2 Cor 4.4 (Jesus, The God of this age!)

[marhig]

While Gloydaz does believe she is forgiven all past present and future sins without repenting, nevertheless none can be forgiven eternally without Christ having settled the debt of man toward God through His sacrifice of his human life at the cross.

LA

Matthew 6

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Luke 6

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

Mark 11

And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses

1 John 9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Acts 3

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Acts 10

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ok, I believe in and confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and I believe in my heart that God him raised him from the dead. I repent and I forgive anyone who has ever done anything to me.

So who are you, or anyone else here to say that I won't be forgiven or I won't be saved?

 

[marhig]

I think that in Acts 7:43 is "theou" not theos. I'm no expert on any difference. :idunno:

Anyway, I've read it that way myself for a long time, but how is it that satan is blinding the minds of those who are unbelievers? That is my question. We know some remain in darkness because they love the darkness more than the light. If that's how satan is blinding the minds of the unbelievers, then it's only indirectly....as I suggested in the beginning. Those would be the lusts of the eyes, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life. Satan would only be allowing the world to do the work of blinding in that case. Which may be what Paul is saying. Satan's ability to blind mankind can never be by his direct power.

When I look at where the verse in question is situated....concerning the veil that remained over the eyes of those were rejecting the Gospel of Grace, it would be those who were rejecting Jesus Christ Himself. When I look at people here on this site who deny the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, I see they are the ones who are blind to Paul's Gospel of Grace. They are workers, trusting in themselves...they are those who stumble over the Rock of Offense. It isn't that they love the darkness over the light...they just flat out deny the LIGHT, Himself.

Until a person recognizes the Light, Himself, they are blind to the Gospel of Grace and continue to try and earn their salvation. I can't help but see a connection.

How can Jesus be the God of this world when he says this?

John 18

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


And Satan is the power of darkness, God hands those who love the world and flesh before him, over to Satan and Satan keeps them darkness. Until they believe and repent.

Satan is darkness, God is light and Christ brings the light to those who are in the darkness of this world.

Matthew 4

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[marhig]

my question is why add "this age" if it is as you say Paul would have just said God

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds

or Paul could have wrote

it is God that hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,


satan blinds with lies like evolution or works based religion

Satan blinds with lies like saying that we are saved regardless of what we do, even if we carry on wilfully sinning!

 

[Apple7]

Where does it say that in Hebrews?

In the examples set forth in Heb 11.

Heb 12.2 concludes these examples with the proclamation that Jesus is the Originator and Finisher of our Faith.

 

[Apple7]

I have read the book of Hebrews several times and have never found anything in it that claims that 'Faith' is 'acting upon established Truth'.
Your assertions that it makes that claim are false.

Try reading the definition of the term.

So simple...

 

[marhig]

Yet you reject Christ's death on the cross as unnecessary, and a work of satan.

Let me guess....you still believe in the tooth fairy, don't you?

Yes murdering Jesus on the cross was definitely the work of Satan, because those men who did it went directly against the commandments of God and bare false witness against Jesus and murdered him. Jesus said it was their hour and the power of darkness, and Jesus said those who have handed me over to you have committed a greater sin. God is not darkness, he's not sin, so it was not the work of God that had Jesus crucified!

God foreknew what would happen to Jesus and he foretold it through his prophets, and Jesus was willing to bare the suffering including the death in the cross to bare witness to the truth and save as many as will believe in him and believe the gospel of God. If Jesus hadn't of bore the suffering and if he had have walked away from the cross, then Satan would have overcome him. But he never he suffered everything that was set before him, and he overcame Satan and this world. And he overcame his evil with goodness and forgiveness. Satan crucified Jesus through wicked men, and Jesus forgave the wicked men by the power of God.

If Jesus had to ask God to forgive them for murdering him, then what they did to him was a sin before God.

As Jesus said, for if they can do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in a dry!

 

[Apple7]

God is not darkness, he's not sin, so it was not the work of God that had Jesus crucified!

We are still waiting for you to refute this passage that declares that Jesus is God.

You pretended it didn't exist before, and ignored it.....will you do the same this time around...?


προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

 

[marhig]

In the examples set forth in Heb 11.

Heb 12.2 concludes these examples with the proclamation that Jesus is the Originator and Finisher of our Faith.

Where does it say that the examples provided for faith are Trinitarian?

