Yeshua Says:

daqq

Well-known member
Is there more than Archangel Mickael?

Hi Meshak, since you addressed Notaclue I will let that person answer, just wanted to say hello. :)

That's clever, identifying them like that, but isn't it more likely the 7 angelic "names" are rather titles that were passed down? What I mean is... multiple people might be linked to each... and they all might be correct. It isn't a 1-1 correspondence.

Well, if you simply say Ezra the Kohen and Scribe have you not included the whole Torah?
(Which he rewrote in the new Ashuri script).

And how much else did Ezra write? (I think no one knows for sure).
And I also think he was probably a Naziyr, (which would explain much concerning Isaiah). :)

Also I will add, (in agreement), that although I have not found a direct connection it appears that the Tobiad dynasty was essentially claimed to have been founded by none other than Raphael, (book of Tobit). And we find in Tobit also, just as in the Torah, that Raguel is a man: but who is his wife? Her name is Edna, (cf. Tobit 7:2, Edna, a variation on the word Eden, that is, Edenah), which is the same name as the wife of Enoch. Who then does it imply that Raguel represents? His wife is Edna, (Eden), and his daughter is Sarah. Would it not be a reference to Enoch himself? None of this can be mere coincidence because the young female star prize of the book is "Sarah" who finally gets married, ("covenant" reference to the wife of Abraham). Going back to the Torah we find that Yithro, ("His Excellence"), Raguel has seven daughters, one of which Moshe marries, and her name is Tsipporah, (a little birdie, and this is prophecy, for Moshe marries into the Melki-Tzedek Elohim Priesthood by way of Tsipporah the daughter(doctrine) of Yithro Raguel). Who else has daughters that prophesy? That would be Philippos "the evangelist" who is one of the seven and has four daughters that prophesy, (Acts 21:8-9). Philippos has four faces just as does Phanuel, (so then, yes, it appears to be handed down through supernal or spiritual lines and symbolism that goes all the way back to the very beginning).
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
It's always fun when we arrive at the same place using different methods. I got here by understanding that this:

2a.jpg


was modeled on this:

Spring-Constellations.jpg


...with a little help from this:

Revelation 5:6
 

daqq

Well-known member
It's always fun when we arrive at the same place using different methods. I got here by understanding that this:

2a.jpg


was modeled on this:

Spring-Constellations.jpg


...with a little help from this:

Revelation 5:6

Wow, seriously, that sounds like something you most definitely should be posting about, (but I can also understand why you would not have a thread such as that in a place like this). If you would like to share your understanding here please do, or if not, perhaps you might send me a PM with a link, that is, if you have the info somewhere online? :)
 

Notaclue

New member
Is there more than Archangel Mickael?

Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


LORD, wisdom, understanding and counsel, might, knowledge and fear of the Lord. All have a Spirit.

Michael is one of Seven. I'm sorry but I don't know for sure which one is Michael? I am too wrapped up in wisdom.

God has made them all One through the death of his Son.

Col.1:15. who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
17and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Rev.1:5. and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.


Maybe daqq knows which one is Michael?


Peace.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Is there more than Archangel Mickael?

Just one traditionally speaking, but the name 'Michael' which means 'he who is like elohim' may apply to other angels (messengers who are like God/gods) :) - also, the correlation or affiliation with Michael and Jesus may be more curiously appropriate than some fundamentalists suspect. The name-meaning does apply to both, as far as that goes, and 'Michael' being a heavenly name for 'Christ' also may bear some consideration. How these two figures got confused or later divided in doctrinal developments down thru the ages, is also interesting.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


LORD, wisdom, understanding and counsel, might, knowledge and fear of the Lord. All have a Spirit.

Michael is one of Seven. I'm sorry but I don't know for sure which one is Michael? I am too wrapped up in wisdom.

God has made them all One through the death of his Son.

Col.1:15. who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
17and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Rev.1:5. and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.


Maybe daqq knows which one is Michael?


Peace.

I don't get that how these explain about archangels.

Daqq, you can help me out too.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Hmmm, the question was, "Is there more than Archangel Mickael?", and I can only assume that means more than one archangel, (which is a good question). The answer to that would be that Miykael is the only one actually called an archangel or chief-messenger in what is now considered the "canonical" scripture. Some versions of Enoch have the seven called archangels but I think that likely comes from a misunderstanding somewhere along the way somewhere back in time, (three or four different language translations including Latin). Arche though does mean "head" in that sense and is also what Miykael is called in Daniel, ("ha-Sar ha-Gadol" or the Great Prince-Head, Daniel 12:1). However angelos, like malak in Hebrew, can just as easily, (and more likely), mean a messenger. Miykael would therefore be the "head-messenger" or captain of the the host of the messengers. That is also what we read of the one with his sword drawn in Joshua 5:13-15, where he is called "Sar tsaba YHWH", which is to say, Prince, Captain, or Head of the host, (or army), of YHWH, (and the same title is used in Daniel 8:11). But as for who I have already offered my understanding of that: a certain one clothed in the white linen kittel of the Priest having a writer's inkhorn by his side. :shut: :)
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
thank you daqq,

I understood that arch means head, meaning it should be only one head messenger.

that's why I asked this question.
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
Wow, seriously, that sounds like something you most definitely should be posting about, (but I can also understand why you would not have a thread such as that in a place like this). If you would like to share your understanding here please do, or if not, perhaps you might send me a PM with a link, that is, if you have the info somewhere online? :)
That's a deep-ish rabbit hole... God took Moses up on a mountain to show him the pattern to make the tabernacle and all the associated stuff. That's because the congregation was modeled on the night sky.

