Yeshua Says:

[OCTOBER23]

Whatever.
JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED

I have studied the bible diligently for 45 years
so your self-righteous indignation means nothing to me.

Either put up your proofs or admit that you are WRONG.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 11:19

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,

'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'

But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

- How can JESUS be a Talmidic Jewish Rabbi when the Pharisees Rejected him outwardly.

:think:

 

[daqq]

Whatever.
JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED

I have studied the bible diligently for 45 years
so your self-righteous indignation means nothing to me.

Either put up your proofs or admit that you are WRONG.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 11:19

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,

'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'

But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

- How can JESUS be a Talmidic Jewish Rabbi when the Pharisees Rejected him outwardly.

:think:

Funny how you came to me in this thread with judgment and now you cry, "JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED", when you are shown to have brought down your own false judgment upon your own head. :crackup:

Yeshua Says: Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which has ten talents: for unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance, but from him that has not shall be taken away even that which he has, (Mattityahu 25:28-29).

:sheep:

 

[Wick Stick]

Did you mistake Talmidim (students) for Talmud (teaching)?

All Jewish sects made disciples. Not just Pharisees.

Jarrod

 

[daqq]

Did you mistake Talmidim (students) for Talmud (teaching)?

All Jewish sects made disciples. Not just Pharisees.

Jarrod

Seems he did, (which I hinted at but he did not answer) which is also why I said that apparently now he seeks only to save his own skin, (reputation) and unfortunately he shows that his reputation is even more important than what is written in the scripture.

 

[daqq]

Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the world: the one following me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the Light of the Life, (John 8:12). Yeshua Says, Yet a little while is the Light with you: walk while you have the Light, lest the darkness come upon you; for the one walking in the darkness knows not where he goes. While you have the Light, faithfully-trust into the Light so that you may become Sons of Light: these things Yeshua spoke, and departed, and concealed himself from them, (John 12:35-36). Yeshua Says, I am Light having come into the world, so that all who are faithfully-trusting into me shall not abide in the darkness, (John 12:46).

Watching I was in the visions of the night, and behold, one like unto a son of man, and he said to his talmidim, Let us pass|over to the other side of Kinnerot, (that is the little lake in the sides of the north). And they brought him even as if he was with them in the vessel; and there were also other small vessels with him in them. And there arose a mighty storm of wind upon the sea, with thunders, and lightnings, and the waves were crashing into the vessel; so much so that the vessel was filling up from the billows of the raging sea. And one stood by me, Andreo, (that is, Andreo the Man), and he said to me, What do you see? And I answered, I see talmidim of the Master in a vessel on the stormy sea, and the vessel is in great peril, about to be overcome with the billows of the stormy sea; but the Meshiah is nowhere to be seen. And Andreo the Manfaced said to me, The Meshiah is at rest in the stern of the vessel, upon the headrest pillow of the Stone: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and I saw that the talmidim were crying out, saying, Master, where are you? Do you not care that we perish? And, behold, at the two points of the mast, the magnificent blue flame of Uriel suddenly began to shine brilliantly in the night. And Andreo the Manfaced said to me again, What do you see? And I said, I see the mast for the sail now aglow in bright blue lamps, like brilliant auras in the night, which the sailors and mariners of the Greeks call Castor and Pollux: two lamps of the blue flame of Uriel on the heads of the Waω: a lamp and a lamp at each of the two extremities making the sign of the Waω. And Andreo the Manfaced said to me, The Light of the Kosmos is fully awakened, and has risen to the top of the mast in the sign of the Waω to censure the winds and the raging of the waters: even as Moshe with the rod of Elohim lifted up in the sign of the Waω when bnei Yisrael passed through the Sea of Reeds: and the sign of the Stake enlightens the way through the night. And then I heard the sound of a voice like many waters, saying, Shalom, be still. And the wind died, and the raging waves ceased, and there was great calm: and Lake Gen-Netsaret was placid and tranquil, as pure as liquid crystal, a sea of tranquility having been mingled with fire.

Yeshua Says, Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the Land. Blessed are they which hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see Elohim. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of Elohim. Blessed are they which are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in the heavens, for likewise they persecuted the prophets which were before you. You are the salt of the Land: but if the salt has lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. You are the light of the world: a city that is set on a mountain cannot be hidden, (Matthew 5:3-14).

