THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE TO NOT TRUST IN OSAS.
- Thread starter Grosnick Marowbe
- Start date
Right Divider
Body part
I would say that it's the exact opposite.
Perseverance sounds like human effort to me.
If you're saved in the dispensation of the grace of God, you're sealed with the holy spirit of promise.
"Not by man" means not by man
Right Divider
Body part
:luigi:
You're just, busy as a bee trying to get that false doctrine out there huh?
You might see your physician about that problem buddy?
genuineoriginal
New member
Christ (Χριστός Christos) is the Greek word for anointed.
Messiah (מָשִׁיחַ mashiyach) is the Hebrew word for anointed.
Christ is most definitely our Messiah.
Jesus (Ἰησοῦς Iēsous) is the Greek version of Joshua (יְשׁוּעָה yĕshuw`ah), which means salvation.
genuineoriginal
New member
No, I gave up the false doctrines taught in the mainstream churches after I started reading the Bible for myself.
genuineoriginal
New member
Jesus said to knock the dust off my feet when I meet people like you.
Christ is seated in His Fathers Throne presently and will always have the authority of it as Joseph did of Pharoahs.
Peter explains it here to the Jews who were confused about it then also--
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
LA
Gros was called by God to know His son Jesus Christ, but alas he has put on the other fellow full of the flesh, pride and self importance. Every true saint knows gros turned away from Christ years ago.
LA
Ask Mr. Religion
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Perseverance of the Saints Explained
Perseverance of the Saints Explained
OSAS tends to lead to the view that there is nothing remaining for the believer in their walk of faith. Who denies that there are not a few of those that sign the pledge card or answer a Finneyistic altar call soon show themselves to be not of us for they went out of us?
The reason is that the typical OSAS view, never carefully explained from the pulpit, ends up in error, such as in Keswickian Exchanged Life views that include rationales leading to licentiousness--doing whatever a person wants "now that I am saved and always will be". OSAS fosters the wrong mindset, for example:
Beloved, believers are not mere punctiliar (one-time event) Christians. The Spirit waters and feeds our repentance and faith through the means of grace. These means keep us alive in the faith and are not just a means for starting us in the faith. God commands our ongoing attention to our faith, that we examine ourselves (feed our faith, starve our doubts) to make sure our faith is real. God also provides that which He commands, ordaining the ends as well as the means to the ends—even the believer's conversion (re-birth, faith, sanctification, final glory). Augustine's little prayer sums it up: "O Lord, grant what Thou dost command and command what Thou dost desire." Pelagius never grasped what Augustine meant, failing to see that no one can please God unless God provides us in some manner via His means to meet His requirements.
As Scripture teaches, enduring to the end, holding fast to the faith, abiding in Christ and His Word are vital to one's conversion (“conversion” here meaning the full salvific process). If these evidences of faith do not exist a professing Christian, upon self examination, should question their conversion to prove it out. But in no way whatsoever does this perseverance imply doing good works. Rather it is from the believer’s duty, their “oughtness” that good works springs, and yet even these good works are not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ.
But, and this is important, there are some who would hold that a true believer may not persevere and can be ultimately lost. Such is but the view originating from Rome that has smuggled into evangelicals who harbor semi-Pelagianism bringing dishonor to God and Our Lord for what He did for us.
At this point, some would then ask, "Well, if the believer will persevere then why do the Scriptures contain admonitions and warning verses for salvation?" In reply I answer, as noted above, God ordains the end but also the means to the end. One of those means of God for His glory is the perseverance of the believer in faith to the end. God effects His means of perseverance in the believer by admonishing them of the consequences of not persevering to the end. We must take these admonishments seriously. Why? Because these admonishments serve as a means to stir up the faithful.
An example from Scripture might help explain. Consider Paul about to be shipwrecked in Acts 27. We read that God had assured Paul that no one would lose their life in that shipwreck. Yet, despite this clear assurance from God, Paul, being stirred up, admonishes those on the ship that unless the persons trying to leave by the lifeboat remain on board, those on the ship would not be saved. Note here that the Apostle was assured of their salvation, Paul knew the means of their salvation, and his warning produced the desired result.
