ECT Things that are different are not the same!

[Nang]

The 12: Followed the pattern of salvation for Gentiles through God's use of an obedient Israel, conditional upon Israel's repentance of her King's murder (Acts 3:12-26).

Paul: Preached salvation for Jew and Gentile without distinction, by grace through faith, as the result of Israel's refusal to repent of Christ's murder (Rom 11:7-36).

Different audiences; same gospel.

 

[Nang]

The 12: Were the main figures in first 1/3 of Acts.

Paul: Was the main figure in the last 2/3 of Acts, with the 12 in the background if at all.

Different messengers; same message.

 

[Nang]

The 12: Preached the death of Christ as BAD news for Israel. Peter and Stephen, speaking by the Holy Spirit, indicted Israel for the murder of her King, commanding her to repent:

Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God TO YOU by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, and YOU YOURSELVES did know--Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, YOU have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death ... Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom YOU crucified, both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:22-36).

But YOU denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and killed the Prince of life...Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before (Acts 3:14-20).

We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom YOU murdered by hanging on a tree. Him God has exalted to His right hand, Prince and Savior, to give repentance TO ISRAEL and forgiveness of sin (Acts 5:29-31).

You stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! YOU always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do YOU. Which of the prophets did they not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom YOU now have become the betrayers and murderers (Acts 7:51-52).
​

Paul: Preached the death of Christ as GOOD news for individual Jews and Gentiles. Though Israel did not know it (no one did), her murder of Messiah was the one and only sacrifice that can reconcile all people to God:

For as you [Gentiles] were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through [Israel's] disobedience, even so [Israel] also has now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (Rom. 11:30-33)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God ... Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe (1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen (Gal. 1:3-5).

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe (Gal. 3:22).

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in Whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins (Col.1:13-14).
​

The one gospel is an aroma of death for the reprobate; an aroma of life for the sons of God.

Same gospel; different judgments.

 

[Nang]

The 12: Sent by Christ specifically to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them..." (Matt. 28:19).

Paul: "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel" (1 Cor 1:17).



The 12: Taught by Christ that Kingdom believers had to be baptized in water for entrance into the Kingdom:

He who believes AND is baptized will be saved... (Mark 16:16)

...be baptized...FOR the remission of sins, AND YOU SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit...(Acts 2:38)

Arise and be baptized, AND wash away your sins... (Acts 22:16)
​

Paul: Taught the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5 - by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ at salvation(1 Cor 12:13), without water.

Two aspects of baptism; resulting from belief in the one gospel.

 

[Nang]

The 12: Operated under Christ's promise that those who believe would have miraculous signs following them (snake-handling and poison-drinking, speaking languages they'd never studied, ability to heal the sick by touch, and the ability to cast out demons, Mark 16:14-18).

Paul: Taught that the Holy Spirit gave supernatural gifts for the edification of the Church (1 Cor 12:7) but gave no indication that all believers should expect to display all of the supernatural signs Christ foretold in Mark 16 (see 1 Cor 12:4, 1 Cor 12:30). Not only this, but Paul evidently lost the miraculous powers he once had (2 Tim 4:20). The reason: Miraculous signs were meant for Jews (1 Cor 1:22; 1 Cor 14:22) so when Israel made her final rejection of Christ, God withdrew the sign gifts. They remain withdrawn today and anything purporting to be sign gifts are faked or demonic counterfeits.

Different administrations of apostolic practices; nothing to do with the Gospel of God.

 

[Nang]

The 12: Taught about the Tribulation (the time of Jacob's [Israel's] Trouble) which is preceded by many signs. Taught nothing on the rapture of the Church, for it didn't yet exist nor was its existence yet revealed.

Paul: Taught all of what we know about the unpredictable rapture of the Church before the start of the Tribulation. Taught little if any on the Second Coming (because the Church, which is "not appointed to wrath," will not be here to see the Tribulation and is foretold to come back with Christ at His Second Coming).