And by and by Yeshua compelled his talmidim to embark up into a vessel, and to go before him to the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the vessel was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with stormy waves; for the wind was contrary. And I watched in the visions of the night, and behold, in the fourth watch of the night, Yeshua was coming toward the vessel, walking upon the sea. And when the talmidim saw him traversing upon the face of the sea, they were greatly troubled, saying, It is a phantasma! and they cried out for fear. And I said to one who stood by, that is, Philippos, (he is fond of hippos-horses), Adoni, what is a phantasma? And he said to me, Know you not what this is? And I said, no Adoni, and he said, A phantasma is an orb of light which the sailors and the mariners call Ghost Lights, and they can destroy both the vessel and the carcass of a man, but this is not quite that: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and behold, a magnificent orb of brilliant white Light, in the form of a Dove, brooding upon the face of the waters: and the brilliant orb of Light was approaching the vessel. And all the talmidim saw, and knew not that it was the Master, and they were terrified, crying out, It is a phantasma! But straightway Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am! take heart, fear not. And Peter answered him, saying, Master, if it is you, summon me to come out unto you upon the water. And he said, Come forth! Watching I was, and Philippos the horse-lover says to me, What do you see? And I said, I see Peter like a brilliant white orb of light disembarking his vessel to go out upon the water to the Master. And Philippos the face of an eagle says to me, Watch! And I beheld, and I saw when Peter disembarked the vessel, and he walked upon the water to go unto Yeshua. But when Kephas looked to the howling wind he became fearful; and beginning to sink, Peter cried out, saying, Adoni, save me! And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his power and snatched him up, and said to him, O you of little faith, why did you stand duplicate? (that is to say, wavering, like Thomas Didymos, a doubting twofold twin). And when they were come into the vessel, the wind ceased, and the sea became placid and clear, as clear as liquid crystal, like a sea of transparent glass having been mingled with fire.

 

[daqq]

Then I understood this:

Acts 28:11 KJV
11 And after three months we departed in a ship of Alexandria, which had wintered in the isle, whose sign was Castor and Pollux.

:Nineveh:

 

[freelight]

Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the world: the one following me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the Light of the Life, (John 8:12). Yeshua Says, Yet a little while is the Light with you: walk while you have the Light, lest the darkness come upon you; for the one walking in the darkness knows not where he goes. While you have the Light, faithfully-trust into the Light so that you may become Sons of Light: these things Yeshua spoke, and departed, and concealed himself from them, (John 12:35-36). Yeshua Says, I am Light having come into the world, so that all who are faithfully-trusting into me shall not abide in the darkness, (John 12:46).

Watching I was in the visions of the night, and behold, one like unto a son of man, and he said to his talmidim, Let us pass|over to the other side of the sea. And they brought him even as if he was with them in the vessel, (and there were also other small vessels with him in them). And there arose a mighty storm of wind upon the sea, with thunders, and lightnings, and the waves were crashing into the vessel; so much so that the vessel was filling up from the billows of the raging sea. And one stood by me, Andreas, (that is, Andreas the Man), and he said to me, What do you see? And I answered, I see talmidim of the Master in a vessel on the stormy sea, and the vessel is in great peril, about to be overcome with the billows of the sea; but the Master is nowhere to be seen. And Andreas the Manfaced said to me, The Master is at rest in the stern of the vessel, upon the headrest: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and I saw that the talmidim were crying out, saying, O Master, where are you? Do you not care that we perish? And, behold, at the three points of the mast: the magnificent blue flame of Uriel suddenly began to shine brilliantly in the night. And Andreas the Manfaced said to me again, What do you see? And I said, I see the mast of the vessel now aglow in bright blue aura lights, which the sailors and mariners of the Greeks call Castor and Pollux, and yet I see not two lamps of fire but three: one lamp at the head of the mast, and another lamp and a lamp at each of the two extremities of the crossbeam of the sail, making the sign of Tav, even as Moshe did with the rod of Elohim lifted up when bney Yisrael crossed through the Sea of Reeds; and the sign of the Tav enlightens the way through the night. And Andreas the Manfaced said to me, The Light of the world has fully awakened and is risen to the top of the mast, in the sign of the Tav, to rebuke the wind and the sea with its billowing waves. And then I heard the sound of a voice like many waters, saying, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was great calm, and the sea became placid and tranquil, as clear as liquid crystal having been mingled with fire.

