2 Cor 4.4 (Jesus, The God of this age!)

[way 2 go]

I know, but the verse never seemed right. Every time I read it, it felt wrong. To give satan the power to blind men. :nono: True, satan works on those who are unbelievers, but this so beyond his power and was predicted long ago, and it's spoken over while Jesus walked among us. The parables, and Paul's teachings in Romans 9-11.

Look at the context, and look at the what the Lord has promised He would do. We know He removes mercies from those who abuse them, and that's exactly what the Jews did when they crucified the Lord of Glory.

This is God talking here....about what He would do.

Isaiah 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
​

you know what we do not have in Isaiah 6:9 is God blinding anybody but we do have Isaiah sent.

and

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand

what we have here is parables not Jesus blinding anybody.

 

[God's Truth]

You have a partial truth....which is a full lie.

All you have are insults, what else did Satan give you? He doesn't have truth. Hard for you to defend yourself with truth when you don't have it. So then, you insult.

 

[glorydaz]

you know what we do not have in Isaiah 6:9 is God blinding anybody but we do have Isaiah sent.

and

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand

what we have here is parables not Jesus blinding anybody.

It's the same way God "hardened" pharaoh's heart......Pharaoh'a heart was hard already, and God just hardened it further.

God saw the Jews would reject their Messiah, and He sent Isaiah to inform them of what would be. So, God insured they would continue in blindness until a set time.

Isaiah 6:8-11 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,​

So we see it here...

Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.​

 

[marhig]

Scripture defines 'faith' as 'acting upon established Truth'.....and we know that Jesus is 'The Truth'.

So again....you have no earthly idea of what you speak...

You said "acting upon establish truth," so that means we have to be doers of the word then doesn't it? It's no good just saying "I believe" we have to live it out and live by the will of God. If we are to act upon the established truth, because Jesus established the truth and he told us that we are to live by the will of God.

Faith is having complete trust in God and leaving our lives in his hands, and if we have complete trust in God, then we will live by his will and we will live and act upon the truth.

But I'll tell you what's not the truth, that Jesus is the God of this world, and why?. Because he clearly says that he is not of this world and that Satan is the prince of this world and he had nothing in him! This world has nothing in Jesus he refused the kingdoms of the world that were offered to him by Satan because he loved his father and the kingdom of heaven more than this sinful world and the works of the flesh! The reason he came here was to bare witness to the truth, with the hope of saving as many as would believe in him from this world of sin and death by preaching the gospel, saving by the word of God and living by the will of God, thus he is the way, the truth, and the life and his way is the only way back to the father because he lived it out perfectly and he is bringing us a new and living way, and he is our perfect example to follow..

 

[marhig]

According to your theory, Jesus didn't need to come at all. God could have had John the Baptist preach this "new and living way". Of course you'd still have this minor detail called SIN.

Isaiah 59:2
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.​

Reconciled by His death is His PHYSICAL death, and the shedding of HIS actual blood. He came to die for the sins of the world, and He did die. Reconciling is making peace. Mankind was at enmity with God because of SIN. Jesus took the sins of world to the cross, and paid the price for sin in our place. You're quite the ingrate to suggest otherwise. :nono:

Colossians 1:20-22
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:​

What's horrible is that it was YOUR sin that He willingly died for, and you're too foolish to even see it.

The blood of his cross isn't the natural cross or the natural blood, you just can't see, I hope that one day your eyes are opened to the truth. Maybe you should listen to Isaiah in that chapter 59:2 that you have quoted, he said, but your iniquities have separated between you and your God and your sins have hid his face from you and that he will not hear.

Strange that, seeing as I believe that we are to turn from sin, something that you never ever agree with and you say that we are forgiven regardless of what we do! God never changes.

Numbers 23

God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man that he should repent, has he said and shall he not do it? Or has he spoken and shall he not make it good?

Malachi 3

For I am the LORD, I change not.

God changes not, his laws don't change and his ways don't change, we have to change to suit him not him to suit us.

And Jesus did need to come because he is the Christ, John the Baptist is not!

 

[Apple7]

All you have are insults, what else did Satan give you? He doesn't have truth. Hard for you to defend yourself with truth when you don't have it. So then, you insult.

Come back when you can discuss scripture...

 

[Apple7]

You said "acting upon establish truth," so that means we have to be doers of the word then doesn't it? It's no good just saying "I believe" we have to live it out and live by the will of God. If we are to act upon the established truth, because Jesus established the truth and he told us that we are to live by the will of God.

Faith is having complete trust in God and leaving our lives in his hands, and if we have complete trust in God, then we will live by his will and we will live and act upon the truth.

