I never said He lets the unrepentant go unpunished.
toldailytopic: How many good works does it takes to get into heaven?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Galatians 5:19-21
New International Version (NIV)
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
naatmi
New member
Can you sin and be repentant at the same time? What is the punishment for refusing to love God and neighbor? What punishment fits that crime?
I do good works because it usually seems like the right thing to do and it is usually to my advantage.
I don't keep track of the numbers and getting in to Heaven is not a concern for me. From what I understand, good works count for nothing in Heaven anyway.
I don't keep track of the numbers and getting in to Heaven is not a concern for me. From what I understand, good works count for nothing in Heaven anyway.
Who lives like that? It is those who have never accepted grace, that's who. And so it is not their deeds that keep them out, it is their rejection of grace.
We are all, apart from Christ. in a state of unrighteousness and all unrighteousness is sin, so those who repent are in sin at the same time they are repentant. And if you refuse God you get what you want, you never have any connection to Him again.
naatmi
New member
You could accept the grace of forgiveness and then go and live like that. Immunity is not grace.
What is a "state of unrighteousness"? Is it something we could have avoided? Or something someone else did to us?
Is there a difference between having sinned in the past and being presently in sin?
He answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind, and went ... Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to him, “The first.” (Matt 21:29-32)
They both sinned. One sinner repented.
naatmi
New member
That's ok, but if our primary motivation is our own advantage then we are no better than the devil.
The Bible says,
[God] will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil ... but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good ... for there is no respect of persons with God. (Romans 2:6-11)
You could, but why would you?
Did you mean to say that the other way around?
If not, all I can say is, "No duh."
If so, I disagree. Grace is immunity. We are under grace, not the law and where there is no law there is no transgression [sin].
It is a state of not being righteous? Don't ask such stupid questions. And as for your either/or question it is neither.
I'm not sure I understand what it is you are trying to ask here. Being in sin and sinning are not the same thing, but the latter only occurs because of the former.
So? Is there supposed to be a point here?
Paul shows how those who are in Christ have been set free from that which condemns them (The Law). Under the Law, all men are proven sinners.
“Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.” Rom 3:19-20
The Law reveals the deeds of the flesh Gal 5:19-21 Those deeds are NOT evidence of someone who is not saved, because ALL men are found guilty of the deeds of the flesh against the mirror of the Law.
Those who look at the Law and say that they are not guilty are both deceived and self-righteous.
The self-righteous use the Law to compare their deeds with the deeds of others, and they condemn those whose deeds fall short of their own.
Those who trust in the righteousness of God, that they receive as a gift by grace through faith, take their eyes off of the Law, off of themselves and off of others and fix their eyes on Jesus, for they know that apart from Him they are nothing.
It is a man's faith in Christ that is evidence of a believer. Those who look at the Law and the deeds of the flesh as evidence of faith are unbelievers.
naatmi
New member
There is no logical reason for sin. Sin is insane. We have the ability to choose insanity and selfishness instead of truth and love.
"them ... that hate me without a cause." (Ps 35:19)
"They that hate me without a cause" (Ps 69:4)
"What more could have been done?" (Isa 5:4)
"Why, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?" (Isa 5:4)
"why will ye die?" (Ezek 18:31)
"why will ye die" (Ezek 33:11)
"Why will ye die?" (Jer 27:13)
Grace is forgiveness not immunity.
Forgiveness is gracious, but it still required the atonement to be justified.
Immunity is not gracious. No atonement could justify immunity.
Obedience is a condition of acceptance (except for liberals).
If we can be forgiven and obey then there is no need for immunity.
When a ruler grants immunity it shows he doesn't care about the community.
Is it a state of the will? Is it a voluntary state? If it is not voluntary, then it is involuntary. If we could not have avoided it, then it is not our fault. What was the cause? Physics? Adam? The devil? John Calvin?
Or Ironman.
Whatever. May as well have quote Marvel Comics or Lord of the Rings. Could you next time?
naatmi
New member
Not according to Ghost. According to Ghost, I can be a practicing homosexual but as long as I believe the right thing about God, I can be a practicing homosexual and still go to heaven.
Are you admitting to everyone on this site that you walk in sinless perfection? Or, are you admitting that you are bad, just not as bad as others?
Cabinetmaker stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this homosexual. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the homosexual, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.
You ARE going to hell, CM. Count on it.
So then Jesus didn't die for all sin.
naatmi
New member
Dying for sin doesn't mean it is forgiven unconditionally. You agree with that. Isn't the disagreement over what the condition is? Just because you say there is a condition, that doesn't mean Jesus didn't die for all sin.
Forgiveness is in Him. Those who are in Him have complete and unconditional forgiveness. To say otherwise is to call the death of Jesus a sham.
naatmi
New member
Being "in Him" is conditional. Except in the minds of universalists. However you want to say it doesn't make a difference. There is a condition of being "in Him" (more than one condition if someone has sinned).