The 12 did not teach about a "rapture" for it was never taught until the mid 1800s, when dispensationalists invented a new eschatology. All believers teach about tribulation prior to final resurrection; part of the one true gospel.

 

[Nang]

Peter, James and John were not chosen by Christ to be apostles to the Gentiles. Paul alone was given that duty. To diminish, ignore or despise the apostleship of Paul is to despise the will of the Lord Who commissioned him.

All the disciples were commissioned to preach the gospel to all the nations. Matthew 28:19

 

[Nang]

The Gospel preached by the 12 required the work of water baptism in conjunction with faith.

vs

Paul's Gospel didn't require anything but faith.

The 12 and Paul taught "one baptism" witnessing to faith in the one gospel of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 4:5

 

[Nang]

Nowhere, in all this spam Musterion, have you revealed any differences in the one true Gospel of God. Different audiences, different messengers, different administrations, different judgments, different beliefs, different nationalities, but only one Gospel proclaimed by those who were gifted with faith in its message of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and He crucified.

 

[journey]

The 12 did not teach about a "rapture" for it was never taught until the mid 1800s, when dispensationalists invented a new eschatology. All believers teach about tribulation prior to final resurrection; part of the one true gospel.

The Apostle Paul taught about the Rapture almost 2,000 years ago:

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 KJV 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 KJV 9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 KJV 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Revelation 3:10 KJV Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[Nang]

The Apostle Paul taught about the Rapture almost 2,000 years ago:

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 KJV 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 KJV 9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The scriptures above teach the universal and final resurrection of all souls, dead and alive, on the last Day. John 5:28-29

If there had been an earlier "secret rapture" of the church/believers, there would be no mention of living saints on this Day.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 KJV 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Revelation 3:10 KJV Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Saints who remain alive to that last Day, will persevere through any and all troubles, temptations, and tribulations by the power and presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Only those unbelievers, outside of Christ, will taste the wrath and judgments of God.

Dispensationalists have taken these scriptures and invented a "secret rapture" from them, which proves to be unbiblical and non-existent.

 

[musterion]

From brother David Cloud's email update I received just the other day. This is only about 1/2 of it.

MORGAN EDWARDS (1722-1795)

The pre-tribulation Rapture was taught by prominent Baptist leader Morgan Edwards. His Two Academical Exercises on the Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium and Last-Novelties was published in 1744 in Philadelphia.

Morgan Edwards was one of the most prominent Baptist leaders of his day. He was the pastor of the Baptist church in Philadelphia and the founder of Brown University, the first Baptist college in America. A summary of life was featured in the Baptist Encyclopedia. He was one of the first Baptist historians of repute, his Materials Toward A History of the Baptists (1770) providing a foundation for all subsequent works.

Following is what Edwards believed about Bible prophecy:

"The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years. I say, somewhat more; because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's 'appearing in the air' (I Thes. iv. 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many 'mansions in the father's house' (John xiv. 2), and disappear during the foresaid period of time. The design of this retreat and disappearing will be to judge the risen and changed saints; for 'now the time is come that judgment must begin,' and that will be 'at the house of God' (I Pet. iv. 17)" (Edwards, Two Academical Exercises on the Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium and Last-Novelties, 1744).

Edwards first wrote the previous statement in an senior essay while at Bristol Baptist College in Bristol, England, before coming to America. At the beginning of the essay, in a comment addressed to his teacher, Edwards said,

"And is it come to my lot to treat of the Millennium, or Christ thousand years reign on earth? Thousand pities, sir, that you had not allotted the task to one of these older and abler students! But since it is your pleasure, I will do my possible: and IN THE ATTEMPT WILL WORK BY A RULE YOU HAVE OFTEN RECOMMENDED, VIZ. 'TO TAKE THE SCRIPTURES IN A LITERAL SENSE, EXCEPT WHEN THAT LEADS TO CONTRADICTION OR ABSURDITY.'"

This rule of literal interpretation of prophecy is exactly the rule from which pre-Tribulationists work today. It is the rule that I teach in my courses on Bible interpretation.

Edwards bluntly rejected the allegorical approach. Of the millennial kingdom prophecies, he said, "Miserable work do the Antimillenarians make of these texts."

Edwards was writing 175 years before the destruction of the Ottoman Empire's hold on the land of Israel (1917) and 200 years before the establishment of the modern state of Israel (1948), yet he knew that these things would happen. Consider the following fascinating prediction that he made based on a literal interpretation of Bible prophecy:

"The Turkish or Ottoman Empire will be demolished; for otherwise the right owners cannot posses their inheritance ... The twelve tribes (as observed before) will return to their ancient inheritance, else how can the twelve apostles be their judges? ... In this united capacity they will rebuild Jerusalem in its place, and the temple in its place on mount Zion; for in this temple will antichrist sit as god, and be the abomination mentioned by Daniel, and referred to by Christ" (Edwards, Two Academical Exercises on the Subjects Bearing the Following Titles; Millennium and Last-Novelties, 1744).

From the case of Morgan Edwards, it is obvious that there were Baptists in the 18th century in England and America who held the literal principle of interpretation of Bible prophecy as opposed to the allegorical.

We must remember that most preachers do not leave a permanent record of their teaching. From Paul's day to ours, the vast majority of sound preachers have been common men as opposed to scholars.

Typically, they are not writers and do not publish books. In the record church history, we only have a tiny glimpse into what was happening, and that glimpse is based on the pittance that has survived of the little that was ever recorded.

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty" (1 Cor. 1:26-27).


EPHRAEM THE SYRIAN (AD c. 303-373)

We now go back to two centuries after the apostles. Ephraem is venerated as a "saint" by the Catholic and Orthodox churches, but they would not allow him to teach his doctrine of prophecy today.

Ephraem is called "the Syrian" because he lived in that region.

He was a voluminous writer. Many of his sermons and psalms are included in the 16-volume Post-Nicene Library. (The Council of Nicea was held in AD 325, and historians divide the "fathers" into Ante-Nicene, before 325, and Post-Nicene, after 325).

Some of Ephraem's sermons and hymns are used in the liturgy of Orthodox churches.

In the 1990s some of Ephraem's writings were translated into English for the first time, one of these being On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, A.D. 373.

The translation was done by Professor Cameron Rhoades of Tyndale Theological Seminary at the bequest of Grant R. Jeffrey. It was subsequently published in Jeffrey's 1995 book Final Warning.

It is obvious that Ephraem believed in a literal fulfillment of prophecy, including a Rapture of New Testament saints prior to the Tribulation.

"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins" (Ephraem the Syrian, On the Last Times).

Observe that Ephraem taught that the saints will be taken to the Lord so they will not see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world, which is exactly what 1 Thessalonians 5:3-9 says.

Ephraem taught a literal antichrist who will sit in a literal rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, a literal 3.5 year Tribulation, a literal Two Witnesses or prophets who will preach in Jerusalem, a literal battle of Gog and Magog.

"And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know, and on the day which the enemy or son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of the word of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints. ... Then Christ shall come and the enemy shall be thrown into confusion, and the Lord shall destroy him by the Spirit of his mouth. And he shall be bound and shall be plunged into the abyss of everlasting fire alive with his father Satan; and all people, who do his wishes, shall perish with him forever; but the righteous ones shall inherit everlasting life with the Lord for ever and ever" (Ephraem the Syrian, On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, A.D. 373).

Ephraem believed in the imminency of the return of Christ and urged his fellow Christians to live godly lives in expectation of His return.

There's more. Nang will dismiss it all, of course.

 

[Nang]

From brother David Cloud's email update I received just the other day. This is only about 1/2 of it.

There's more. Nang will dismiss it all, of course.

Yes, I dismiss the literal interpretation of the millennium, earlier called "Chiliasm" which the early church also dismissed as error in the formation of the Nicene Creed.

Seems this is wrong teaching has been regurgitated by Morgan Edwards, more so than any actual teaching of a "secret rapture."

His view of a disappearance of the church, is not to escape wrath, or to receive heavenly comfort as Paul promises the church in I Corinthians 15 and I Thessalonians 4. He contradicts Paul's teachings by claiming: "The design of this retreat and disappearing will be to judge the risen and changed saints; for 'now the time is come that judgment must begin,' and that will be 'at the house of God'"

That is not the modern (Darby, Scofield, etc.) view of the supposed Rapture, and I doubt you can really believe this version, or that the saints, who have been redeemed by Christ, who suffered their judgment in their stead, would be raptured away for the primary purpose of being judged for their sins. Makes no sense to me.

John 5:28-29 defines exactly the purpose for the final and universal resurrection of all souls on the last Day. This is the final event of history, and the saints still living on that last Day, will resurrect to LIFE, not judgment. Not a temporary escape from tribulation, either, only meant for the poor Jews who remain behind, before they are finally resurrected again to condemnation.

:nono:

Any form of a secret disappearing of the church in time, is a wrong and bleak belief, with a strong hint of anti-Semitism, if you ask me.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psa 18:3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
Psa 18:4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.
Psa 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
Psa 18:6 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
Psa 18:7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
Psa 18:8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Psa 18:9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
Psa 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
Psa 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
Psa 18:12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
Psa 18:13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.
Psa 18:14 Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.
Psa 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
Psa 18:16 He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.
Psa 18:17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.
Psa 18:18 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay.
Psa 18:19 He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
Psa 18:20 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
Psa 18:21 For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God.
Psa 18:22 For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me.
Psa 18:23 I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity.
Psa 18:24 Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.
Psa 18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
Psa 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
Psa 18:27 For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.


2Th 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[john w]

The 12 did not teach about a "rapture" for it was never taught until the mid 1800s, when dispensationalists invented a new eschatology. All believers teach about tribulation prior to final resurrection; part of the one true gospel.

Made up, Naggie, as I, and others, have shown quotes re. the "catching away, from 1600 or so years ago. You just spammed that from a website, or Tet. .

Naggie asserts that the earth was flat once, that the LORD God was not the LORD God, until revealed to Moses, God the Father was not God the Father, until the Lord Jesus Christ taught it, and the principles of the Reformation were not true-1500's.

 

[john w]

Nowhere, in all this spam Musterion, have you revealed any differences in the one true Gospel of God. Different audiences, different messengers, different administrations, different judgments, different beliefs, different nationalities, but only one Gospel proclaimed by those who were gifted with faith in its message of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and He crucified.

Naggie: Judas preached the one true Gospel of God, this "only one Gospel," and asserts that Judas was "gifted with faith in its message of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and He crucified."

On record.

 

[Nang]

Made up, Naggie, as I, and others, have shown quotes re. the "catching away, from 1600 or so years ago. You just spammed that from a website, or Tet. .

Naggie asserts that the earth was flat once, that the LORD God was not the LORD God, until revealed to Moses, God the Father was not God the Father, until the Lord Jesus Christ taught it, and the principles of the Reformation were not true-1500's.

You are a crazy person, unable to support the nonsense you post.

 

[Nang]

Naggie: Judas preached the one true Gospel of God, this "only one Gospel," and asserts that Judas was "gifted with faith in its message of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and He crucified."

On record.

You are a crazy person, unable to support the nonsense you post.

 

[steko]

The 12 did not teach about a "rapture" for it was never taught until the mid 1800s, when dispensationalists invented a new eschatology. All believers teach about tribulation prior to final resurrection; part of the one true gospel.

You're right, the twelve didn't, but..........Paul did.

 

[Nang]

You're right, the twelve didn't, but..........Paul did.

Paul never taught a "secret disappearing rapture" of the church.