Yeshua Says, Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the Land. Blessed are they which hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see Elohim. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of Elohim. Blessed are they which are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in the heavens, for likewise they persecuted the prophets which were before you. You are the salt of the Land: but if the salt has lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. You are the light of the world: a city that is set on a mountain cannot be hidden, (Matthew 5:3-14).

And by and by Yeshua compelled his talmidim to embark up into a vessel, and to go before him to the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the vessel was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with stormy waves; for the wind was contrary. And I watched in the visions of the night, and behold, in the fourth watch of the night, Yeshua was coming toward the vessel, walking upon the sea. And when the talmidim saw him traversing upon the face of the sea, they were greatly troubled, saying, It is a phantasma! and they cried out for fear. And I said to one who stood by, that is, Philippos, (he is fond of hippos-horses), Adoni, what is a phantasma? And he said to me, Know you not what this is? And I said, no Adoni, and he said, A phantasma is an orb of light which the sailors and the mariners call Ghost Lights, and they can destroy both the vessel and the carcass of a man, but this is not quite that: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and behold, a magnificent orb of brilliant white Light, in the form of a Dove, brooding upon the face of the waters: and the brilliant orb of Light was approaching the vessel. And all the talmidim saw, and knew not that it was the Master, and they were terrified, crying out, It is a phantasma! But straightway Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am! take heart, fear not. And Peter answered him, saying, Master, if it is you, summon me to come out unto you upon the water. And he said, Come forth! Watching I was, and Philippos the horse-lover says to me, What do you see? And I said, I see Peter like a brilliant white orb of light disembarking his vessel to go out upon the water to the Master. And Philippos the face of an eagle says to me, Watch! And I beheld, and I saw when Peter disembarked the vessel, and he walked upon the water to go unto Yeshua. But when Kephas looked to the howling wind he became fearful; and beginning to sink, Peter cried out, saying, Adoni, save me! And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his power and snatched him up, and said to him, O you of little faith, why did you stand duplicate? (that is to say, wavering, like Thomas Didymos, a doubting twofold twin). And when they were come into the vessel, the wind ceased, and the Sea of Gennesaret became placid and clear, as clear as liquid crystal, like a sea of transparent glass having been mingled with fire.

Hi Daqq,

Can you quote the reference for the non-canonical texts in your arrangement above. Thanks

 

[daqq]

Hi Daqq,

Can you quote the reference for the non-canonical texts in your arrangement above. Thanks

That's just little ole me in my journeys through the Word.

However the quote from Yeshua is, imo, exactly what is in the text:

Matthew 14:26-27 W/H
26 οι δε μαθηται ιδοντες αυτον επι της θαλασσης περιπατουντα εταραχθησαν λεγοντες οτι φαντασμα [phantasma] εστιν και απο του φοβου εκραξαν
27 ευθυς δε ελαλησεν ο ιησους αυτοις λεγων θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε

In Matthew 9:2, where Yeshua again uses tharseo, but with "child", (teknon), we see that many translations find no reason to necessarily render it in the order in which the statement is made, (unlike what they do with the passage above where they also render εγω ειμι as, "It is I", instead of, "I am").

Matthew 9:2 KJV
2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

See how "Son", (which should be child, because it is teknon), comes first in the above KJV rendering? It is not that way in the Greek text but rather the order is the same as Matthew 14:27 where tharseo, ("be of good cheer" or "take heart"), is also used:

Matthew 9:2 W/H
2 και ιδου προσεφερον αυτω παραλυτικον επι κλινης βεβλημενον και ιδων ο ιησους την πιστιν αυτων ειπεν τω παραλυτικω θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι

Word order is not so critical in Greek as it is in English but is rather pretty often at the discretion of the translator(s). However what they do with ego eimi really seems to be uncalled for in Matthew 14:27.

θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι
"Child, (τεκνον), take heart, (θαρσει), your sins are sent away"

θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε
"I am! (εγω ειμι), take heart, (θαρσειτε), fear not"

Do you see what I mean? If you read it this way then in Matthew 14:26, where the disciples are in fear, crying out, (no doubt saying), "A phantasma!" or "It is a phantasma!", Yeshua immediately answers them with an emphatic statement, saying, "I am!, (but) take heart, fear not." It really is all about your mindset. These things are placed in the setting of a stormy night on the sea for just such reasons; for every sailor and mariner in those times would have immediately known that these things clearly do not speak of a literal physical human being literally walking across the surface of the sea. Ball lightning is a very true and real phenomenon which was well known in ancient times, and especially among sailors and mariners, (and it is indeed fearful because it can explode, sink a small ship, and can kill a human being who comes into contact with it). I recently read a story about the first ever film footage of ball lightning actually being formed, and was astounded to find in the article that ball lightning can even be formed when lightning strikes soil. The article stated that the ball lightning was formed out of VAPORIZED SOIL. The first thing that came to my mind was that the first man Adam was formed of DUST, (vaporized soil?), from the adamah-soil. "The research also provides the first evidence that the elusive glowing orbs form due to vapourised dirt", (Daily Mail). I'm not saying all ball lightning forms the same way but in this case it was astonishing to me that vaporized soil and the intense energy of lightning is capable of creating ball lightning. IMO it seems that the authors of the writings used such imagery because such things are part of the natural creation of Elohim and all things of His creation are given to us for examples of spiritual and supernal truths. This is precisely how they thought, as shown so often throughout the writings, and Paul himself likewise gives a short discourse on such thinking in Romans 1:20-25, (the invisible things of Elohim are seen through His visible creation). And when you think about it, contemplate it for a while, no doubt, Yeshua is the Light having come into the world; the Light of every man, the Light of Life, ehem, the Light. But as I said elsewhere; if even this little bit above herein be true, then the typical modern churchgoing mind truly has no idea what is being said in the apostolic writings.

 

[daqq]

And I hope no one takes it wrong; the above was not suggesting that Messiah is "ball lightning" but rather that this is the imagery from the natural creation which is used in the above occasion, (Matthew 14:26-27). However he does appear to confirm that he is indeed something like a "phantasma", and such is not the same as a spirit; for a spirit cannot be seen, and a spirit has neither flesh nor bone nor material matter, (a reference to Luke 24:39 where they render εγω ειμι as "It is I" once again, lol). This therefore would also mean that the disciples are certainly not perceiving Messiah as being on-par or equal to the Almighty, (who is non-corporeal Spirit and cannot be contained).

 

[marhig]

That's just little ole me in my journeys through the Word.

However the quote from Yeshua is, imo, exactly what is in the text:

Matthew 14:26-27 W/H
26 οι δε μαθηται ιδοντες αυτον επι της θαλασσης περιπατουντα εταραχθησαν λεγοντες οτι φαντασμα [phantasma] εστιν και απο του φοβου εκραξαν
27 ευθυς δε ελαλησεν ο ιησους αυτοις λεγων θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε

In Matthew 9:2, where Yeshua again uses tharseo, but with "child", (teknon), we see that many translations find no reason to necessarily render it in the order in which the statement is made, (unlike what they do with the passage above where they also render εγω ειμι as, "It is I", instead of, "I am").

Matthew 9:2 KJV
2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

See how "Son", (which should be child, because it is teknon), comes first in the above KJV rendering? It is not that way in the Greek text but rather the order is the same as Matthew 27:14 where tharseo, ("be of good cheer" or "take heart"), is also used:

Matthew 9:2 W/H
2 και ιδου προσεφερον αυτω παραλυτικον επι κλινης βεβλημενον και ιδων ο ιησους την πιστιν αυτων ειπεν τω παραλυτικω θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι

Word order is not so critical in Greek as it is in English but is rather pretty often at the discretion of the translator(s). However what they do with ego eimi really seems to be uncalled for in Matthew 14:27.

θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι
"Child, (τεκνον), take heart, (θαρσει), your sins are sent away"

θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε
"I am! (εγω ειμι), take heart, (θαρσειτε), fear not"

Do you see what I mean? If you read it this way then in Matthew 14:26, where the disciples are in fear, crying out, (no doubt saying), "A phantasma!" or "It is a phantasma!", Yeshua immediately answers them with an emphatic statement, saying, "I am!, (but) take heart, fear not." It really is all about your mindset. These things are placed in the setting of a stormy night on the sea for just such reasons; for every sailor and mariner in those times would have immediately known that these things clearly do not speak of a literal physical human being literally walking across the surface of the sea. Ball lightning is a very true and real phenomenon which was well known in ancient times, and especially among sailors and mariners, (and it is indeed fearful because it can explode, sink a small ship, and can kill a human being who comes into contact with it). I recently read a story about the first ever film footage of ball lightning actually being formed, and was astounded to find in the article that ball lightning can even be formed when lightning strikes soil. The article stated that the ball lightning was formed out of VAPORIZED SOIL. The first thing that came to my mind was that the first man Adam was formed of DUST, (vaporized soil?), from the adamah-soil. "The research also provides the first evidence that the elusive glowing orbs form due to vapourised dirt", (Daily Mail). I'm not saying all ball lightning forms the same way but in this case it was astonishing to me that vaporized soil and the intense energy of lightning is capable of creating ball lightning. IMO it seems that the authors of the writings used such imagery because such things are part of the natural creation of Elohim and all things of His creation are given to us for examples of spiritual and supernal truths. This is precisely how they thought, as shown so often throughout the writings, and Paul himself likewise gives a short discourse on such thinking in Romans 1:20-25, (the invisible things of Elohim are seen through His visible creation). And when you think about it, contemplate it for a while, no doubt, Yeshua is the Light having come into the world; the Light of every man, the Light of Life, ehem, the Light. But as I said elsewhere; if even this little bit above herein be true, then the typical modern churchgoing mind truly has no idea what is being said in the apostolic writings.

Matthew 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I see this verse and others very differently to the way many others see it, what do you see in it? If you don't mind saying? Do you see this naturally it spiritually?

Without going into depth here, i see Jesus is the light, and the light shall come and shine from the east to the west the east is where the sun rises. when we see the light, the son rises in our hearts. And the light comes suddenly like lightening. But I believe Jesus is talking in a metaphor, as I believe he did regarding coming in a cloud. I would go on but here isn't the right place.

 

[daqq]

Matthew 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I see this verse and others very differently to the way many others see it, what do you see in it? If you don't mind saying? Do you see this naturally it spiritually?

Without going into depth here, i see Jesus is the light, and the light shall come and shine from the east to the west the east is where the sun rises. when we see the light, the son rises in our hearts. And the light comes suddenly like lightening. But I believe Jesus is talking in a metaphor, as I believe he did regarding coming in a cloud. I would go on but here isn't the right place.

Hi Marhig,

I don't see why we cannot bring that conversation here because it does pertain to things Yeshua Says, just as you quoted, and I do remember having some of this conversation already in another thread which I will post again below. Words have nuances that most often may only be understood from the context in which they are found. In the passage you quote, according to the KJV, Yeshua says that his coming shall be as the lightning shines from the east even unto the west. But lightning never travels that far across the sky, that is, from the east all the way to the west; no, but rather, lightning generally stays within the cloud cover when it travels horizontally across the sky. Likewise Satan is said to fall like lightning, which is from the heavens to the earth, (in appearance), which is sudden, immediate, and most importantly crooked and bent. Yeshua does not speak of lightning in the passage which you quoted and its companion passages. Both the rays of the morning rising sun and the lightning are beams of light: one is straight but the other is crooked and bent. The brilliant ray of light from the rising sun does indeed traverse across the sky from the east, (rising sun), to as far as the west. The sun however rises steadily and progressively as the day wears on, through the hours of the daylight, until the sun reaches its apex or zenith in the sky and begins its downward trek into the shades of the west. This is what I believe the Master is saying in the passage you quoted; for the "Daystar" is the sun, and that is what is used in symbolism for the "Daystar rising up in your hearts". It is not immediate but constant and increasingly more powerful through time, (like the sun rising up to the top of the day at noon). It is a slower but steady coming forth of the Light of Messiah, which again, is using the symbolism of the creation to expound supernal things, (in this case the celestial creation). Here below is the conversation from another thread, (only the first reply was to you and the rest to others therein).

And it starts with the first light, daybreak, and thats the revelation that Jesus is the Christ. Then as the light dawns and the day progresses and as the son rises within our hearts and as we start to receive progressive revelation we start to see clearer, we start to rise up as walk in the noonday with the brightest light of God Christ Jesus, and we see the picture clearly and we're not looking through a glass darkly anymore. And we are brought from darkness into the light through Christ by the holy spirit of God.

