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  • See my last posts,..I've kinda let the Colossians issue go, and JS is still pushing 'proof' of Jesus pre-existence by that passage. What I think would be a great seg-way thread would be like "Did Jesus pre-exist his incarnation?" - that would be a hot potato. It seems you differentiate between the man Jesus and the 'Logos' of God, the 'logos' aspect being that which pre-exists, is this correct? I can differentiate between Jesus and 'Christ' in similar ways, but a lot is mere semantics at the end of the day. I mentioned the concept of 'Agency' being important here, that 'God' is the Creator or 'creative intelligence' and He can use any 'agent' or 'agency' he wants! - the cosmos still carries on by universal laws and principles, so I learn a lot on that end with Theosophy, which makes me a bit too 'eclectic' for some fundies,...but I have other surprises too, verging near comical :) - anyways,...lest I babble on lol
    Ah! Careful daqq....that could pop a few Trinitarian blood vessels LOL. - I see some of your points,....since 'Elohim' is pretty flexible anyways,....just like how I write 'God' in quotation marks. - it covers deity, angels and men,...depending on context. I'm on a roll, - there are 2-3 threads though,....on this same subject more or less...that kinda thins us out. hmmmm
    Just an idea....watching some more videos. I think a thread on "Did Jesus pre-exist as God the Son?" would be a real hot potato. Not that we dont ALREADY have enough Unitarian/Trinitarian debate theread going (headspin). Global Impact Ministries has some well made/informative videos up at Youtube on these issues. I'm still exploring some adoptionist, arian and gnostic viewpoints. But in the long run, the import of doing God's will of course always holds. - just these fun little details can keep u on ur toes :)
    See here - sorry, dont meant to make the Trinity sound so confusing ;) - If Jesus is YHWH, then Jesus is the Father and we guess the Holy Spirit is also YHWH, so that YHWH is a universal name or acronym for 'God'. So,....no worries,...one 'name' covers all 3 personalities :) fun eh?
    Yes, I'm usually quite discreet when talking about other people, hence my trying to PM you :) - like I said,...I may finalize my thoughts on the Revelation passages, since its just 'going in circles'. My Christology is actually more transcendental....but I thought I'd play closer to the Unitarian/Trinitarian tunes, for the sake of discussion, but some minds are pretty 'set'. You did mention that if Jesus is Yahweh, this poses problems for the Trinity formula,...perhaps we could tag-team that issue in one of the threads, or come up with a new thread idea on this. And watch the 'heretic hunters' rally the troops after us. Just another day at the funny farm :crackup:
    Daqq,....u need to go into your Private Messages and delete messages to make room for more, I cant send u anything, ur inbox if FULL. Thank you.

    hi daqq,

    I think I'm gonna end my dialogue with Jerry Shugart on the 'Jesus is God' thing,...have u been following our discussion? I've been treating his verses on Jesus in Revelation,...he is stuck on some points that seem kinda redundant. I was gonna tackle next the verses in John that seem to say Jesus is from 'heaven', or was in heaven with God before coming down to earth. I think one so steeped in a Trinitarian mindset...its major 'gridlock' :) - oh well,...thoughts appreciated.
    Namaste :) - well, jumped back into the trinity debate again,...although its a circular river ;)
    check out the link,....for info on the Keys of Enoch itself,.....there are other offerings. The KOE are a modern day text given to JJ Hurtak in 1973 I think, ....from Enoch and Metatron :) anyways,...interesting texts with 64 keys of mans bio-spiritual evolution, and cosmic ascension...fun stuff eh? - anyways,...I'm sure if u look into it u'll see if it resonates with you or not.
    Do you know the scriptures in the OT that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV concerning the DBR?
    Hi daqq....it appears you're more of a messianic Jewish persuasion, a Hebraic roots kinda guy,...and I getting warm? Are there any Jewish messianic groups that correspond close to what you believe in any way,...or is your path more eclectic,....how would you describe your 'path' of following Jesus, if you could?
    Hi Daqq,......I think the name or title 'Amen' is significant :) I like to throw in the Aum of Vedic theology.....and write it 'Aumen' :) - there are some subtle Egyptian inflections in there too......'Amen Ra' ;)
    I was being funny about your avatar and I know you're not going to hell. I like your posts and admire your knowledge of scripture. Keep it up daqq -
    hi daqq, if u get a chance to see my post on heb. 1:8. The JW have a good defense of their translation, do you accept it as a valid alternative translation? Brother Kel also makes some good points in his presentation (in more than one video). I think its best to see the Jewish commentaries on psalm 45 too, and see that they recognize that the King's throne is likened to the throne of God, since he rules by God's power and authority,....not that he Is big "G" God! - and even if he is deemed 'elohim',...hes still a representative of God, not God himself. Am I getting warm? :)
    Gotcha. Not sure about your mention of Bnei Zadok, u mean the infancy narrative in matthew? or a non-canonical infancy gospel? As u know some of the geneology in the 2 gospels are kinda 'iffy',....if not embellished. The non-canonical gospels are kinda fun :) - I suspect your going somewhere with the priestly lineage of Zadok? ;)
    just a quickie daqq,.....still probing your 'Christology' ;) - do u believe Christ was the Firstborn, as in the first creature made, thru which all creation came forth,....in other words, a kind of Arian or semi-arian view? I'm sure we'll cover this more soon,....just a teaser up front :)
    oh no,..it was my ignorance about capitalization or lower case in the original manuscripts. - I don't recall when they started translating in our common English vernacular...u know...lower case, etc. As I mentioned some modern day translators capitalize the 'I AM' of John 8:58, to emphasize Jesus divinity,.....gotcha! :)
    Hi, I had to make a correction about my thinking of whether the earliest greek manuscripts were all in caps or lower case :) - you learn something everyday. - I still have some pertinent questions for you concerning your 'Christology' ;)
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