And Jesus is the originator and finisher of our faith because he came and brought us a new and living way to follow, he came and showed us how to live by faith, and he is our perfect example to follow.

 

[glorydaz]

my question is why add "this age" if it is as you say Paul would have just said God

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds

or Paul could have wrote

it is God that hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

Well, the previous age was taken up with the Law, and Christ was hidden.

I'm thinking it's in the context, and is even clearer in Youngs - possibly because it allows one to see with a new lens.

I'm thinking this Gospel Age of Grace....during this age when God has been revealed as Emmanuel....GOD WITH US. It's interesting that it's the law that seems to be in competition with confessing Jesus Christ as LORD GOD.

2 Cor. 3:14 but their minds were hardened, for unto this day the same vail at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn -- which in Christ is being made useless -- 15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a vail upon their heart doth lie, 16 and whenever they may turn unto the Lord, the vail is taken away.​

2 Corinthians 4:3
3 and if also our good news is vailed, in those perishing it is vailed,

2 Corinthians 4:4
4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;

2 Cor. 4:6 because [it is] God who said, Out of darkness light [is] to shine, who did shine in our hearts, for the enlightening of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

 

[marhig]

We are still waiting for you to refute this passage that declares that Jesus is God.

You pretended it didn't exist before, and ignored it.....will you do the same this time around...?


προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

I don't understand the language, and you tell me in English please.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me why I shouldn't believe the verses where Jesus declares that the father is the only true God and that God sent him and the he is his God, and where Jesus says that the father is greater than him. And the verses where the apostles say that God is the God and father of Christ Jesus, and where Paul says that the head of Christ is God.

Why shouldn't I believe them, shall I print all the verses again and you can maybe give me a reason for each one and tell me why I shouldn't believe them?

 

[Apple7]

Where does it say that the examples provided for faith are Trinitarian?

Heb 11, the entire chapter...

1) Heb 11.3….Gen 1
2) Heb 11.4….Gen 4
3) Heb 11.5….Gen 5
4) Heb 11.7….Gen 6
5) Heb 11.8….Gen 15
6) Heb 11.9…Gen 18
7) Heb 11.11…Gen 18
8) Heb 11.17…Gen 22


Etc, etc. etc...

And Jesus is the originator and finisher of our faith because he came and brought us a new and living way to follow, he came and showed us how to live by faith, and he is our perfect example to follow.

The examples provided in Heb 11, are from the OT, and have Jesus in them...thus, Jesus is God.

 

[marhig]

Heb 11, the entire chapter...

1)Heb 11.3….Gen 1
2)Heb 11.4….Gen 4
3)Heb 11.5….Gen 5
4)Heb 11.7….Gen 6
5)Heb 11.8….Gen 15
6)Heb 11.9…Gen 18
7)Heb 11.11…Gen 18
8)Heb 11.17…Gen 22


Etc, etc. etc...





The examples provided in Heb 11, are from the OT, and have Jesus in them...thus, Jesus is God.

Nothing there mentions the trinity! Which verse mentions the trinity?

 

[Apple7]

I don't understand the language, and you tell me in English please.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me why I shouldn't believe the verses where Jesus declares that the father is the only true God and that God sent him and the he is his God, and where Jesus says that the father is greater than him. And the verses where the apostles say that God is the God and father of Christ Jesus, and where Paul says that the head of Christ is God.

Why shouldn't I believe them, shall I print all the verses again and you can maybe give me a reason for each one and tell me why I shouldn't believe them?

Thanks for your open admission that you are not bright enough, nor do you have the fortitude to study God's word in the languages in which it was first penned.

Knowing this fact....how is it that you think that you can dictate your worldview to ANYONE at all, and expect them to believe anything you have to contribute?

Answer....you can't.

You have nothing...

 

[marhig]

Thanks for your open admission that you are not bright enough, nor do you have the fortitude to study God's word in the languages in which it was first penned.

Knowing this fact....how is it that you think that you can dictate your worldview to ANYONE at all, and expect them to believe anything you have to contribute?

Answer....you can't.

You have nothing...

So everyone has to understand Hebrew to know God?

 

[glorydaz]

Yes murdering Jesus on the cross was definitely the work of Satan, because those men who did it went directly against the commandments of God and bare false witness against Jesus and murdered him. Jesus said it was their hour and the power of darkness, and Jesus said those who have handed me over to you have committed a greater sin. God is not darkness, he's not sin, so it was not the work of God that had Jesus crucified!