Amen, and that is why this, Luke 17:22-24, actually says this:

Luke 17:22-24
22 Moreover he said unto the disciples, The days will come when you shall desire to see [ιδειν] one of the days of the Son of man, and you shall not see it [οψεσθε].
23 And they shall say to you, "Look, here!" or "See, over there!", go not after them, nor follow them:
24 for just as the ray of light shines out of the one part under the heavens unto the other part under the heavens, radiating brightly; so also shall the Son of man be in his day.

It is not a reference to "lightning" but to he whose name is Anatole Tsemach-Branch:

Zechariah 6:12 KJV
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; [Tsemach] and he shall grow up [tsamach] out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Zechariah 6:12 LXX-Septuagint
12 και ερεις προς αυτον ταδε λεγει κυριος παντοκρατωρ ιδου ανηρ ανατολη [Anatole : Luke 1:78 : Day Spring : Rising Light (Day Star Rising : φωσφορος ανατειλη : 2 Peter 1:19)] ονομα αυτω και υποκατωθεν αυτου ανατελει και οικοδομησει τον οικον κυριου

Yes, it is quite comical, (lol), how people imagine that lighting comes forth out of the east, and travels as far as unto the west, despite the very nature of the facts that occur right around them in the natural creation all of the time and are plain for all to see, ehem, for those with eyes to see.

Matthew 24:27 KJV
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, [anatole rising light] and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 10:18 KJV
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

It would not be surprising to see the strictly physical literalist futurists such as yourself even go so far as to conjure up misunderstood science articles to prove that lightning travels across the sky from the east to the west more often that it travels up and down between the earth and heavens. Such is the buffoonery of enforcing dogma and paradigm onto the text and the old mantra that "ye olde king Jimmy and his court absolutely must have been inspired because God would not have allowed there not to be a perfect text in ENGLISH", (so that you of course need not actually study because, let's face it, you have your own life to live and bills to pay, [lol]).

A crooked and perverse generation, whose father is the devil, and the lusts of their father they do; for he was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him: when he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own; for he is a liar and the father of it.

http://www.livescience.com/38313-how-to-survive-a-lightning-strike.html

In this manner shall the Son of Man be in his day:

Here is another form of ball lightning caught on film where it is generated from within the clouds of a strong thunder storm. It is a very short clip, (one minute), but notice how the typical lightning strikes are within the cloud cover, (except for the ball lighting discharge), the lightning travels horizontally in the sky just as any typical thunder storm: it stays within the cloud cover and does not travel "from as far as the east unto the west", (and the ball lighting being discharged, from a lightning strike out of the clouds down to the earth, is quite amazing, however, this kind of ball lighting does not always travel at such a high rate of speed and could just as easily descend onto the surface of water and travel across the water for some distance, [i.e. the sea of Galilee]).

http://nautil.us/blog/a-new-explana...trangest-occurrences-in-nature-ball-lightning

 

[daqq]

Hi Daqq,

Can you quote the reference for the non-canonical texts in your arrangement above. Thanks

Philippos, he is fond of horses, (for that is the meaning of his name), like those of Revelation 6:1-8. And he is from the north, that is Bethsaida, and further north is the city of Caesarea Philippi which is adjacent to the ancient city of Dan, (face of an eagle). Uriel is the captain over the stars, (and thus his light is white and blue, and he is of the four faces of Phanuel-Pnuel-Pniel, Gen 32:28-31). Phanuel is one of the four Angels of the Presence, (and Phanuel has four faces: Sariel-Yistrael, Raguel, Ramiel, and Uriel, [Asaryalalyur of Enoch 10:1-2 is a compound containing Saryal and Uryal, which are Sariel-YiSrael and Uriel]). Phanuel-Uriel is one like unto an eagle, (Uriel | Virtual Jewish Library).

Revelation 4:6-7
6 And before the throne is a sea of glass like to crystal, and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes before and behind:
7 And the first living creature is like a lion, and the second living creature is like a calf, and the third living creature has the countenance-face like a man, and the fourth living creature is like an eagle flying.

Revelation 6:1-7
1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one from the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come and see.
4 And another horse came forth, a red horse: and to him that sat thereon it was given to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5 And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, Come and see: and I watched, and behold, a black horse; and he that sat thereon had a balance-beam in his hand.
6 And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A measure of wheat for a denarius, and three measures of barley for a denarius; and hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, Come and see.