Speaking under the superintended inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Peter tells us that those who are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God" and "begotten again unto a lively hope" are "kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Peter 1:2-5).
Indeed, God's almighty power preserves the true believer so that he or she receives that final and complete salvation that will be revealed at the eschaton. It can be no other way, for the work of salvation is God's work and God's work does not fail.
The teachings of the perseverance of the saints in Scripture is succinctly described in the Westminster Confession of Faith as follows:
Chapter XVII - Of the Perseverance of the Saints.
1. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved. (Phil. 1:6, 2 Pet. 1:10, 1 John 3:9, 1 Pet. 1:5,9)
2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; (2 Tim. 2:18-19, Jer. 31:3) upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, (Heb. 10:10, 14, Heb. 13:20-21, Heb. 9:12-15, Rom. 8:33-39, John 17:11, 24, Luke 22:32, Heb. 7:25) the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, (John 14:16-17, 1 John 2:27, 1 John 3:9) and the nature of the covenant of grace: (Jer. 32:40) from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof. (John 10:28, 2 Thess. 3:3, 1 John 2:19)
3. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; (Matt. 26:70, 72, 74) and, for a time, continue therein: (Ps. 51 title, Ps. 51:1) whereby they incur God’s displeasure, (Isa. 64:5, 7, 9, 2 Sam. 11:27) and grieve His Holy Spirit, (Eph. 4:30) come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, (Ps. 51:8, 10, 12, Rev. 2:4, Cant. 5:2-4, 6) have their hearts hardened, (Isa. 63:17, Mark 6:52, Mark 16:14) and their consciences wounded; (Ps. 32:3-4, Ps. 51:8) hurt and scandalize others, (2 Sam. 12:14) and bring temporal judgments upon themselves. (Ps. 89:31-32, 1 Cor. 11:32)
AMR
Perseverance of the Saints Explained
OSAS tends to lead to the view that there is nothing remaining for the believer in their walk of faith. Who denies that there are not a few of those that sign the pledge card or answer a Finneyistic altar call soon show themselves to be not of us for they went out of us?
The reason is that the typical OSAS view, never carefully explained from the pulpit, ends up in error, such as in Keswickian Exchanged Life views that include rationales leading to licentiousness--doing whatever a person wants "now that I am saved and always will be". OSAS fosters the wrong mindset, for example:
Beloved, believers are not mere punctiliar (one-time event) Christians. The Spirit waters and feeds our repentance and faith through the means of grace. These means keep us alive in the faith and are not just a means for starting us in the faith. God commands our ongoing attention to our faith, that we examine ourselves (feed our faith, starve our doubts) to make sure our faith is real. God also provides that which He commands, ordaining the ends as well as the means to the ends—even the believer's conversion (re-birth, faith, sanctification, final glory). Augustine's little prayer sums it up: "O Lord, grant what Thou dost command and command what Thou dost desire." Pelagius never grasped what Augustine meant, failing to see that no one can please God unless God provides us in some manner via His means to meet His requirements.
As Scripture teaches, enduring to the end, holding fast to the faith, abiding in Christ and His Word are vital to one's conversion (“conversion” here meaning the full salvific process). If these evidences of faith do not exist a professing Christian, upon self examination, should question their conversion to prove it out. But in no way whatsoever does this perseverance imply doing good works. Rather it is from the believer’s duty, their “oughtness” that good works springs, and yet even these good works are not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ.
But, and this is important, there are some who would hold that a true believer may not persevere and can be ultimately lost. Such is but the view originating from Rome that has smuggled into evangelicals who harbor semi-Pelagianism bringing dishonor to God and Our Lord for what He did for us.
At this point, some would then ask, "Well, if the believer will persevere then why do the Scriptures contain admonitions and warning verses for salvation?" In reply I answer, as noted above, God ordains the end but also the means to the end. One of those means of God for His glory is the perseverance of the believer in faith to the end. God effects His means of perseverance in the believer by admonishing them of the consequences of not persevering to the end. We must take these admonishments seriously. Why? Because these admonishments serve as a means to stir up the faithful.
