THERE ARE TWO GODS

[Elia]

IL of EL always means God or gods. The word Elohim is of Aramaic origin and should be translated as such, not by modern Hebrew.
(Elohim / Elohiym) means: (God / gods) of the (living / many / ones / beings.)

Bs"d

So now you are going to worship Moses as well?

"So the anger of Y-H-W-H was kindled against Moses, and He said: “Is not Aaron the Levite your brother? I know that he can speak well. And look, he is also coming out to meet you. When he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. 15 Now you shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth. And I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will teach you what you shall do. 16 So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him for an elohiem"
Ex 4

"So Y-H-W-H said to Moses: “See, I have made you elohiem to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet."




"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5
Ex 7:1

 

[Lon]

By the way you have now made matters worse for yourself.

As a rule, I ignore heresy and those who embrace it unless they show themselves to be correctable, especially on TOL. A Jew is caught in his traditions. You are making this up as you go with no background or education that provides you the necessary tools. That means you can drive anyway you like, but are not a driving instructor.

 

[Ktoyou]

You stick to what you want. We'll worship the God is the Bible.

Ella is a goofball anyway.

 

[daqq]

As a rule, I ignore heresy and those who embrace it unless they show themselves to be correctable, especially on TOL. A Jew is caught in his traditions. You are making this up as you go with no background or education that provides you the necessary tools. That means you can drive anyway you like, but are not a driving instructor.

When you say, "I ignore heresy and those who embrace it unless they show themselves to be correctable", you reveal that in your heart you already consider yourself to be the Judge of who is a heretic and who is not as well as the fact that you reveal that your inflated pride has caused you to believe that you, instead of God, are become the teacher of those who are willing to show themselves "correctable" unto you. You are living in a fantasy world so please hurry up and put me on ignore if that is what you are going to do. Otherwise why do you continue to waver between two opinions, O teacher of those willing to bow before you and show themselves correctable? I will not be bowing to you or your erroneous doctrine so as to show myself subservient to your erroneous corrections based in carnal man buffoonery. If you have some scripture that will correct something I have posted then THAT is what I will hear. For the same reason you cannot hear me, and neither are you correctable, and neither do I expect you to be "correctable" unto me; however, you have always ignored the scripture that is posted in my defenses and arguments: and for that you will answer to the Real Teacher. :chuckle:

 

[Zeke]

By the way you have now made matters worse for yourself because you have employed an allegory of the body: as most everyone knows, a team is clearly the same principle in that every team member, or "member of the body", acts in concert with his or her fellow members, as if all are of one mind, (GSN#1520 heis-hen) so as to accomplish a singular goal. You have now admitted by default that the entire body of Messiah is equal to "God Almighty" by your errant belief system whether you know it or not. The Testimony of Yeshua exposes your error because the Revelation which Yeshua gives through his prayer to the Father, recorded in John 17, employs the exact same terminology even down to the form of the word, ("hen") concerning the "oneness" that he desires for us and him. You cannot interpret one passage one way and the other passage another way just because it fits your dogma, (well, you can but that only makes you part of the reason why the next generation is fleeing from your pulpits and pews, lol). The John 10:30 passage employs the exact same form of the same word, ("hen", GSN#1520 "heis") concerning the oneness of Yeshua and the Father:

John 10:30 KJV
30. I and my Father are one [GSN#1520 heis (hen)].

John 17:20-23 KJV
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] even as we are one: [GSN#1520 heis (hen)]
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Maybe Paul's benevolent ploy of becoming a Jew, Barbarian, etc..needs to be updated now to Educated Calvinist, a high collared Piccadilly stuck in a exclusive fetish. All things to all Calvinist saith the wind.

 

[CherubRam]

Bs"d

So now you are going to worship Moses as well?

"So the anger of Y-H-W-H was kindled against Moses, and He said: “Is not Aaron the Levite your brother? I know that he can speak well. And look, he is also coming out to meet you. When he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. 15 Now you shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth. And I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will teach you what you shall do. 16 So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him for an elohiem"
Ex 4

"So Y-H-W-H said to Moses: “See, I have made you elohiem to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet."




"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5
Ex 7:1

Elohim / elohiym is not a name, it is a title.

 

[CherubRam]

Elohim does not always mean multiple gods. The god of the Philistines, Dagon, was referred to as "elohim," and yet Dagon was not a trinity.

Elohim / elohiym is not a name, it is a title.

 

[daqq]

Maybe Paul's benevolent ploy of becoming a Jew, Barbarian, etc..needs to be updated now to Educated Calvinist, a high collared Piccadilly stuck in a exclusive fetish. All things to all Calvinist saith the wind.

Yeah, I think perhaps he may have gotten a little bent out of shape over that post. It would have been better for him to put me on ignore, if that be the case, for you see the scripture that was posted and that is much more likely what really blew his gaskets.

 

[jamie]

So there is ONE all-mighty God mentioned at John 1:1.

Did the ONE all-mighty God mentioned at John 1:1 create everything that exists?

 

[OCTOBER23]

R-E-S-P-E-C-T FOR YOUR FELLOW POSTERS.

I LIKE THE WAY ELIA DRIVES HIS POINTS ACROSS.

We are here to Discuss and Reason and NOT TO PUT DOWN OTHERS.

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Elia and Kingdom Rose , thank you for your interesting comments.

ONE TRUE GOD
---------------------------------
Old Testament - True God = Lord God.

2 Samuel 7:28 And now, O Lord GOD, thou art that God, and thy words be true,

Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king:

New Testament - True God = The Father Because the LORD God was now a human being.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know (The Father) him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
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ALMIGHTY GOD OF OLD TESTAMENT IS JESUS OF NEW TESTAMENT.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
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ps. Kingdomrose - ho ho ho

 

[jamie]

Elohim does not always mean multiple gods.