John 1:45-46
45 Philippos finds Nathanael, and says to him, We have found him, of whom Moshe in the Torah, and the Prophets did write, Yeshua son of Yoseph that is from Nazaret.
46 And Nathanael said to him, Can there be any good out of Nazaret? Philippos says to him, Come and see.

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel

 

[daqq]

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel

Yeshua Says, He that is mikroteros (the less(er)) among you all; the same shall be megas-great, (Luke 9:48). The talmidim say to Yeshua, We know that you shall go from us: who is it that shall be made great over us? Yeshua says to them, The place from where you did come, to there shall you go: to Yaakob the Tzaddik, for because of him this heavens and earth came into being, (Thomas #12). Watching I was, and behold, a certain one clothed in the fine linen robe of the Kohen to the foot, having the inkhorn of a writer by his side. :Nineveh:

 

[Notaclue]

Quote Originally Posted by daqq
View Post

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel


Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim)



Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts(lives), and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Do you think Phanuel is one of the four beasts(lives)?


Peace.

 

[Wick Stick]

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

That's clever, identifying them like that, but isn't it more likely the 7 angelic "names" are rather titles that were passed down? What I mean is... multiple people might be linked to each... and they all might be correct. It isn't a 1-1 correspondence.

 

[daqq]

Quote Originally Posted by daqq
View Post

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel


Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim)



Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts(lives), and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Do you think Phanuel is one of the four beasts(lives)?


Peace.

The book of 1-Enoch says that Phanuel is one of the four Angels of the Presence, (1Enoch 40:1-9), and Phanuel is said to be the captain of the Ophanim, (eyes all around).

Etymology:
The word Ophan means "wheel" in Hebrew. It is a variant of the "aphan", meaning "to revolve, turn" which comes from the Semitic root "phanah", meaning "to look in all directions," or "to look out."

The Semitic root "phanah" is possibly derived from the Aiden "pha'na" meaning: "never in darkness" (coming from pha: "darkness" & na: "without, incapable")which is used to describe all seeing entities such as the Watchers who "never sleep". Likewise, "phanah" was used to describe Semitic deities who were covered in eyes, or who had several faces... When one eye would close, another would open; when one face would sleep, the other was awake. Thus, they were "incapable" of being in the "dark."

The Semitic value of the word has translated even into the Greek language, where "phan" means "to appear, to see" and "aphan" means "to disappear, invisible." In Arabic, "aphan" means to "look here and there", "to seek out counsel" or to "search everywhere." The Akkadian "aphunah" means "to turn this way and that", as a person in distress, not knowing where to place himself, looks about nervously.
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Megadriel/index.php?showtopic=241&st=0&#entry10381349

Phanuel-Penuel being the fourth also has four faces which contain the remaining names given in Enoch 20:1-8. However the existing Greek fragments do not contain Sarakael, (which is what is found in the Ethiopic Ge'ez), but rather Sariel, (Liber Enoch Graece).

Revelation 4:6-8 ASV
6 and before the throne, as it were a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, four living creatures full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face as of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four living creatures, having each one of them six wings, are full of eyes round about and within: and they have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.

The phrases "full of eyes before and behind", (front and back), and "full of eyes round about and within", seem to imply Phanuel-Penuel if not only the Ophanim. Thus we see Seraphim, (six wings), Cherubim, (four faces), and Ophanim, (eyes front and back and all around), all in the same statement concerning the four living beings which are the four Angels of the Presence.

Peace.

 

[daqq]

That's clever, identifying them like that, but isn't it more likely the 7 angelic "names" are rather titles that were passed down? What I mean is... multiple people might be linked to each... and they all might be correct. It isn't a 1-1 correspondence.

Well, if you simply say Ezra the Kohen and Scribe have you not included the whole Torah?
(Which he rewrote in the new Ashuri script).

And how much else did Ezra write? (I think no one knows for sure).
And I also think he was probably a Naziyr, (which would explain much concerning Isaiah).

 

[daqq]

Quote Originally Posted by daqq
View Post

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel


Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim)



Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts(lives), and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Do you think Phanuel is one of the four beasts(lives)?


Peace.