But I'll tell you what's not the truth, that Jesus is the God of this world, and why?. Because he clearly says that he is not of this world and that Satan is the prince of this world and he had nothing in him! This world has nothing in Jesus he refused the kingdoms of the world that were offered to him by Satan because he loved his father and the kingdom of heaven more than this sinful world and the works of the flesh! The reason he came here was to bare witness to the truth, with the hope of saving as many as would believe in him from this world of sin and death by preaching the gospel, saving by the word of God and living by the will of God, thus he is the way, the truth, and the life and his way is the only way back to the father because he lived it out perfectly and he is bringing us a new and living way, and he is our perfect example to follow..

You need to read Hebrews to clear your confusion.

Again...The Holy Bible defines 'Faith' as 'acting upon established Truth'.

This established Truth has the Son as the originator, and the examples provided for 'Faith' are Trinitarian in the Book of Hebrews.

Thus...'Faith' is acting upon the Trinity.

 

[glorydaz]

The blood of his cross isn't the natural cross or the natural blood, you just can't see,

:mock: marhig

I hope that one day your eyes are opened to the truth.

You should be praying yours are opened.

Maybe you should listen to Isaiah in that chapter 59:2 that you have quoted, he said, but your iniquities have separated between you and your God and your sins have hid his face from you and that he will not hear.

It's true. YOUR sins have separated you from God. You trying not to sin doesn't make your sins disappear. :duh:

Strange that, seeing as I believe that we are to turn from sin, something that you never ever agree with and you say that we are forgiven regardless of what we do! God never changes.

Oh, so all those sins you committed in the past, and those you commit now and in the future (in spite of your best efforts).....just magically go away? Is that your claim?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.​

Yeah, that preaching of the cross isn't really a "natural cross"....that would just be mean.



You are lost. You deny Jesus Christ is God. You deny the Cross on which He came to die for the sins of the world, and you deny the Blood He shed.....without which there would be NO PEACE with God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You need to read Hebrews to clear your confusion.

Again...The Holy Bible defines 'Faith' as 'acting upon established Truth'.

The Holy Bible defines "Faith" as "Acting on your beliefs".

This established Truth has the Son as the originator, and the examples provided for 'Faith' are Trinitarian in the Book of Hebrews.

Thus...'Faith' is acting upon the Trinity.

No, that is not Biblical.

 

[Apple7]

The Holy Bible defines "Faith" as "Acting on your beliefs".

No, that is not Biblical.

The Book of Hebrews disagrees with you...

 

[marhig]

You need to read Hebrews to clear your confusion.

Again...The Holy Bible defines 'Faith' as 'acting upon established Truth'.

This established Truth has the Son as the originator, and the examples provided for 'Faith' are Trinitarian in the Book of Hebrews.

Thus...'Faith' is acting upon the Trinity.

Where does it say that in Hebrews?

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Book of Hebrews disagrees with you...

I have read the book of Hebrews several times and have never found anything in it that claims that 'Faith' is 'acting upon established Truth'.
Your assertions that it makes that claim are false.

 

[marhig]

:mock: marhig



You should be praying yours are opened.





It's true. YOUR sins have separated you from God. You trying not to sin doesn't make your sins disappear. :duh:



Oh, so all those sins you committed in the past, and those you commit now and in the future (in spite of your best efforts).....just magically go away? Is that your claim?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.​

Yeah, that preaching of the cross isn't really a "natural cross"....that would just be mean.



You are lost. You deny Jesus Christ is God. You deny the Cross on which He came to die for the sins of the world, and you deny the Blood He shed.....without which there would be NO PEACE with God.

All the sins I did in ignorance before I truly knew God, and I then repented of, i believe that God has forgiven. All the sins I do and don't realise at the time that I was doing wrong, and I truly repent when I realise it's wrong, I also believe God will forgive them. If I'm sinning knowing it's wrong before God, I believe that God will chastise me for that and I will suffer for it. And if I carry on purposely sinning when I know that it's wrong and go against the will of God, then I believe that God will give me over to my reprobate mind and leave me to it, unless I turn to him again and turn away from sin. God doesn't stay in a person's unrepentant heart that purposely sins and goes against his will knowing the truth. I believe we are then held accountable for our actions. As Jesus said, because you say you see, your sin remains. And Paul said that we will be judged on what we do, good and bad.

1 Peter 4

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

 

[glorydaz]

All the sins I did in ignorance before I truly knew God, and I then repented of, i believe that God has forgiven. All the sins I do and don't realise at the time that I was doing wrong, and I truly repent when I realise it's wrong, I also believe God will forgive them.

Yet you reject Christ's death on the cross as unnecessary, and a work of satan.

Let me guess....you still believe in the tooth fairy, don't you?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You are and it is what you need. Who else butt's in as speaks ill towards another as you just did?

The truth hurts.

Those who preach a doctrine of death go against me and that is who you are.

Is that something said ill of another?