Here's some astronomical/astrological facts, and you connect the dots (pun intended).

There are many constellations but only 12 are part of the zodiac.

If you could see the stars during the day, rotating the same direction as the sun, it would appear that the sun was riding on top of certain constellations. 12 constellations to be exact, and now you know what makes a zodiac sign part of the zodiac.

Draw a line through all the signs of the zodiac, and you have a circle/ellipse.

Put a pin in the middle of that circle. You now have the center or apex of your map of the night sky. That pin would be in the constellation Cepheus.

The constellation Cepheus depicts a king seated on a throne.

Just in front of that throne are the constellations Draco and Ursa Minor. Draco is a dragon or "that old serpent" if you like. Ursa Minor means 'little bear,' but since Moses didn't have any bears in his neighborhood, the Israelites saw it as a little sheep instead.

Revelation 5:6

Ursa minor is composed of 7 major stars. You probably know this constellation better as the Little Dipper. 4 stars form the ladle, and three more form the handle.

Stars and angels are the same thing in Revelation. And Ezekiel. And Enoch. Ok, in most Jewish books. Eyes are part of the same metaphor too.

So, a king on His throne, with a lamb in front of him, surrounded by 12 symbols... yeah this is the assembly gathered around the tabernacle.

That should be enough. But if not, look up the standards/banners that the each tribe gathered under. If you guessed that they were mostly identical to the zodiac signs, you would be right.
 

daqq

Well-known member
It's always fun when we arrive at the same place using different methods. I got here by understanding that this:

2a.jpg


was modeled on this:

Spring-Constellations.jpg


...with a little help from this:

Revelation 5:6

That's a deep-ish rabbit hole... God took Moses up on a mountain to show him the pattern to make the tabernacle and all the associated stuff. That's because the congregation was modeled on the night sky.

Here's some astronomical/astrological facts, and you connect the dots (pun intended).

There are many constellations but only 12 are part of the zodiac.

If you could see the stars during the day, rotating the same direction as the sun, it would appear that the sun was riding on top of certain constellations. 12 constellations to be exact, and now you know what makes a zodiac sign part of the zodiac.

Draw a line through all the signs of the zodiac, and you have a circle/ellipse.

Put a pin in the middle of that circle. You now have the center or apex of your map of the night sky. That pin would be in the constellation Cepheus.

The constellation Cepheus depicts a king seated on a throne.

Just in front of that throne are the constellations Draco and Ursa Minor. Draco is a dragon or "that old serpent" if you like. Ursa Minor means 'little bear,' but since Moses didn't have any bears in his neighborhood, the Israelites saw it as a little sheep instead.

Revelation 5:6

Ursa minor is composed of 7 major stars. You probably know this constellation better as the Little Dipper. 4 stars form the ladle, and three more form the handle.

Stars and angels are the same thing in Revelation. And Ezekiel. And Enoch. Ok, in most Jewish books. Eyes are part of the same metaphor too.

So, a king on His throne, with a lamb in front of him, surrounded by 12 symbols... yeah this is the assembly gathered around the tabernacle.

That should be enough. But if not, look up the standards/banners that the each tribe gathered under. If you guessed that they were mostly identical to the zodiac signs, you would be right.


Very ancient things . . .


fig.%2010%20-%20vulture%20sone%20Pillar%2043%20Cygnus%20marked.jpg

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/magicians.htm

"Journey of the Soul"
"It is more likely that Pillar 43 depicts the death journey of the soul of the deceased, or indeed that of the shaman (see below). This would be the removal of a soul from its physical environment, represented by the headless figure with an erection at the base of the stone - via Scorpius, signified by the scorpion, to its final destination among the stars. This destination, arguably the entrance to the "upper world" or sky-world of Eurasian shamanic tradition, appears to have been located in the vicinity of Cygnus, represented on the pillar by the main vulture, where the soul of the individual is shown as the ball above its left wing."

"Ercan goes on to link the vulture imagery on Göbekli Tepe's Pillar 43 with the act of disposing of the dead through the practice of excarnation, along with its allied association with the transmigration of the soul: "There were no graves 12,000 years ago. The dead bodies were left outdoors and raptors [that is, vultures] ate them. In this way, people believed the soul goes to the sky." This, he said, was called "burial in the sky," i.e. sky burial, and is depicted in the carved art at Göbekli Tepe, and also at the 9,000-year-old Neolithic city of Çatalhöyük in southern-central Anatolia. Here, shown in one particular painted fresco, are two vultures at the top of a wooden excarnation tower in the act of feasting on a human corpse, which as at Göbekli Tepe is shown as a headless figure (see fig. 13). Yet next to this scene are two more vultures on another excarnation tower that appear to be taking under their wings a ball-like head, this time with a mouth and two eyes. What we are almost certainly seeing here are the birds accepting into their care the soul of the deceased person in preparation for its journey to the next world."

