Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
I only read your first line. Calvinists believe that one must first be "Regenerated" then, they receive saving faith. This is putting the cart before the horse. Which, you will no doubt, disagree.
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Nice try to move the goalposts, GM. You have not interacted with my response to your view at all that clearly teaches your citation of a verse cannot mean what you think it means given other Scripture that appears in opposition to your view. Let's settle the topic in question before moving on.

AMR
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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Break time (GM breathes a sigh of relief to regroup and hope I forget):

I have to run to the vet to pick up one of my Shih Tzus who had some teeth removed this morning. Be back later.

;)

AMR
 
Angel4Truth

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Define "free will", GM.

Mine: the ability to choose according to one's greatest inclinations at the moment one so chooses.

Yours?

AMR
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Angel4Truth said:
Raises hand. I would like to answer this after GM does. Let me know since i do not wish to disrupt the conversation you are both having.
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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Go right ahead.
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Angel4Truth said:
Have you answered it yet?
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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Say what you want.
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Free will - The ability to respond to God in both the affirmative or in rejection in addition the ability to grieve His Spirit in this life. This however i believe is first prompted by God, but that He calls all men to this decision at some point in their lives.

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

Deuteronomy 4:29 "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.

Psalm 32:6 Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found; Surely in a flood of great waters they will not reach him.

Jeremiah 24:7 'I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the LORD; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart.

Amos 5:4
For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel, "Seek Me that you may live."

Luke 13:34 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.


John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

If it were not possible to reject Gods calling, all men would be saved since Gods desire for US is that we receive and love the truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.


We have a choice in this life to receive or reject Him in this life, but that we cannot make that decision untill He prompts it with His Spirit (opens our eyes in order that we can respond)

Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
"Cross examination" of your opinions is not implying formal courts of law. It is but asking you about your opinions.

Keep trying, though. You will eventually find a reason to bow out.

AMR
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Calvinists have their own interpretation/misinterpretations, They have their own terminology, they see no Free will where there is an abundance of it, They change the character and intent of the God of the Bible and they follow "Another gospel." Trying to debate with a Calvinist is an "An exercise in Futility." That's why I'm hesitant to get into all this with you. Calvinists have their own lingo. They are thoroughly indoctrinated. They have all their misguided ducks in a row. They are pretentious, arrogant and believe they have all of the answers. No one can win a debate with a Calvinist. Even if the other person makes a good point, the Calvinist will not relent. No matter what, the Calvinist will consider himself the victor. So, come on AMR, you know this is useless to me and to you. We could go on all night and into tomorrow and still come to a dead end. You guys believe humanity has no free will and we Grace Believers say we do. You believe God chose the "Elect" before the foundation of the world, we do not. You believe that humanity is too depraved to choose the things of God and we disagree on the basis of Free will. It goes on, and on and on. Why bother? You're wasting your time and mine and vise-versa. we'll NEVER come to a meeting of the minds, so, I'll let you take the glory for Calvinists Universally. How's that sound to ya?
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Nice try to move the goalposts, GM. You have not interacted with my response to your view at all that clearly teaches your citation of a verse cannot mean what you think it means given other Scripture that appears in opposition to your view. Let's settle the topic in question before moving on.

AMR
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Nah, my last post to you is at the bottom of this page. You cannot change what I believe and I cannot change what you believe. We'll just leave it at that. See, we both walk away intact. :)
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Angel4Truth said:
Free will - The ability to respond to God in both the affirmative or in rejection in addition the ability to grieve His Spirit in this life. This however i believe is first prompted by God, but that He calls all men to this decision at some point in their lives.

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

Deuteronomy 4:29 "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.

Psalm 32:6 Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found; Surely in a flood of great waters they will not reach him.

Jeremiah 24:7 'I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the LORD; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart.

Amos 5:4
For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel, "Seek Me that you may live."

Luke 13:34 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.


John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

If it were not possible to reject Gods calling, all men would be saved since Gods desire for US is that we receive and love the truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.


We have a choice in this life to receive or reject Him in this life, but that we cannot make that decision untill He prompts it with His Spirit (opens our eyes in order that we can respond)

Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.
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We absolutely NEED the leading of the Holy Spirit. He lets us know we're a lost soul in need of a Savior. He speaks to us through the Grace Gospel. He seals, indwells and baptizes (not by water) into the Body of Christ. He also gives us wisdom and knowledge to understand God's written word. Before Christ went to sit at the right hand of God the Father, He said, the Holy Spirit (Comforter) would come. He's with us today.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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God the Father dealt with the House of Israel in the Old Testament. God the Son ministered to the lost sheep and died for our sins and resurrected in the New Testament and now in this "Dispensation of Grace" God the Holy Spirit is with us. These three are ONE.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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A4T, you used Luke 13:34 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." A verse I often use to PROVE the free will of humanity. The bold sentance is what I call your attention to.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Don't get me wrong, AMR is articulate, intelligent, well-learned, and totally serving "Another gospel and another god." Sigh--

I don't have to prove it, however, I do have to believe it.
 
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Robert Pate

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Don't get me wrong, AMR is articulate, intelligent, well-learned, and totally serving "Another gospel and another god." Sigh--

I don't have to prove it, however, I do have to believe it.
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Everything will be decided in the judgment.

You will stand before the judge clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

AMR will stand before the judge in his sins, because he does not believe the Gospel.
 
TulipBee

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THE VERSE MOST HATED BY 'FREE-WILLERS' (ARMINIANS)


"As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed" (Acts 13:48).


A.W. Pink


Every artifice of human ingenuity has been employed to blunt the sharp edge of this Scripture and to explain away the obvious meaning of these words, but it has been employed in vain, though nothing will ever be able to reconcile this and similar passages to the mind of the natural man. "As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed."


Here we learn four things:


First, that believing is the consequence AND NOT THE CAUSE of God’s decree.


Second, that a LIMITED NUMBER only are "ordained to eternal life," for if all men without exception were thus ordained by God, then the words "as many as are a meaningless qualification.


Third, that this "ordination" of God is not to mere external privileges but to "eternal life," not to service but to SALVATION ITSELF.


Fourth, that ALL—"as many as," NOT ONE LESS—who are thus ordained by God to eternal life WILL most certainly believe.


The comments of the beloved Spurgeon on the above passage are well worthy of our notice. Said he -


"Attempts have been made to prove that these words do not teach predestination, but these attempts so clearly do violence to language that I shall not waste time in answering them. I read: ‘As many as were ordained to eternal life believed’, and I shall not twist the text but shall glorify the grace of God by ascribing to that grace the faith of every man.


Is it not God who gives the disposition to believe? If men are disposed to have eternal life, does not He—in every case—dispose them? Is it wrong for God to give grace? If it be right for Him to give it, is it wrong for Him to purpose to give it? Would you have Him give it by accident? If it is right for Him to purpose to give grace today, it was right for Him to purpose it before today—and, since He changes not—from eternity."


[ Quoted from A.W. Pink’s ‘Sovereignty of God’ ]

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Grosnick Marowbe

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Nang said:
Dead sinners absolutely NEED the LIFE and POWER of the Holy Spirit in order to respond in faith to the Gospel.

Regeneration by the Holy Spirit is nothing less than a RESURRECTION to new spiritual life.
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The Holy Spirit guides us to the Gospel, however, the choice is ours to accept or reject the Gospel. Because of our Free will.
 
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