THERE ARE TWO GODS

daqq

Well-known member
BS"d (I thought you were cussing when you first used that).

Jesus disagreed with you. And you are correct I cannot 'count' God. You try, but such is beyond you as well. We can ONLY embrace revelation He has given. That's it. Anything beyond His own estimate of Himself is a human tugging on the robes of God. Stay with BS"d more than "Elia's Help."



:nono: Not true: "They were one team, the Aquanauts." "There is only one Aquanauts."

Trinity literally means "three-one." "They" and "He" become the expression and, the gospel of John doesn't balk at that and employs such consistently.

Objection comes from those trying to 'count' God. That's an impossibility and I say again, the ONLY thing we can do is read and embrace scripture He has given revealing Himself. You can't get to God any other way. We are finite, He is infinite. You can't count to infinity.

How then do you understand the seven Spirits of Elohim if indeed you believe the Revelation that Yeshua was given and has given to us? Or do you just ignore the book of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua and simply stop counting at three while claiming that you cannot count? You clearly do not believe the Revelation he has given or you would come up with a better name that means "seven-one", or maybe, "eight-one".

If "God" always means "God" to you then perhaps you need to invest in some schooling and go learn how to count up to seven or eight. Claiming it is "God's sovereign will" that you cannot count past three is not going to get you off the hook, (O ye wily Calvinites). :chuckle:

Revelation 1:1 KJV
1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 4:5 KJV
5. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
 

CherubRam

New member
THERE ARE TWO GODS

-John 1:1 says there are 2 Gods.

- I am getting tired of you guys not reading your bible.

- First you say that there are 3 Gods in the Trinity

and it shows plainly that the so-called Third person

is the MIND of Christ as it states in the Bible.

Jesus has a Throne and the Father has a Throne
but none for the Comforter

The Comforter seems to be GREATER than the Father and Son
because you will not be forgiven if you blaspheme it.

The Comforter is a Combination of the Father's spirit and
the Son's spirit and therefore, if you Blaspheme it ,
you are Blaspheming both of them.

-----------------------------------------------------------

- Then the Jewish guys say that the LORD GOD is One

and have NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.

-Jesus said that HE WAS THE LORD GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

which the Bible backs up with scriptures in Hebrews 9 as the

Testator who changed things by dying.

-Jesus said that he came to Reveal God the Father to them.

-Jesus Prayed to the Father, the One True God in Heaven
while the other God, JESUS was on the Earth.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore, it is obvious that there are only 2 Gods.

Commentary on John 1:1.



Pantheion

Greek pantheion, from pan 'all' + theion 'Divine Eternal-s' (from theios 'divine.')
From Greek aion, meaning Eternal, for an infinite amount of time Pantheion: Pan/the/ion. All Divine Eternal-s. The word “All” makes it plural.

aeon or aion or eon
1. An immeasurably long period of time. From Greek, Aion, an infinitely long time.

Greek word TON and THEON.
From the Scripture4All program. Link: www.scripture4all.org/

The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "the only Divine Eternal." In English the word “one” can also be translated as “only.” TON: The only. THEON: Divine Eternal.

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one and only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?


Theon and Theos
They both mean Divine, but in different cases. Theos is the nominative, Theon is accusative. Another form is Theou, which is genitive.

John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [τὸν θεὸν, (TON THEON) literally, the only Divine Eternal], and the Word was divine. [θεὸς].”

In the first instance (“the Word was with the only Divine Eternal”) it is in the accusative case and thus is spelled θεὸν [theon] But in the second occurrence it is in the nominative case, and so it is spelled θεὸς [theos]
Ton Theon was also applied to Zeus, meaning "The Only Divine Eternal."

Eon or Aeon; a very long time.
The word aeon, also spelled eon or æon, originally means "life", and / or "being", though it then tended to mean "age", "forever" or "for eternity". It is a Latin transliteration from the koine Greek word ὁ αἰών (ho aion), from the archaic αἰϝών (aiwon).

In Homer it typically refers to life or lifespan. Its latest meaning is more or less similar to the Sanskrit word kalpa and Hebrew word olam. A cognate Latin word aevum or aeuum (cf. αἰϝών) for "age" is present in words such as longevity.

Although the term aeon may be used in reference to a period of a billion years, its more common usage is for any long, indefinite, period.

Eternity or age
The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. Both these words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as “age” or “age-during”. Other English versions most often translate them to indicate eternity, being translated as eternal, everlasting, forever, etc. However, there are notable exceptions to this in all major translations, such as Matthew 28:20: “…I am with you always, to the end of the age” (NRSV), the word “age” being a translation of aion.
Rendering aion to indicate eternality in this verse would result in the contradictory phrase “end of eternity”, so the question arises whether it should ever be so.

Proponents of Universal Reconciliation point out that this has significant implications for the problem of an eternal hell.

Contrast readings of Matthew 25:46 in well-known English translations with its rendering in Young's Literal Translation:
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during. (YLT)

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (NIV)

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (NASB)

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV)

And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life. (NWT)

The word "Divine" is a translation, and the word "god" is an interpretation. The reason the word "god" is an interpretation, is because it derived from the name of a Pagan god.