The reason why I say Sariel-Phanuel (Yaakob-YiSra'el) is because sariy is actually found in that text:

Genesis 32:24-31 KJV
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

"Your name shall no more be called Yaakob, but YiS(a)ra'el: ["He is S(a)ra'el"] for as a prince [sariy] have you been with Elohim, and with men, and have prevailed."

28 וַיֹּ֗אמֶר vai·yo·mer [And he said] לֹ֤א lo [not] יַעֲקֹב֙ ya·'a·kov [Yaakob] יֵאָמֵ֥ר ye·'a·mer [shall be called] עוֹד֙ 'od [any longer] שִׁמְךָ֔ shim·cha [your name] כִּ֖י ki for אִם־ 'im- [but] יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל Yis·ra·'el [Yis-ra'el] כִּֽי־ ki- [because] שָׂרִ֧יתָ sa·riy·ta [as a prince have you been (·ta)] עִם־ 'im- [with] אֱלֹהִ֛ים E·lo·Him [Elohim] וְעִם־ ve·'im- [and with] אֲנָשִׁ֖ים 'a·na·shim [men] וַתּוּכָֽל׃ vat·tu·chal [and have prevailed].

The Malak is thus very likely Sariy'el-YiSra'el-Phanu'el
And he gives Yaakob his name . . .

 

[Notaclue]

The book of 1-Enoch says that Phanuel is one of the four Angels of the Presence, (1Enoch 40:1-9), and Phanuel is said to be the captain of the Ophanim, (eyes all around).



Phanuel-Penuel being the fourth also has four faces which contain the remaining names given in Enoch 20:1-8. However the existing Greek fragments do not contain Sarakael, (which is what is found in the Ethiopic Ge'ez), but rather Sariel, (Liber Enoch Graece).

Revelation 4:6-8 ASV
6 and before the throne, as it were a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, four living creatures full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face as of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four living creatures, having each one of them six wings, are full of eyes round about and within: and they have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.

The phrases "full of eyes before and behind", (front and back), and "full of eyes round about and within", seem to imply Phanuel-Penuel if not only the Ophanim. Thus we see Seraphim, (six wings), Cherubim, (four faces), and Ophanim, (eyes front and back and all around), all in the same statement concerning the four living beings which are the four Angels of the Presence.

Peace.

Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Beginning:

Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
HELPS Word-studies
746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").


Archangels............Beginning Angels.....


PS.104:24. O LORD, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy possessions.


1Cor.1:24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Rev.3:14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;



Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


Peace.

 

[daqq]

Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Beginning:

Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
HELPS Word-studies
746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").


Archangels............Beginning Angels.....


PS.104:24. O LORD, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy possessions.


1Cor.1:24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Rev.3:14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

:thumb: So then, the following statement has multiple layered meanings:

Exodus 4:22
22 And you shall say unto Pharaoh, Thus says YHWH, Yisrael is My son, My firstborn:

And everyone who is "in Messiah" is therefore "in Yisrael" and co-firstborn with Messiah:

Hebrews 12:22-23
22 But you are come unto mount Zion, and to the city of the Living Elohim, the heavenly Yerushalem, and to an innumerable company of Angels:
23 To the national assembly and congregation of the firstborn which are written-enrolled in the heavens, and to the Elohim Judge of all, and to the spirits of tzaddikim having been perfected:

Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


Peace.

Isaiah 11:1
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Yishai, and a Netzer-Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Isaiah 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Yaakob and to restore the Netziyrei of Yisrael: I will also give you for a light to the Nations, that you may be My Salvation [Yeshuah] unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 60:21-22
21 All your people shall be tzaddikim: they shall inherit the land for olam, a Netzer-Branch of My planting, (My garden), the work of My hands that I may be glorified.
22 The little one shall be for an eleph, and the small one for a strong nation: I YHWH will hasten it in his time.

Yeshua Says, He that is mikroteros (the less(er)) among you all; the same shall be megas-great, (Luke 9:48). The talmidim say to Yeshua, We know that you shall go from us: who is it that shall be made great over us? Yeshua says to them, The place from where you did come, to there shall you go: to Yaakob the Tzaddik, for because of him this heavens and earth came into being, (Thomas #12). Watching I was, and behold, a certain one clothed in the fine linen robe of the Kohen to the foot, having the inkhorn of a writer by his side. :Nineveh: