2 Cor 4.4 (Jesus, The God of this age!)

[marhig]

Yes, and I'm glad you at least looked up the verse. :chuckle:

Did you read it? Did you understand it? Can you apply it to the Cross? opcorn:

I didn't look up anything, i knew!

 

[glorydaz]

God puts his people through suffering to bring forth good,

Spoiler

just as Abraham, Moses, Noah, isaiah etc all suffered in the flesh to save others. And they suffered as they went into the world to bring God to others, they put themselves last and lived by the will of God, so did Jesus. If they hadn't of lived by the will of God, then they couldn't have brought anyone out or saved them.

They went in against evil and suffered to do the will of God. And those who truly love God will do his will and partake in the sufferings of Christ and deny themselves, turn from sin and the works of the flesh, to live by the will of God and die to self so that Christ can live through them and save as many as will believe in the gospel of God, the word of truth and God through Christ will strengthen them to bare the suffering if they remain in his goodness she obey him. And they will be in the world but not of the world, just as Christ Jesus was in the world but not of this world.

We were talking in our house meeting last night about Abraham, and how he wanted to go into Sodom and save as many as possible, and God was willing for it. But it was the hardness of men's hearts and their love of the lusts of the flesh that prevented them from being saved and they were destroyed, only Lot and his family were saved, but even his wife looked back, and it's the same today, God wants us all back, he loves everyone, but not everyone wants him, they love their flesh and this life before him, that the hardness of their hearts, keeps them in the darkness of this world. Those who come out of the world should never look back, but walk in the light of God and in the Spirit and not go back to wanting to build up in the flesh and the ways of the world again.

:troll:

Your constant sermonizing does not cover up your foolish declarations that the Cross was not God's plan for Salvation from the beginning. Even while you proclaim "God puts his people through suffering to bring forth good."

He would never come in the flesh and suffer to bring forth salvation. :chuckle:



Go back to Sunday School....you won't ever come out until you confess Jesus Christ as Lord God Almighty....Creator of heaven and earth.

 

[glorydaz]

I didn't look up anything, i knew!

I can tell.....you're such a fount of religious babble.

 

[marhig]

Your constant sermonizing does not cover up your foolish declarations that the Cross was not God's plan for Salvation from the beginning. Even while you proclaim "God puts his people through suffering to bring forth good."

He would never come in the flesh and suffer to bring forth salvation. :chuckle:



Go back to Sunday School....you won't ever come out until you confess Jesus Christ as Lord God Almighty....Creator of heaven and earth.

Jesus said

John 18

To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[glorydaz]

No...One has to live by the will of God and obey him to know God, if we are not willing to live by the will of God, then we will never know him.

And Christ Jesus clearly says, that those who enter into the kingdom of heaven are those who live by the will of the father. And we can study the scriptures all our lives, but without the Spirit we won't have the understanding, and it says in Acts 5, that we receive the Holy Spirit when we obey God.

I have never seen in the Bible that we have to believe that Jesus is God to know God. Can you show me the chapter and verse please?

It's in Gen. 1 and ends in the last book of Revelation. Look it up yourself.

 

[marhig]

I can tell.....you're such a fount of religious babble.

At least I got it right!

Right I'm off, busy day ahead!

 

[marhig]

It's in Gen. 1 and ends in the last book of Revelation. Look it up yourself.

No it isn't!

Ok I'm off for now.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus said

John 18

To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

And you, like poor Pilate, had no clue what that truth was.

John 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

 

[glorydaz]

At least I got it right!

Right I'm off, busy day ahead!

Got it right? :rotfl:

 

[marhig]

And you, like poor Pilate, had no clue what that truth was.

John 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

Yet even Pilate knew there was no fault in him, and Pilates wife had a dream and she told Pilate not to touch Jesus because he is a just man.

Matthew 27

When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.

And Pilate washed his hands of it all and the Jews said let his blood be on us, and it was!

Matthew 27

And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Pilate knew the truth more than the Jews who wanted to crucify and kill Jesus, and have his blood on their heads and on their children

Speak soon, God willing.

 

[glorydaz]

Yet even Pilate knew there was no fault in him, and Pilates wife had a dream and she told Pilate not to touch Jesus because he is a just man.

Matthew 27

When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.

And Pilate washed his hands of it all and the Jews said let his blood be on us, and it was!

Matthew 27

And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Pilate knew the truth more than the Jews who wanted to crucify and kill Jesus, and have his blood on their heads and on their children

Speak soon, God willing.

Quite the evasion.....just admit you don't know what the truth was that Jesus was talking about.

Pilate didn't either, in spite of your speechifying. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

Quite the evasion.....just admit you don't know what the truth was that Jesus was talking about.

Pilate didn't either, in spite of your speechifying. :chuckle:

:chew:

1 Tim. 6:13-16 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.​

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Matthew 6

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Luke 6

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

Mark 11

And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses

1 John 9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Acts 3

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Acts 10

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ok, I believe in and confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and I believe in my heart that God him raised him from the dead. I repent and I forgive anyone who has ever done anything to me.

So who are you, or anyone else here to say that I won't be forgiven or I won't be saved?

I did not say that. Do not use such as defense for your inability to acknowledge the price paid for our redemption.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Your constant sermonizing does not cover up your foolish declarations that the Cross was not God's plan for Salvation from the beginning. Even while you proclaim "God puts his people through suffering to bring forth good."