You don't believe in the life of the spirit after the death of the body,

I do not believe one is conscious when one is dead.

and you don't believe that God came as a man.

The Holy Spirit prepared the man Jesus by the word of God, that the Father could come and dwell in Him.

What else are you going to say to me but things from Satan?

God loves you.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The blood of his cross isn't the natural cross or the natural blood, you just can't see, I hope that one day your eyes are opened to the truth. Maybe you should listen to Isaiah in that chapter 59:2 that you have quoted, he said, but your iniquities have separated between you and your God and your sins have hid his face from you and that he will not hear.

Strange that, seeing as I believe that we are to turn from sin, something that you never ever agree with and you say that we are forgiven regardless of what we do! God never changes.

Numbers 23

God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man that he should repent, has he said and shall he not do it? Or has he spoken and shall he not make it good?

Malachi 3

For I am the LORD, I change not.

God changes not, his laws don't change and his ways don't change, we have to change to suit him not him to suit us.

And Jesus did need to come because he is the Christ, John the Baptist is not!

While Gloydaz does believe she is forgiven all past present and future sins without repenting, nevertheless none can be forgiven eternally without Christ having settled the debt of man toward God through His sacrifice of his human life at the cross.

LA

 

[glorydaz]

While Gloydaz does believe she is forgiven all past present and future sins without repenting, nevertheless none can be forgiven eternally without Christ having settled the debt of man toward God through His sacrifice of his human life at the cross.

LA

Repenting is a change of mind...believing. But, at least you know the Cross and Christ's death were necessary for forgiveness of sin. :thumb:

 

[way 2 go]

It's the same way God "hardened" pharaoh's heart......Pharaoh'a heart was hard already, and God just hardened it further.

God saw the Jews would reject their Messiah, and He sent Isaiah to inform them of what would be. So, God insured they would continue in blindness until a set time.

Isaiah 6:8-11 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. 10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. 11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,​

So we see it here...

Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.​

:think:

no matter how many times I read it
"god of this age" is like "ruler of this age"
and I know who the ruler of this age is
and do not see God sharing that title .

&

theos is not reserved for the only true God
Act 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god(theos)Remphan


:carryon:

 

[glorydaz]

:think:

no matter how many times I read it
"god of this age" is like "ruler of this age"
and I know who the ruler of this age is
and do not see God sharing that title .

&

theos is not reserved for the only true God
Act 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god(theos)Remphan


:carryon:

I think that in Acts 7:43 is "theou" not theos. I'm no expert on any difference. :idunno:

Anyway, I've read it that way myself for a long time, but how is it that satan is blinding the minds of those who are unbelievers? That is my question. We know some remain in darkness because they love the darkness more than the light. If that's how satan is blinding the minds of the unbelievers, then it's only indirectly....as I suggested in the beginning. Those would be the lusts of the eyes, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life. Satan would only be allowing the world to do the work of blinding in that case. Which may be what Paul is saying. Satan's ability to blind mankind can never be by his direct power.

When I look at where the verse in question is situated....concerning the veil that remained over the eyes of those were rejecting the Gospel of Grace, it would be those who were rejecting Jesus Christ Himself. When I look at people here on this site who deny the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, I see they are the ones who are blind to Paul's Gospel of Grace. They are workers, trusting in themselves...they are those who stumble over the Rock of Offense. It isn't that they love the darkness over the light...they just flat out deny the LIGHT, Himself.

Until a person recognizes the Light, Himself, they are blind to the Gospel of Grace and continue to try and earn their salvation. I can't help but see a connection.

 

[way 2 go]

I think that in Acts 7:43 is "theou" not theos. I'm no expert on any difference. :idunno:

Anyway, I've read it that way myself for a long time, but how is it that satan is blinding the minds of those who are unbelievers? That is my question.

my question is why add "this age" if it is as you say Paul would have just said God

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds

or Paul could have wrote

it is God that hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

We know some remain in darkness because they love the darkness more than the light. If that's how satan is blinding the minds of the unbelievers, then it's only indirectly....as I suggested in the beginning. Those would be the lusts of the eyes, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life. Satan would only be allowing the world to do the work of blinding in that case. Which may be what Paul is saying. Satan's ability to blind mankind can never be by his direct power.

When I look at where the verse in question is situated....concerning the veil that remained over the eyes of those were rejecting the Gospel of Grace, it would be those who were rejecting Jesus Christ Himself. When I look at people here on this site who deny the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, I see they are the ones who are blind to Paul's Gospel of Grace. They are workers, trusting in themselves...they are those who stumble over the Rock of Offense. It isn't that they love the darkness over the light...they just flat out deny the LIGHT, Himself.

Until a person recognizes the Light, Himself, they are blind to the Gospel of Grace and continue to try and earn their salvation. I can't help but see a connection.

satan blinds with lies like evolution or works based religion