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/magicians.htm

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/signs-of-worlds-first-pictograph-found-in-gobeklitepe

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/worlds-oldest-pictograph-discovered-gobekli-tepe

Galgal Rephaim is also thought to have been a location for "Sky Burials"
3637497818.jpg

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/morbid-theory-in-mystery-of-israel-s-answer-to-stonehenge

Although most here would likely find this appalling I think you might find it quite interesting that this ancient symbolism of the journey of the soul to the heavens upon death is actually found in the very earliest portions of Genesis. In fact it concerns the covenant with Abraham which appears to have been misread or pointed incorrectly in the Masorete Hebrew Text, (nashab-disperse for yashab-dwell-sit while nashab still does not even appear to be in the text despite the modern English renderings to the contrary), which is unfortunate because without this symbolism there are many prophetic statements and curious things said by both Moses and the Prophets which cannot be understood apart from this ancient symbolism. Even the idea that the descendants of Abraham would be as the stars of the heavens comes from this symbolism. In the LXX version of Genesis 15:11 we do not read that Abram chased away the fowls which came down upon the pieces but rather that he sat down among them revealing that the symbolism is of Abram himself, being slain, and giving himself willingly in sacrifice, (but of course it is only symbolism because, as Paul says, Elohim desires us to offer ourselves as living sacrifices unto Him). It is again the same old time symbolism of the flesh being put to death, or mortified as Paul likes to say, even given to the fowls of the heavens and the beasts of the field, (which is found in much prophetic typology, allegory, and symbolism).

Genesis 15:11 LXX Brenton English Translation
11 And birds came down upon the bodies, even upon the divided parts of them, and Abram sat down by them.


Yet even Brenton does not go far enough in his rendering, imo, because the word used for sat down by is rather sat down together with them, (the pieces, which represent his own self in sacrifice, while the fowls devoured the flesh from off the pieces).

Genesis 15:11 OG LXX
15:11 κατεβη δε ορνεα επι τα σωματα τα διχοτομηματα αυτων και συνεκαθισεν αυτοις αβραμ

http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/01_015.htm

G4776 συγκαθίζω sugkathizo (sïng-ka-thiy'-zō) v.
to give (or take) a seat in company with.
[from G4862 and G2523]
KJV: (make) sit (down) together

Other key symbols are also in the Hebrew such as tannur "fire pot", (little "lake of fire"?).

Genesis 15:9-18
9 And He said to him, Take for Me the treble of an heifer, and the treble of a she-goat, and the treble of a ram, and a turtledove; even a young nestling.
10 And he took unto Him all these, and parted them in the midst, and laid each piece one against his fellow: but the tsippor divided he not.
11 Moreover the fowls descended upon their divided carcasses and Abram sat together with them.
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And He said to Abram, Know of a surety that your seed shall be a stranger in a land which is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years:
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be interred in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come here again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass that when the sun went down, and it was twilight, behold a smoking tannur-fire-pot, and burning lamps of fire, which passed amidst those pieces.
18 In this day cut YHWH with Abram a covenant, saying, Unto your seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Ezekiel 39:17-20 The Scriptures (TS2009)
17 “And you, son of man, thus said the Master יהוה, ‘Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field, “Assemble yourselves and come, gather from all around to My slaughtering which I am slaughtering for you, a great slaughtering on the mountains of Yisra’ĕl, and you shall eat flesh and drink blood.
18 “Eat the flesh of the mighty, drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams and lambs, of goats and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 “And you shall eat fat till you are filled, and drink blood till you are drunk, at My slaughtering which I am slaughtering for you.
20 “And you shall be satisfied at My table with horses and riders, with mighty men and with all the men of battle,” declares the Master יהוה.

Revelation 19:17-20 The Scriptures (TS2009)
17 And I saw one messenger standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great Elohim,
18 to eat the flesh of sovereigns, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast, and the sovereigns of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to fight Him who sat on the horse and His army.
20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he led astray those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image. The two were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning with sulphur.


Deut 28:26, 1Sam 17:46, Isa 18:5-7, Jer 7:32-34, Jer 15:1-3, Jer 16:1-4, Jer 19:3-7, Jer 34:19-20.

Ah, but who is willing to make such a self-sacrificing covenant with the Most High? Your eyes of the flesh seeing all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh will dissolve while you stand upon your feet; your tongue of the flesh speaking carnal things of the carnal flesh man will dissolve in your mouth, (Zechariah 14:12-16), and no doubt the like symbolism is found in many other prophetic passages which not only the Testimony of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts but even the writings of Paul likewise explain in the doctrine of "cutting off the flesh", the deeds of the flesh, and the old man carnal nature.

. . . So Moshe like a Cherub took up the bones of Yoseph out of Egypt, when bnei Yisrael went forth out of Egypt, (O Egypt, great of flesh!), for Yoseph had straightly sworn bnei Yisrael, saying, Elohim will surely visit you; and you shall carry up my bones out of here with you, (for when they had spiced-embalmed the body of Yoseph, they placed his carcass in an Ark in Egypt, (and the stone coffer was of the same cubic internal volume as the Ark-box of the Covenant with the Krubim on the atonement cover)). . . :)
 
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daqq

Well-known member
Tobit 6:1-7
1 And as they went on their journey, they came in the evening to the river Hidakkel, and they lodged there.
2 And when the παιδαριον, (that is, a youth in training), went down to wash himself; a fish leaped out of the river, and tried to devour him.
3 And the Angel said to him, Grab the fish! and the παιδαριον seized the fish and brought it to the land.
4 Then the Angel said, Open the fish and take the heart, and the liver, and the gall, and put them up safely.
5 So the παιδαριον did as the Angel commanded him; and when they had roasted the fish, they did eat, and salted the rest for provisions: and they went together on their way until the approach to Ekbatana.
6 Then the παιδαριον said to the Angel, Brother Azarias, for what purpose be the heart, and the liver, and the gall of the fish?
7 And he said unto him, Concerning the heart and the liver; if a devil or an evil spirit trouble any, we make a smoke thereof to ascend before the man or the woman: and the party shall no more be vexed.


