Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I take the simple road of explaining "Free will" in the Spiritual sense. Free will to me means God created Humanity and the angelic beings with an ability to choose which course they will take in any given situation and, in humanities case, what they will choose to place their faith in. Humanity chooses where they will work, what they will eat, who they will marry, what religion they will embrace, etc. God allows us to make our own decisions regarding all things. He doesn't intervene except if it's an answer to prayer or He has a special interest in something. Basically, we are "Free-agents" when it comes to our life chooses.

What motives lie behind one's choices? We are not simply making random choices. What we choose is related to a complexity of nature, nurture, environment, and so on. What inclines the choices you make?

No one disputes God grants man the liberty of choice. When Scripture teaches us the lost cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14) what does that mean about that person's choices? When Scripture teaches us the lost is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), how does that impact "what they will choose to place their faith in"?

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Calvinism does in fact claim God is the one choosing and deciding what He has decreed. Calvinism does not say the moral agents simply sit around to wait and see what will happen. God actually decrees that these moral agents possess the liberty of spontaneity, choosing per their inclinations. God even tested our Federal Head, who failed the test during his probationary period and plunged all his progeny into ruin. In other words, all men are born in the sin of Adam and aare sinners from birth. Denying this doctrine of original sin lies at the root of many of your errors.

No one hears the Good News until they are given ears to hear, GM. You think you, as a lost man, were wise enough to choose rightly all by your lonesome. Scripture disagrees with you: Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14. Explain.

AMR

I NEVER posted anything about original sin. Get your facts straight before making unfounded accusations.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

By the way AMR, your aggravation is showing.

I am not aggravated, GM. I am just taking special effort to hold you to account for your opinions and proclamations, using your own words in hopes that you will actually be a man of your word. Either you persevere and provide answers to that which you hold dear and we are all edified or you just wither under cross examination. In both cases, God is glorified.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

That's not always the case.

Incorrect. It is always the case with properly cited Scripture verses. If you have problems using your browser, then that is your problem. Refresh the page or delete TOL cookies and start again.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

That's coming from your perception of yourself.

No. I said look it up. It is easy to test. I have. You are in error.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I don't see it the way you do AMR. Therefore, why not refrain from making unfounded accusations and perpetuating name calling. It makes you look angry and petty.

Point me to accusations that are unfounded. Namecalling? Point me to them. Or are they just "over there", that is, non-existent? :AMR:

AMR

 

[Angel4Truth]

Define "free will", GM.

Mine: the ability to choose according to one's greatest inclinations at the moment one so chooses.

Yours?

AMR

Raises hand. I would like to answer this after GM does. Let me know since i do not wish to disrupt the conversation you are both having.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Calvinism does in fact claim God is the one choosing and deciding what He has decreed. Calvinism does not say the moral agents simply sit around to wait and see what will happen. God actually decrees that these moral agents possess the liberty of spontaneity, choosing per their inclinations. God even tested our Federal Head, who failed the test during his probationary period and plunged all his progeny into ruin. In other words, all men are born in the sin of Adam and aare sinners from birth. Denying this doctrine of original sin lies at the root of many of your errors.

No one hears the Good News until they are given ears to hear, GM. You think you, as a lost man, were wise enough to choose rightly all by your lonesome. Scripture disagrees with you: Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14. Explain.

AMR

That bold sentence is not true. The Gospel is preached and anyone hearing it is capable of placing their faith in it. In fact, they MUST place their faith in it in order to receive eternal life. Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Raises hand. I would like to answer this after GM does. Let me know since i do not wish to disrupt the conversation you are both having.

Go right ahead.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Point me to accusations that are unfounded. Namecalling? Point me to them. Or are they just "over there", that is, non-existent? :AMR:

AMR

Watch out for your "Anger Issues" AMR, they might get the best of you?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Go right ahead.

Have you answered it yet?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No. I said look it up. It is easy to test. I have. You are in error.

AMR

I told you already, I don't follow Links.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Have you answered it yet?

Say what you want.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I am not aggravated, GM. I am just taking special effort to hold you to account for your opinions and proclamations, using your own words in hopes that you will actually be a man of your word. Either you persevere and provide answers to that which you hold dear and we are all edified or you just wither under cross examination. In both cases, God is glorified.

AMR

Sounds a wee bit like "Rationalization" to me.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Need I remind you AMR, this is NOT a courtroom situation.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Are you ready to have a discussion, your honor?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

That bold sentence is not true. The Gospel is preached and anyone hearing it is capable of placing their faith in it. In fact, they MUST place their faith in it in order to receive eternal life. Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

No. These verses must comport with the full counsel of Scripture. Our Lord was clear, only those given ears to hear can hear.

Those to whom God has granted a degree of spiritual perception will hear Him as He speaks through His Word, and it is them He addresses Himself.

There were, from what Our Lord said, two categories of people. One category was "having ears" and the other was "not having ears". Now, from the side of the "having ears" category, it was possible to have them but not use them. Jesus was telling those who had them to use them. But we typically ignore the other category. Jesus's statement, "He who has ears to hear, let him ear," requires that there be a particular group of people who does not have ears. Or, as follows from what Our Lord said, we might explain this to be, "I'm not telling you who have no ears to hear. I'm only telling those who have ears to hear."

I have also noted earlier that the lost cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). Given these clear teachings of Scripture, your statement that "anyone is capable of placing their faith" in the Gospel cannot mean what you claim unless you can reconcile such a view with other Scripture teachings quite the opposite.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I told you already, I don't follow Links.

I did not give you one.

Says the man who clicked a link to even respond above.

Sigh.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Need I remind you AMR, this is NOT a courtroom situation.

"Cross examination" of your opinions is not implying formal courts of law. It is but asking you about your opinions.

Keep trying, though. You will eventually find a reason to bow out.

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No. These verses must comport with the full counsel of Scripture. Our Lord was clear, only those given ears to hear can hear.

Those to whom God has granted a degree of spiritual perception will hear Him as He speaks through His Word, and it is them He addresses Himself.

There were, from what Our Lord said, two categories of people. One category was "having ears" and the other was "not having ears". Now, from the side of the "having ears" category, it was possible to have them but not use them. Jesus was telling those who had them to use them. But we typically ignore the other category. Jesus's statement, "He who has ears to hear, let him ear," requires that there be a particular group of people who does not have ears. Or, as follows from what Our Lord said, we might explain this to be, "I'm not telling you who have no ears to hear. I'm only telling those who have ears to hear."

I have also noted earlier that the lost cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). Given these clear teachings of Scripture, your statement that "anyone is capable of placing their faith" in the Gospel cannot mean what you claim unless you can reconcile such a view with other Scripture teaches quite the opposite.

AMR

I only read your first line. Calvinists believe that one must first be "Regenerated" then, they receive saving faith. This is putting the cart before the horse. Which, you will no doubt, disagree.