not, except to see that they did not respond positively to or accept the grace offered. In any case,...all saved souls are saved by grace,...grace is the distinguishing factor thru-out. One cannot enjoy any aspect of blessing, salvation or exaltation apart from grace.

I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them.”

Well,...that's kinda the point. But this is in no wise an opportunity to rejoice or boast in one's salvation OVER any others, especially where grace is freely given to all. God is glorified in the intentional joining and partnership in his provision of grace, in obedience of love sustaining the full rapport of a convenant-relationship. - A covenant is the voluntary and willed JOINING or co-operation of 2 persons or parties, who have agreed to satisfy the terms of the covenant's trust and benefit. As long as the terms are held and honored, dynamically, the union is fulfilled.

Src: Spurgeon, Sermon on John 5:40 “Free Will a Slave” The New Park Street Pulpit, 1855- 1856, Volumes I & II (Pilgrim 1975), 395-402.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

"Robert, you just do not want to acknowledge anyone's argument contrary to your view. I and others have pointed out to you how you misrepresent the very Scriptures you appeal to. It is as if you view yourself all alone at a discussion site where no one is actually responding to you."

Q.E.D.

Sigh.

AMR

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Most Ironic silent quote ever.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The Medium is Not The Message

The Medium is Not The Message

Most Ironic silent quote ever.

I parted ways with you and gave the reasons for doing so:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-(Calvinism)&p=4906715&viewfull=1#post4906715

I have no inclination to wade through myriad extraneous content in your current bombastic style of posting.

There was a time when you could actually put real sentences together and dropped the sarcasm:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-reprobation&p=4775251&viewfull=1#post4775251

When you can show yourself to be serious and not merely toadying to the hoi polloi, perhaps actual discussion will take place.

AMR

 

[Lon]

Most Ironic silent quote ever.

I certainly didn't understand Calvinism for a very long time. It is an affront to ego and self-sense of the world as we see it. I however knew too many godly men who were Calvinists so never got this vitriolic and thin in my assessments. It might do for you to spend more time in prayer lest you find yourself kicking against God very God...that is unless your view of God has you with an incredibly high opinion of yourself. Some on here are exactly that arrogant. I pray I'm never that guy. If you can assail my views, for Christ's sake, good. Serve instead of attack. You are not looking like a servant of the Most High with such as this, imho. -Lon