Moreover a παιδαριον is a young man entering into the forces of Yisrael, that is, two years and under in the forces, a youth in training: a young lad in the way of the Way. It is written in our Law, Take the sum of all the community by their kindreds, by the houses of their fathers, with the number of their names: every male by their heads from twenty years age and upwards; every one that is able to enter into the forces. Therefore our sages have said: Every man who freely volunteers to join the Council of the Community, he shall be examined on his intelligence and his deeds by the man who is the overseer at the head of the Many: and if he is suited to the discipline, (he is a proselyte), he will bring him into the Covenant that he may be converted to the truth and turn away from all perversity. And he shall instruct him in all of the ordinances of the Community, and after, when he presents himself to the Many, they shall consider his case; and according to what fate decrees following the decision of the Many, he shall either approach or depart. And when he approaches the Council, he shall not touch the pure food of the Many until he has been examined concerning his spirit and deeds, and until he has completed one full year, (he is a babe), and let him not mingle his property with that of the Many. And when he has completed one full year in the midst of the Community, the Many shall consider his case concerning his intelligence and deeds with regard to the Law: and if fate decrees that he approach the Company of the Community, following the decision of the Kohanim and the majority of the members of their Covenant, his property and his wages shall be handed over to the overseer of the revenues of the Many: but it shall be inscribed to his credit and shall not be spent to the benefit of the Many; he shall not touch the drink of the Many until he has completed a second full year in the midst of the members of the Community, (he is a child-servant). And when he has completed the second full year they shall examine him; and according to the decision of the Many, and if fate decrees that he approach the Community, he shall be enrolled and inscribed in his rank in the midst of his brethren.

And it came to pass that Yeshua ascended up into the mountain, and there he was seated with his talmidim: and Pesach Sheni the Yhudim feast was near. Yeshua therefore lifted up his eyes, (as when father Abraham lifted up his eyes in the meaning of the Way), and seeing that a great multitude was come unto him, he says to Philippos, face of an eagle, From where shall we market bread so that these may eat? But this he said to examine him: for he himself knew what was about to be done. Philippos the horse-lover answers him, Two hundred denarion of bread is not sufficient for them that each one might take even a little. One of his talmidim, Andreas the manfaced, brother of Shimon Petros, says to him, There is a παιδαριον here which has five barley loaves and two opsaria-roasted-salted reserves: but what are these among so many?

Yeshua Says, "ποιησατε τους ανθρωπους αναπεσειν!", which is to say, Make the anthropon-manfaced fall! Moreover there was much grass in that place; thus the ανδρες-men reclined, (for the ανθρωπους-manfaced were fallen), the number as it were five thousand. And Yeshua took the loaves; and when he had offered up the blessing at the Door, he distributed to the talmidim, and the talmidim distributed to them that were reclining; and likewise of the opsaria roasted-salted fish reserves, as much as they would. And when they were filled, he said to his talmidim, Gather up the fragments that remain so that nothing be lost. They therefore gathered them together; and twelve small baskets were filled with the fragments of the five barley loaves which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.

The anthropon manfaced, having seen the sign which was done, therefore said, This is of a truth that Prophet that should come into the world. Yeshua therefore, perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force to make him a king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone. And when evening came, his talmidim went down unto the sea; and they entered into a vessel, and were going over the sea unto KapherNaum: and it was now dark, and Yeshua had not yet come to them. And the sea was rising up by reason of a great storm of wind that blew. When therefore they had rowed about twenty-five or thirty stadia, they behold Yeshua traversing over the sea and drawing near unto the vessel, and they were in a fearful panic: but he said to them, Fear not, I am ― ― ― ―!

They were therefore willing to receive him into the vessel; and by and by the vessel was at the land whither they were going. On the morrow the multitude that stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other vessel there, save one, and that Yeshua entered not with his talmidim into the vessel, but that his talmidim went away alone, (howbeit there came vessels from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they ate the bread that the Master had graced), and when the multitude therefore saw that Yeshua was not there, neither his talmidim, they themselves got into the little vessels and came to KapherNaum seeking Yeshua. And when they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, Rabbi, how did you get here? Yeshua answered them, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto aionion life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him the Elohim Father has sealed. They said therefore to him, What must we do that we may work the works of Elohim? Yeshua answered and said to them, This is the work of Elohim, that you faithfully-trust into that one He has sent. They said therefore to him, What then do you do for a sign? that we may see and believe you? What sign do you work? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, as it is written, He gave them bread out of the heavens to eat. Yeshua therefore said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, It was not Moshe that gave you the bread out of the heavens; but my Father gives you the true bread out of the heavens. For the bread of Elohim is that which comes down out of the heavens and gives life unto the world. They said therefore unto him, Adoni, evermore give us this bread! Yeshua said to them, I am the bread of life: the one coming unto me shall not hunger, and the one faithfully-trusting into me shall never thirst.