Elohim is a uniplural noun like team or family or nation.

 

[OCTOBER23]

Jesus is a God in the Flesh

There were two Gods ruling the Universe and now there is only ONE.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,

and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

[keypurr]

No, sorry but you are wrong. I am 70 and after a lifetime trying to believe the impossibilities of the Bible I finally, since now semi-retired, decided to do a study of the book. Now it is impossible to take seriously. Infallible word of God? Ha! So loaded with inconsistency, no appearance of a loving God I could find anywhere in the OT and documented changes in text made by ruling secular leaders and so much more.

Why are you so afraid? Because you're scared you aren't really saved isn't it? There isn't any "afterlife" so once gone...gone for good.

Once you do really study, and not just absurd religious dogma, you may be joining me.

I am eighty and your in darkness. The truth has not been given to most, that is why it has been distorted, but it is there if you seek it with prayer and a seeking mind.

 

[OCTOBER23]

My dear KEYPURR,

I have seriously looked at your Theory and it does not hold water
and you are all wet because you cannot back it up with scripture as
I CAN with my Conclusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us look at HEBREWS where it talks about the ONE WHO GAVE THE LAW.

The Lord of the old Testament Gave the Law of Physical Obedience
but by DEATH has Annulled the Old Physical Covenant and
introduced the Spiritual Law of Overcoming and Purifying the Mind.

Therefore, JESUS was the LORD of the Old Testament.
------------------------------------------------------------

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity
be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead:
otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[keypurr]

My dear KEYPURR,

I have seriously looked at your Theory and it does not hold water
and you are all wet because you cannot back it up with scripture as
I CAN with my Conclusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us look at HEBREWS where it talks about the ONE WHO GAVE THE LAW.

The Lord of the old Testament Gave the Law of Physical Obedience
but by DEATH has Annulled the Old Physical Covenant and
introduced the Spiritual Law of Overcoming and Purifying the Mind.

Therefore, JESUS was the LORD of the Old Testament.
------------------------------------------------------------

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity
be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead:
otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

First of all Jesus is not LORD of the OT.
Jesus is a man anointed with the express image of the Father.

And my theory has nothing to do with the Law or the verses you post. Your in darkness Hal. Do you not know that your body is the Temple? Do you not realize that spirits are among us? The son of God is a spirit like his Father.

 

[Charity]

First of all Jesus is not LORD of the OT.
Jesus is a man anointed with the express image of the Father.

And my theory has nothing to do with the Law or the verses you post. Your in darkness Hal. Do you not know that your body is the Temple? Do you not realize that spirits are among us? The son of God is a spirit like his Father.

In heaven, a woman was about to deliver her son, when a dragon appeared, which flicked his tail knocking a third of the stars down onto the earth. about the same time on earth, Herod sent his roman guards out to destroy Babies under the age of two..after being mocked by three wise men... all of king Davids decendants were destroyed, those that had lived on the out skirts of the city for the past 500 years, because, only the Moses house of jews were permitted to live in the city....
There is much more to understand about the Body being a temple, An the spirit of any one Father...the blood that runs threw the veins... That would bring respect an privileges, or shame.
arguments are as fruitless as the old tree they all came from, an as evident in time.. as A third of the star's the dragons tail flicked down to earth.

 

[Elia]

ALMIGHTY GOD OF OLD TESTAMENT IS JESUS OF NEW TESTAMENT.

Bs"d

No he is not. For the finer details look HERE




"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[Elia]

Elohim is a uniplural noun like team or family or nation.

Bs"d

For more about the word "elohiem" from a CHRISTIAN source, look here: http://torahofmessiah.org/meaning-of-elohim-echad/

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPER.

 

[Elia]

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Bs"d

For that prophecy of Isaiah 7 look HERE




"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[OCTOBER23]

ELIA posted this link........
MountZion

1. If anybody says that JC is the same as Y-H-W-H then you are stuck with the fact that Y-H-W-H is his own son and at the same time his own father.

1a.The ancient Hebrew language that the Old Testament was written in did not have vowels in its alphabet. In written form, ancient Hebrew was a consonant-only language. In the original Hebrew, God’s name transliterates to YHWH . This is known as the tetragrammaton .
The tetragrammaton consists of four Hebrew letters: yodh, he, waw, and then he repeated. Some versions of the Bible translate the tetragrammaton as Yahweh, Jehovah or LORD.

2.Then you are stuck with the fact that when JC prays to his father, YHWH , he is praying to himself.

2a. Jesus said that the Father is Greater than he . Jesus was the YHWH, God of the OT
and God the Father was watching the results of the Project.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.


3. Luke 22:41-42: “and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done." So here Y-H-W-H has a different will than himself?

3a. God the Father sent Jesus down to become a Human Being
and thus, ONLY THE FATHER WAS LEFT IN HEAVEN. John 1:1

4. Even in heaven JC is subjected to the Father, according to Corinthians 15:28,
Matthew 20:23, Fillipens 2:9, and others. So Y-H-W-H is subjected to himself???

--What is Fillipens 2:9 ?????? - Obvious blblical ignorance .

4a. A Son is usually subject to his Father because the Father is
the Ultimate Authority over the Universe.

5.When JC was hanging at the cross, he cried out:
“My God, my God, why did you forsake me?” Matthew 27:46
So Y-H-W-H forsook himself?

5a. The Father is Greater than Jesus.

6. Collossians 3:1; Set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated
at the right hand of God the Father.
6a. Rightly corrected.

7. Y-H-W-H died at the cross, slaughtered by his own creatures
If so, who resurrected him?
7a. The Bible says that the Father Resurrected JESUS.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ,
and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

--------------------Easily Answered by someone who studies the Bible daily ----------------