You're so naive. It's hard to believe you have ever read a word of the OT. You probably haven't.

God has used evil deeds and evil men from the beginning to fulfill His purposes.
The best example (other than Christ's crucifixion) is when Daniel's brother threw him into a pit and left him to die. Years later, Daniel told his brothers this.....

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.​

This coming as a human being and dying on the Cross was God's plan of Salvation from the very beginning. And you have the gall to claim the Cross was NOT God's plan ....but satan's and man's. :nono:

 

[marhig]

You're so naive. It's hard to believe you have ever read a word of the OT. You probably haven't.

God has used evil deeds and evil men from the beginning to fulfill His purposes.
The best example (other than Christ's crucifixion) is when Daniel's brother threw him into a pit and left him to die. Years later, Daniel told his brothers this.....

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.​

This coming as a human being and dying on the Cross was God's plan of Salvation from the very beginning. And you have the gall to claim the Cross was NOT God's plan ....but satan's and man's. :nono:

Do you mean Joseph? See I do read the OT!

 

[glorydaz]

So everyone has to understand Hebrew to know God?

You can listen and learn. But, you refuse. We have members of the body of Christ right here on this site who try and share what Scriptures say...in the Hebrew or in the Greek or according to the years they've spent studying God's word, but you are too enamoured of your own fleshly understanding to hear spiritual things.

In answer to your question....One has to know Jesus is God to understand spiritual things. You don't.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you mean Joseph? See I do read the OT!

Yes, and I'm glad you at least looked up the verse. :chuckle:

Did you read it? Did you understand it? Can you apply it to the Cross? opcorn:

 

[marhig]

You're so naive. It's hard to believe you have ever read a word of the OT. You probably haven't.

God has used evil deeds and evil men from the beginning to fulfill His purposes.
The best example (other than Christ's crucifixion) is when Daniel's brother threw him into a pit and left him to die. Years later, Daniel told his brothers this.....

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.​

This coming as a human being and dying on the Cross was God's plan of Salvation from the very beginning. And you have the gall to claim the Cross was NOT God's plan ....but satan's and man's. :nono:

God puts his people through suffering to bring forth good, just as Abraham, Moses, Noah, isaiah etc all suffered in the flesh to save others. And they suffered as they went into the world to bring God to others, they put themselves last and lived by the will of God, so did Jesus. If they hadn't of lived by the will of God, then they couldn't have brought anyone out or saved them.

They went in against evil and suffered to do the will of God. And those who truly love God will do his will and partake in the sufferings of Christ and deny themselves, turn from sin and the works of the flesh, to live by the will of God and die to self so that Christ can live through them and save as many as will believe in the gospel of God, the word of truth and God through Christ will strengthen them to bare the suffering if they remain in his goodness and obey him. And they will be in the world but not of the world, just as Christ Jesus was in the world but not of this world.

We were talking in our house meeting last night about Abraham, and how he wanted to go into Sodom and save as many as possible, and God was willing for it. But it was the hardness of men's hearts and their love of the lusts of the flesh that prevented them from being saved and they were destroyed, only Lot and his family were saved, but even his wife looked back, and it's the same today, God wants us all back, he loves everyone, but not everyone wants him, they love their flesh and this life before him, that the hardness of their hearts, keeps them in the darkness of this world. Those who come out of the world should never look back, but walk in the light of God and in the Spirit and not go back to wanting to build up in the flesh and the ways of the world again.

 

[marhig]

You can listen and learn. But, you refuse. We have members of the body of Christ right here on this site who try and share what Scriptures say...in the Hebrew or in the Greek or according to the years they've spent studying God's word, but you are too enamoured of your own fleshly understanding to hear spiritual things.

In answer to your question....One has to know Jesus is God to understand spiritual things. You don't.

No...One has to live by the will of God and obey him to know God, if we are not willing to live by the will of God, then we will never know him.

And Christ Jesus clearly says, that those who enter into the kingdom of heaven are those who live by the will of the father. And we can study the scriptures all our lives, but without the Spirit we won't have the understanding, and it says in Acts 5, that we receive the Holy Spirit when we obey God.

I have never seen in the Bible that we have to believe that Jesus is God to know God. Can you show me the chapter and verse please?