Raguel-Reuel-Immanuel, one of the holy Malakim, manna bread of life from the heavens.
Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Immanuel-Reuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51

Mark 6:45-53
45 And straightway he constrained his talmidim to enter into the vessel, and to go before him unto the other side toward Bethsaida, while he himself sent the multitude away.
46 And after he had taken leave of them he departed into the mountain to pray.
47 And when even was come, the vessel was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land.
48 And seeing them distressed in rowing, for the wind was contrary unto them, about the fourth watch of the night he comes unto them, traversing over the sea; and he would have passed them by:
49 But they, when they saw him traversing over the sea, supposed that it was a
phantasma, and they cried out:
50 For they all saw him and were terrified: but straightway he spoke with them, and said to them, Have courage, I am ― ― ― ―! Fear not.
51 And he ascended up to them into the vessel, and the wind ceased, and they were sorely amazed within themselves:
52 For they understood not concerning the bread-loaves, but their heart was hardened.
53 And when they had entirely crossed over, they went over the land unto Gan-Netsaret, and they stationed there.


Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Immanuel-Reuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50
 
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daqq

Well-known member
John 8:12-15
12 Again therefore Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the kosmos: the one following me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said to him, You bear witness of yourself; your witness is not true!
[for they remembered what he said in John 5:31 and tried to turn it against him]
14 Yeshua answered and said to them, Even if I bear witness of myself, my witness is true; for I know from where I came, and to where I go: but you know not from where I come, or to where I go.
15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.
16 But even if I do judge, my judgment is true; for not alone am I, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 Moreover, even in your own law, it is written that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am he that testifies concerning my own, and the Father that sent me testifies concerning me
[by the works which are done].
19 They said therefore to him, Where is your Father? Yeshua answered, You know neither me, nor my Father: if you had known me, you would have known my Father also.
20 These words he spoke in the treasury as he taught in the temple: and no one seized him, for his hour was not yet come.
21 He said therefore again to them, I go away, and you shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: to where I go, you are not able to come.
22 The Yhudim therefore said, Will he kill himself? because he says, "To where I go, you are not able come"?
23 And he said to them, You are from below; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore to you that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am
[― ― ― ― ―], you will die in your sins.
25 They said therefore to him, You are who?
[because they understood that he did not complete the "I am" statement] Yeshua said to them, That which I also spoke to you at the beginning! [John 8:12 - I am the light of the kosmos]

Uriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the kosmos and tartaros.
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5

Matthew 14:22-34
22 And straightway he constrained the talmidim to enter into the vessel, and to go on before him unto the other side, until he should send the multitudes away.
23 And after he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into the mountain apart to pray: and when even was come, he was there alone.
24 But the vessel was now in the midst of the sea, distressed by the waves; for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night he came to them traversing over the sea.
26 And when the talmidim saw him traversing over the sea, they were troubled, saying, "It is a
phantasma!" and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Yeshua spoke unto them, saying, Have courage, I am ― ― ― ― ―! Fear not.
28 And Petros answered him and said, Adoni, if it be you, summon me to come unto you over the waters.
29 And he said, Come! And Petros disembarked the vessel, and traversed over the waters, to come to Yeshua.
30 But when he saw the wind, he feared; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, Adoni, rescue me!
31 And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his hand,
[power] and snatched him up, and said to him, O you of small faith, why did you stand duplicate? [that is to say, between two ways, doubting]
32 And when they were ascended into the vessel the wind ceased.
33 And they that were in the vessel did obeisance unto him, saying, Of a truth you are a Son of Elohim!
34 And when they had entirely crossed over they went over the land unto Gan-Netsaret.


Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Immanuel-Reuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5, Matthew 14:27
 
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daqq

Well-known member
Yeshua Says, You are the light of the kosmos: a city set on a hill cannot be hidden, (Matthew 5:14).

John 9:1-41
1 And as he passed by,
[going forth from the temple, John 8:59] he saw a man blind from his birth.
2 And his talmidim asked him, saying, Rabbi, who sinned? this man, or his parents, that he should be born blind?
3 Yeshua answered, Neither did this man sin, nor his parents: but that the works of Elohim should be made manifest in him.
4 We must work the works of Him that sent me while it is day; the night comes, when no one is able to work:
5 Inasmuch as I am in the kosmos, I am the light of the kosmos.
6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the adamah, and made clay of the spittle, and anointed his eyes with the clay:
7 And said to him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent), he went away therefore, and washed, and returned seeing.
8 The neighbors therefore, and they that saw him previously, that he was a beggar, said, Is not this the one that sat and begged?
9 Some said, It is he, others said, No but he is similar to him, he himself said, I am [― ― ― ― ―].
10 They therefore said to him, How were your eyes opened?
11 He answered, The man that is λεγομενος-laying-forth-speaking Salvation
[Yeshua] made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said to me, Go to Siloam and wash: so I went away, and washed, and I received sight.
12 And they said to him, Where is he? He said, I know not.
13 They bring to the Pharisees him that previously was blind.
14 Moreover it was a Shabbat in the day when Yeshua made the clay and opened his eyes.
15 Again therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he received his sight; and he said to them, He applied clay to my eyes, and I washed, and I see.
16 Some therefore of the Pharisees said, This is not a man of Elohim because he does not observe Shabbat, but others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such signs? And there was a division among them.
17 They say therefore to the
[formerly] blind man again, What do you say of him? in that he opened your eyes? Moreover, he said, He is a prophet.
18 The Yhudim therefore did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind and had received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight:
19 And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who you say was born blind? how then does he now see?
20 His parents answered and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
21 But how he now sees, we know not, or who opened his eyes, we know not; ask him, he is of age: he shall speak for himself.
22 These things said his parents because they feared the Yhudim: for the Yhudim had jointly consented already that if any should confess him to be anointed they should be put out of the synagogue.
23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age: ask him!
24 So they called a second time the man that was
[formerly] blind, and said to him, Give glory to Elohim: we know that this man is a sinner!
25 He therefore answered, Whether he is a sinner, I know not: one thing I know, that whereas I was blind, I now see!
26 They said therefore to him, What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?
27 He answered them, I told you already and you did not hear; wherefore would you hear it again? Do you also wish to become his talmidim?
28 And they reviled him, and said, You are his talmid! But we are talmidim of Moshe!
29 We know that Elohim has spoken by Moshe: but as for this one, we know not from where he is.
30 The man answered and said to them, Why herein is a marvelous thing: you know not from where he is and yet he opened my eyes!
31 We know that Elohim does not hear sinners: but if any be a θεοσεβης worshiper-servant of Elohim Almighty, and do His will, this one He hears!
32 From the aionos it was never heard that any one opened the eyes of one born blind:
33 If this one were not from Elohim, he could do nothing.
34 They answered and said to him, You were altogether born in sins, and do you teach us? And they cast him out.
35 Yeshua heard that they had cast him out, and having found him, he said, You, faithfully trust into the Son of man!
36 He answered and said, And who is he, Adoni? that I may faithfully trust into him?
37 Yeshua said to him, You have also seen him: and the one speaking with you, he is that one.
38 And he said, I do believe, Adoni, and he bowed to him.
39 And Yeshua said, For judgment I came into this world, so that they that see not may see; and that they that see may become blind.
40 Those of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things, and said to him, Are we also blind?
41 Yeshua said to them, If you were blind you would not have sin: but now that you say, We see, your sin remains.
 

daqq

Well-known member
John 10:1-10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, that one is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep:
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice: and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.
4 When he has put forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable Yeshua spoke to them: but they understood not what things they were which he spoke to them.
7 Yeshua therefore said to them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 As many as all having come are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: if anyone through me enters in, he shall be delivered, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture.
10 The thief comes not but to steal, and to slaughter, and to destroy: I came that they may have life and may have it abundantly.


Let not your spirit be that of a hireling, thief, robber, or wolf, but a sheep:

Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9

John 10:11-15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his soul for the sheep.
12 He that is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholds the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them:
13 He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and I know mine own, and mine own know me:
15 Even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my soul for the sheep.


Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14

John 11:25-26
25 Yeshua said to her, I am the resurrection and the life: the one that is faithfully-trusting into me, though dying off, yet shall live:
26 And whosoever lives and is faithfully-trusting into me shall absolutely not die off into the aiona. Do you believe this?


Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25

John 14:6
6 Yeshua said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes unto the Father if not through me.

Genesis 3:23-24
23 Therefore YHWH Elohim sent him forth from Gan Eden to till the adamah-soil from which he was taken.
24 And He drove out the adam; and He caused to dwell at the forefront of Gan Eden the Kerubim, and a blazing sword which turned every way, to keep the Way of the tree of Life.

Daniel 10:21 (Gabriel)
21 But I announce to you that which is noted in the Writing of Truth, and there is none strengthening himself with me, concerning these, except Miykael, your head-prince.


Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6

John 15:1-5
1 I am the true vine: and my Father is the Husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away: and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit.
3 Already you are clean because of the Logos-Word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you, just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: in this manner neither can you, if you do not abide in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches: the one abiding in me, and I in him, the same bears much fruit: for apart from me you can do nothing.


Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5

Enoch 20:1-8
1 These are the names of the holy Malakim ha-Notzerim:
2 Uriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the kosmos and tartaros.
3 Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
4 Raguel, one of the holy Malakim, the one avenging the kosmos of the luminaries.
5 Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
6 Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
7 Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
8 Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.

John 18:4-9
4 Yeshua therefore, knowing all those things that were coming upon him, issued forth and said to them, Whom do you seek?
5 They answered him, Yeshua ha-Natsorai, he said to them, I am
[Yeshua ha-Natsorai ― ― ― ― ― ― ―]! Moreover Yhudas who delivered him up was also standing with them:
6 In the manner therefore that he said to them, I am
[Yeshua ha-Natsorai-Raguel-Uriel-Raphael-Miykael-Remiel-Gabriel-Sariel]! they went backward and fell to the earth.
7 He then asked them again, Whom do you seek? And they said, Yeshua ha-Natsorai.
8 Yeshua answered, I have told you that I am;
[Yeshua ha-Natsorai] if therefore you seek me, let these go their way:
9 So that the word which he spoke might be fulfilled, Of them which You gave to me, none have I lost.


Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Emmanuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5, Matthew 14:27
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5
 

Notaclue

New member
John 10:1-10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, that one is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep:
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice: and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.
4 When he has put forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable Yeshua spoke to them: but they understood not what things they were which he spoke to them.
7 Yeshua therefore said to them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 As many as all having come are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: if anyone through me enters in, he shall be delivered, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture.
10 The thief comes not but to steal, and to slaughter, and to destroy: I came that they may have life and may have it abundantly.


Let not your spirit be that of a hireling, thief, robber, or wolf, but a sheep:

Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9

John 10:11-15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his soul for the sheep.
12 He that is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholds the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them:
13 He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and I know mine own, and mine own know me:
15 Even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my soul for the sheep.


Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14

John 11:25-26
25 Yeshua said to her, I am the resurrection and the life: the one that is faithfully-trusting into me, though dying off, yet shall live:
26 And whosoever lives and is faithfully-trusting into me shall absolutely not die off into the aiona. Do you believe this?


Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25

John 14:6
6 Yeshua said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes unto the Father if not through me.

Genesis 3:23-24
23 Therefore YHWH Elohim sent him forth from Gan Eden to till the adamah-soil from which he was taken.
24 And He drove out the adam; and He caused to dwell at the forefront of Gan Eden the Kerubim, and a blazing sword which turned every way, to keep the Way of the tree of Life.

Daniel 10:21 (Gabriel)
21 But I announce to you that which is noted in the Writing of Truth, and there is none strengthening himself with me, concerning these, except Miykael, your head-prince.


Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6

John 15:1-5
1 I am the true vine: and my Father is the Husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away: and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit.
3 Already you are clean because of the Logos-Word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you, just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: in this manner neither can you, if you do not abide in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches: the one abiding in me, and I in him, the same bears much fruit: for apart from me you can do nothing.


Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5

Enoch 20:1-8
1 These are the names of the holy Malakim ha-Notzerim:
2 Uriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the kosmos and tartaros.
3 Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
4 Raguel, one of the holy Malakim, the one avenging the kosmos of the luminaries.
5 Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
6 Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
7 Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
8 Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.

John 18:4-9
4 Yeshua therefore, knowing all those things that were coming upon him, issued forth and said to them, Whom do you seek?
5 They answered him, Yeshua ha-Natsorai, he said to them, I am
[Yeshua ha-Natsorai ― ― ― ― ― ― ―]! Moreover Yhudas who delivered him up was also standing with them:
6 In the manner therefore that he said to them, I am
[Yeshua ha-Natsorai-Raguel-Uriel-Raphael-Miykael-Remiel-Gabriel-Sariel]! they went backward and fell to the earth.
7 He then asked them again, Whom do you seek? And they said, Yeshua ha-Natsorai.
8 Yeshua answered, I have told you that I am;
[Yeshua ha-Natsorai] if therefore you seek me, let these go their way:
9 So that the word which he spoke might be fulfilled, Of them which You gave to me, none have I lost.


Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Emmanuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5, Matthew 14:27
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5


Thank you daqq, I tried to get these out of the Zohar.


Peace to you.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Thank you daqq, I tried to get these out of the Zohar.


Peace to you.

Having just learned these things myself in this last year it was my pleasure to share them. But they are indeed found throughout the scripture, (and there is so much more), and I have no doubt that the apostolic writers considered 1Enoch also as scripture. Paul himself is another excellent example as shown by way of his conversion testimony and the Testimony of Yeshua in those accounts, (also, of note, wherein Paul says that Yeshua spoke to him in Hebrew). What Enoch says of Sariel is borne out in the Testimony of Paul, and how it relates to where Sariel is found in the Torah, but first it is necessary to perhaps try to explain the Greek passage concerning Sariel in Enoch because I have not seen a translation where it is rendered in the way I have shown it above herein. In the statement the word epi is used twice, (G1909 επι), which means upon, over, at, by, and sometimes may be used for "against" depending on context. In the statement concerning Sariel the first usage is simply "over", that is, Sariel is "over" those who sin, etc., etc., while the second usage should imo be understood as "against" because it is used with τῷ (πνεύματι - Spirit). So the statement does indeed say just what I rendered it to say:

Enoch 20:6 (Liber Enoch Graece)
6 Σαριήλ, ὁ εἷς τῶν ἁγίων ἀγγέλων ὁ ἐπὶ τῶν πνευμάτων οἵτινες ἐπὶ τῷ πνεύματι ἁμαρτάνουσιν.
6 Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.


This speaks of blasphemy of the Spirit, not to say that Yaakob was committing such an offense, (for it is a learning curve and Yaakob is the beginning of the teaching), but certainly this is what Shaul was doing even by his own admission. Not only was he blaspheming himself, and those of the congregation of Elohim which he was hunting down and forcing to blaspheme, (Acts 26:11), but he was blaspheming Elohim while thinking himself to be doing Elohim a service. Albeit Paul did these things in the ignorance of unbelief, but obtained mercy, and was forgiven, (1 Timothy 1:12-13). In his testimony before Agrippa he quotes the words of Messiah Yeshua spoken to him and therein we find a cryptic idiom which takes us back to Sariel and the encounter with Yaakob:

Acts 26:10-14
10 And this I also did in Yerushalem: and I both shut up many of the holy ones in prisons, having received authority from the chief kohanim, and when they were taken away I cast my vote against them.
11 And punishing them oftentimes in all the synagogues, I strove to make them blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto outlying cities.
12 Whereupon as I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief kohanim:
13 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them that journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying unto me in Hebrew, Shaul, Shaul, why do you persecute-pursue me? It is to the drying
[of the thigh] for you to kick against the cattle-prod.

σκληρος, (skleros), is "hard" or "tough", (like leather), but its root is σκελος, (skelos), "the leg", which in turn comes from skello, which means "to parch" or "dry up". This is exactly what is said of Yaakob when he met the Malak Sariel, that is, the shank of his thigh was dried up or shrunken when the Angel he wrestled with touched his thigh. That Malak is Sariel as previously explained:

The reason why I say Sariel-Phanuel (Yaakob-YiSra'el) is because sariy is actually found in that text:

Genesis 32:24-31 KJV
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.


"Your name shall no more be called Yaakob, but YiS(a)ra'el: ["He is S(a)ra'el"] for as a prince [sariy] have you been with Elohim, and with men, and have prevailed."

28 וַיֹּ֗אמֶר vai·yo·mer [And he said] לֹ֤א lo [not] יַעֲקֹב֙ ya·'a·kov [Yaakob] יֵאָמֵ֥ר ye·'a·mer [shall be called] עוֹד֙ 'od [any longer] שִׁמְךָ֔ shim·cha [your name] כִּ֖י ki for אִם־ 'im- [but] יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל Yis·ra·'el [Yis-ra'el] כִּֽי־ ki- [because] שָׂרִ֧יתָ sa·riy·ta [as a prince have you been (·ta)] עִם־ 'im- [with] אֱלֹהִ֛ים E·lo·Him [Elohim] וְעִם־ ve·'im- [and with] אֲנָשִׁ֖ים 'a·na·shim [men] וַתּוּכָֽל׃ vat·tu·chal [and have prevailed].

The Malak is thus very likely Sariy'el-YiSra'el-Phanu'el
And he gives Yaakob his name . . . :)

Genesis 32:31-32 KJV
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.


Messiah appears as Sariel to Shaul because he was blaspheming the Spirit, (Enoch 20:6).
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
Although most here would likely find this appalling I think you might find it quite interesting that this ancient symbolism of the journey of the soul to the heavens upon death is actually found in the very earliest portions of Genesis. In fact it concerns the covenant with Abraham which appears to have been misread or pointed incorrectly in the Masorete Hebrew Text, (nashab-disperse for yashab-dwell-sit while nashab still does not even appear to be in the text despite the modern English renderings to the contrary), which is unfortunate because without this symbolism there are many prophetic statements and curious things said by both Moses and the Prophets which cannot be understood apart from this ancient symbolism.
I do find it interesting. I knew I was missing something in Genesis 15. Thanks much; I can tell this is going to be one of those things that opens many doors.

Matthew 24:28 springs to mind, as I read this. Wonder if this figures into the communion meal symbology? Or the caduceus.

Also, the first rank of initiates of Mithraism (which has many parallels to early Christianity) was the Corax (raven). Have you looked at Mithraism at all?

Even the idea that the descendants of Abraham would be as the stars of the heavens comes from this symbolism.
It may be connected, but 'stars' are one of the extended metaphors and symbols used consistently throughout all Bible books. Also one of the more important topics in virtually all ancient religion. One more branch for a big tree, IMO.

Other key symbols are also in the Hebrew such as tannur "fire pot", (little "lake of fire"?).
Abraham had quite a history with furnaces, didn't he? In the Midrash, Nimrod threw him into one. And there's this story in Jubilees.

Also, speaking of alternate vowel pointings, UR (the proper name of Abram's birthplace) with a different vowel pointing means... furnace.

. . . So Moshe like a Cherub took up the bones of Yoseph out of Egypt, when bnei Yisrael went forth out of Egypt, (O Egypt, great of flesh!), for Yoseph had straightly sworn bnei Yisrael, saying, Elohim will surely visit you; and you shall carry up my bones out of here with you, (for when they had spiced-embalmed the body of Yoseph, they placed his carcass in an Ark in Egypt, (and the stone coffer was of the same cubic internal volume as the Ark-box of the Covenant with the Krubim on the atonement cover)). . . :)
This I was aware of - the Ark bears the dimensions of an ossuary. It almost seems relevant that the Hebrews only ever buried the bones of their dead after they were excoriated by natural processes.
 

daqq

Well-known member
I do find it interesting. I knew I was missing something in Genesis 15. Thanks much; I can tell this is going to be one of those things that opens many doors.

Matthew 24:28 springs to mind, as I read this. Wonder if this figures into the communion meal symbology? Or the caduceus.

Also, the first rank of initiates of Mithraism (which has many parallels to early Christianity) was the Corax (raven).

Yeshua therefore said, When you have lifted up the Son of man, then shall you know that I am ― ― ― ― ―, and that I do nothing of myself: but as the Father has taught me, these things I speak, (John 8:28).

John 12:28-41
28 Father, glorify thy name. There came therefore a voice out of the heavens, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29 The multitude therefore, that stood by and heard it, said that it had thundered: others said, An Angel has spoken to him.
30 Yeshua answered and said, This voice has not come for my sake, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the nasiy-prince of this world be cast out.
32 And if I be lifted up from the earth I will drag all men unto myself.
33 But this he said, signifying by what manner of death he should die.
34 The multitude therefore answered him, We have heard out of the law,
[Psalms are "the law of kings" (and priests)], that the Meshiah abides for ever: and how say you, The Son of man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of man?
35 Yeshua therefore said to them, Yet a little while is the Light with you: walk while you have the Light, that darkness overtake you not: for he that walks in the darkness knows not where he goes.
36 While you have the Light, faithfully-trust into the Light, that you may become Sons of Light. These things Yeshua spoke, and he departed, and concealed himself from them.
37 But though he had done so many signs before them yet they believed not on him:
38 That the word of Yeshayahu the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke, Adoni, who has believed our report? And to whom has the Arm of YHWH been revealed?
39 For this cause they could not believe because of how Yeshayahu said again:
40 He has blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, and should turn, and I should heal them,
[Isaiah 6:10 paraphrase].
41 These things Yeshayahu said because he saw his glory; and he spoke of him,
[Isaiah 6:1-3].

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the talmidim came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? (Matthew 24:3) So the Master expounded many things to them; and when he had finished all those sayings, he said to his talmidim, You know that after two days is the feast of the Passover, and the Son of man is delivered up to be crucified, (Matthew 26:1-2, John 3:14-15, Numbers 21:6-9, Isaiah 6:4, Psalm 22:1-31, Revelation 19:1-31).
 
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