An example from Scripture might help explain. Consider Paul about to be shipwrecked in Acts 27. We read that God had assured Paul that no one would lose their life in that shipwreck. Yet, despite this clear assurance from God, Paul, being stirred up, admonishes those on the ship that unless the persons trying to leave by the lifeboat remain on board, those on the ship would not be saved. Note here that the Apostle was assured of their salvation, Paul knew the means of their salvation, and his warning produced the desired result.
Speaking under the superintended inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Peter tells us that those who are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God" and "begotten again unto a lively hope" are "kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Peter 1:2-5).
Indeed, God's almighty power preserves the true believer so that he or she receives that final and complete salvation that will be revealed at the eschaton. It can be no other way, for the work of salvation is God's work and God's work does not fail.
The teachings of the perseverance of the saints in Scripture is succinctly described in the Westminster Confession of Faith as follows:
Chapter XVII - Of the Perseverance of the Saints.
1. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved. (Phil. 1:6, 2 Pet. 1:10, 1 John 3:9, 1 Pet. 1:5,9)
2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; (2 Tim. 2:18-19, Jer. 31:3) upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, (Heb. 10:10, 14, Heb. 13:20-21, Heb. 9:12-15, Rom. 8:33-39, John 17:11, 24, Luke 22:32, Heb. 7:25) the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, (John 14:16-17, 1 John 2:27, 1 John 3:9) and the nature of the covenant of grace: (Jer. 32:40) from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof. (John 10:28, 2 Thess. 3:3, 1 John 2:19)
3. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; (Matt. 26:70, 72, 74) and, for a time, continue therein: (Ps. 51 title, Ps. 51:1) whereby they incur God’s displeasure, (Isa. 64:5, 7, 9, 2 Sam. 11:27) and grieve His Holy Spirit, (Eph. 4:30) come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, (Ps. 51:8, 10, 12, Rev. 2:4, Cant. 5:2-4, 6) have their hearts hardened, (Isa. 63:17, Mark 6:52, Mark 16:14) and their consciences wounded; (Ps. 32:3-4, Ps. 51:8) hurt and scandalize others, (2 Sam. 12:14) and bring temporal judgments upon themselves. (Ps. 89:31-32, 1 Cor. 11:32)
AMR
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Feel free. Place me on ignore? No skin off my nose. You're kind of a bore anyway.
Still making predictions huh? First you tell me I'll have my head cut off
one these days. You also predict another poster will die from being shot
full of arrows. Then, you predict another poster will be burned up. Now,
you claim every saint (in the entire world) KNOWS that I turned away
from my faith long ago. You really are another Nostradamus.
Lady, when will you gain your sanity back?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Our salvation (OSAS) is in no way based upon anything that we do or continue to do (POTS), but what the Lord hath done!
So, you are now absolved of any responsibility for anything you do or say, right?
Right Divider
Body part
What do you expect from someone that calls themselves "Ask Mr. Religion"?
I would expect a bunch of religion. Blah, blah, blah.....
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
For salvation, yes.
But her works will be tried by fire by the LORD.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Right Divider
Body part
Classic false conclusion.
Rom 6:14-15 KJV For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
That was a simple yes or no question put to Heir, not you guys. During the course of this thread the two of you have answered for her on occasion but one of my many points is that though you may do so here with what you think is good intent you cannot do so in the judgment.
Of course, the three of you think you are judgement proof because of the doctrines you have embraced. Now, while I don't doubt that God knows the names on the list of the Lambs Book of Life one point I would offer is that man does not; hence the many warnings in the Bible, your hero Paul's included.
Another point that I would offer is that I am trying to warn her of the cliff I see her headed for and you two are saying there is no cliff. If I'm wrong, no great harm. If you two are wrong, dead girl.
Think about it. Do you really want that on your head? Are you really willing to bet her life on you being right?
Of course, the three of you think you are judgement proof because of the doctrines you have embraced. Now, while I don't doubt that God knows the names on the list of the Lambs Book of Life one point I would offer is that man does not; hence the many warnings in the Bible, your hero Paul's included.
Another point that I would offer is that I am trying to warn her of the cliff I see her headed for and you two are saying there is no cliff. If I'm wrong, no great harm. If you two are wrong, dead girl.
Think about it. Do you really want that on your head? Are you really willing to bet her life on you being right?