He would never come in the flesh and suffer to bring forth salvation. :chuckle:



Go back to Sunday School....you won't ever come out until you confess Jesus Christ as Lord God Almighty....Creator of heaven and earth.

Jesus Christ is Lord, not LORD. He was made Lord by His Father, who is the LORD.

No such confession that Jesus is the LORD was ever a requirement for salvation.

LA

 

[marhig]

I did not say that. Do not use such as defense for your inability to acknowledge the price paid for our redemption.

LA

Yes LA you said this

nevertheless none can be forgiven eternally without Christ having settled the debt of man toward God through His sacrifice of his human life at the cross.

I don't believe this, so does that mean to you that I'm not forgiven?

I have given you verses that show us that we can be forgiven without Jesus dying in the cross to settle our sins.

We are saved through Christ Jesus through faith by the grace of God, when we hear the gospel, believe and repent and turn from sin and then when we start to obey God, he will bless us with the Spirit in his time and the Spirit will start to work in us and change our heart to be more like that of Christ. And how do I know this? Because God has helped me to forgive people in my life that i really suffered at the hands of, especially one person, and I could never have forgiven them without God. I was so hard against them. But that hardness is gone, God had blessed me and helped me to overcome and now I don't have any hardness against them at all, and I would help them if they needed help, I could never ever have done that without God, and I won't be forgiven of my sins if I hold hardness against others and I know that God forgives me as I forgive others and that's one thing I thought I could never do with certain people. But wiith God all things are possible. And Jesus has showed us the way.

No-one can say that other people aren't saved because they don't believe as they do, there will be many who follow Jesus, who love him and God from their heart, who live by the will of God, who don't believe that Jesus is God or don't believe that Jesus being crucified saves us, who will belong to God and Christ. It's the heart that counts and whether we have truly repented when we hear the truth, and are willing to obey God and live by his will and to do this is to truly follow Jesus and worship God in Spirit and in truth.

 

[marhig]

:chew:

1 Tim. 6:13-16 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.​

And I agree with those verses.

 

[NWL]

εν οις ο θεος του αιωνος τουτου ετυφλωσεν τα νοηματα των απιστων εις το μη αυγασαι τον φωτισμον του ευαγγελιου της δοξης του χριστου ος εστιν εικων του θεου

en hois ho Theos tou aiōnos toutou etyphlōsen ta noēmata tōn apistōn eis to mē augasai ton phōtismon tou euangeliou tēs doxes tou Christou hos estin eikōn tou Theou

In whom The God of this age has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the brightness of the gospel of The Glory, The Christ who is the image of God, should not dawn on them. (2 Cor 4.4)


Contrary to popular modern belief, ‘The God of this age’, (ho Theos tou aiōnos toutou), actually pertains to Jesus Christ and NOT Satan, and provides yet another potent scriptural proof for Jesus’ deity.

Outside of 2 Cor 4.4, the only other inflections of ‘blinded’ (i.e. etyphlōsen & etyphlōken), used in the entire NT, are located in John 12, and 1 John 2, and have Jesus as the subject:

• John 12 records that Isaiah wrote about Jesus, ‘The Arm of God’, ‘His Glory’ as blinding the thoughts of the unbelievers.

• 1 John 2 records without Jesus’ light, the unbelievers are blinded.


Contextually, the epithets contained within 2 Cor 4, including Theos, relate to Jesus…not to Satan.

(2 Corinthians 4:3, 4) "..If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.."

Does Jesus do acts which against himself? Is Jesus counter productive? I would think not!

As can be seen by v3 they were declaring the good news as instructed by Jesus (Matt 28:19), yet it was being veiled. According to your reasoning, Jesus was the one who was veiling it, yet at the same time instructed them to preach it which is completely nonsensical.

Ironic, you like the Pharisees claim Jesus worked against himself, what did Jesus say in regards to that?

 At hearing this, the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Be·elʹze·bub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand? (Matt 12:24) Jesus kingdom certainly isn't and never will be divided, as your reasoning would imply.

Moreover, Jesus, if part of a trinity, was not the God of an age(greek: aión)but rather the God of eternity. As can be seen from the verse the god mentioned is a god of that age. At the time of Jesus life on earth Satan was the ruler, or god, of the world as clearly shown in scripture.

(John 14:30) "..I will not speak with you much more, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me.."

(Ephesians 2:2) "..in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.."

(1 John 5:19) "..We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.."

 

[genuineoriginal]

my question is why add "this age"

Paul added "this age" because this is the age where God has blinded the minds of them which believe not.
In the "age to come", there will be no blinding of the minds.

 

[Danoh]

This here...

2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Is an opposite of this "handling" here...

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And so on...

And this age the god of this age is said to be trafficking his blindness in, is a reference to this Mystery age, which is itself, a temporary age within Israel's then presently on hold Prophetic age.

But the reference to this age goes all the way back to Genesis 3, see Eph. 2:2,3; etc.

It was back there in The Garden that the god or lord or prince of this age, caused Adam through Eve, to lose his God given dominion over this Earth...

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

That ended badly for Adam and his offspring...

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

But not forever...

For this...

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Will end with this...

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

After this...

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Acts 17: 11, 12

 

[Danoh]

Unless, as some have been erroneously implying, Christ will be throwing Himself into that lake of fire.

:doh:

Isaiah 8:20