Additional Note.
Theosophy
Theosophy (from Greek θεοσοφία theosophia, from θεός theos, divine + σοφία sophia, wisdom; literally "divine wisdom")

The word theosophia appeared in both Greek and Latin in early Christian writings as a synonym for “theology”. The theosophoi are “those who know divine matters.”
 

daqq

Well-known member
Originally Posted by Lon

:nono: Not true: "They were one team, the Aquanauts." "There is only one Aquanauts."

Trinity literally means "three-one." "They" and "He" become the expression and, the gospel of John doesn't balk at that and employs such consistently.

Objection comes from those trying to 'count' God. That's an impossibility and I say again, the ONLY thing we can do is read and embrace scripture He has given revealing Himself. You can't get to God any other way. We are finite, He is infinite. You can't count to infinity.

By the way you have now made matters worse for yourself because you have employed an allegory of the body: as most everyone knows, a team is clearly the same principle in that every team member, or "member of the body", acts in concert with his or her fellow members, as if all are of one mind, (GSN#1520 heis-hen) so as to accomplish a singular goal. You have now admitted by default that the entire body of Messiah is equal to "God Almighty" by your errant belief system whether you know it or not. The Testimony of Yeshua exposes your error because the Revelation which Yeshua gives through his prayer to the Father, recorded in John 17, employs the exact same terminology even down to the form of the word, ("hen") concerning the "oneness" that he desires for us and him. You cannot interpret one passage one way and the other passage another way just because it fits your dogma, (well, you can but that only makes you part of the reason why the next generation is fleeing from your pulpits and pews, lol). The John 10:30 passage employs the exact same form of the same word, ("hen", GSN#1520 "heis") concerning the oneness of Yeshua and the Father:

John 10:30 KJV
30. I and my Father are one [GSN#1520 heis (hen)].

John 17:20-23 KJV
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] even as we are one: [GSN#1520 heis (hen)]
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; [GSN#1520 heis (hen)] and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
 

OCTOBER23

New member
JESUS SAID THAT GOD THE FATHER IS ONE .

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

JESUS probably knew that they would start this Trinity Gobbledegook later.

THE QUESTION IS , WHICH GOD WAS JESUS REFERRING TO.

The Answer is that JESUS came to REVEAL THE FATHER TO US.

And since, NO MAN HAS SEEN THE FATHER THEN WHO DID MOSES SEE ON THE MOUNT.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face,
as a man speaketh unto his friend.
================================================
 
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CherubRam

New member
JESUS SAID THAT GOD THE FATHER IS ONE .

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

JESUS probably knew that they would start this Trinity Gobbledegook later.

THE QUESTION IS , WHICH GOD WAS JESUS REFERRING TO.

The Answer is that JESUS came to REVEAL THE FATHER TO US.

And sins NO MAN HAS SEEN THE FATHER THEN WHO DID MOSES SEE ON THE MOUNT.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face,
as a man speaketh unto his friend.
================================================
Galatians 3:20 is a very good verse.

Galatians 3:20
20 Now a mediator is not alone, but God is only.

Romans 3:30
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
 

OCTOBER23

New member
chuckcloninger,

Very profound analysis of the Old and New Testament.

You will probably make a good Christian in about a 1000 years.
 

OCTOBER23

New member
ELIA and BEN MASADA,

Thank you for your comments but you have been Worshipping JESUS all along.

The LORD God of the Hebrews made a Covenant with them to be their God

and Obey Him and they agreed to that Covenant.

But they kept turning away to Idols instead of their ONE and Only LORD.

That is why HE said those words to them for HE is a Jealous God.

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god:

for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink from the same spiritual drink:

for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:

and that Rock was Christ.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Acts 2:34 For David saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord,

Sit thou on my right hand,

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,

that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
 
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keypurr

Well-known member
How then do you understand the seven Spirits of Elohim if indeed you believe the Revelation that Yeshua was given and has given to us? Or do you just ignore the book of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua and simply stop counting at three while claiming that you cannot count? You clearly do not believe the Revelation he has given or you would come up with a better name that means "seven-one", or maybe, "eight-one".

If "God" always means "God" to you then perhaps you need to invest in some schooling and go learn how to count up to seven or eight. Claiming it is "God's sovereign will" that you cannot count past three is not going to get you off the hook, (O ye wily Calvinites). :chuckle:

Revelation 1:1 KJV
1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 4:5 KJV
5. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Excellent post friend
 

keypurr

Well-known member
ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT (AENT)

YOCHANAN (JOHN)17:20-23

20. And it is not only for the sake of these I plead, but also for the sake of those who will believe in me by their word.

21. That all of them may be One; as You my Father are in me and I in You, that they also be One in Us, that the world my believe that You sent me.

22. And the glory that You have given to me I have given to them that they may be One as we are One.

23. I in them and You in me, that they may be perfected into One and that the world may know that You have sent me, and that You have loved them as also You have loved me.

I suggest that a lot can be learned by reading and rereading these verses.
 

Charity

New member
Acts 2:34 For David saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord,

Sit thou on my right hand,

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,

that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

For God dose away with the first body to make way for the second, so he may finish his work...that jesus would be the first of the dead to rise, and his father david was to be the first soul to rise. that he was promised his soul shall return, an hiss new temple, a new Name.
That jesus said, I know my fathers will... because I am he....this is the historical jewish/celtic hope, that David would rise again, an the whole of isreal would look for him, an jesus was destroyed between the lines.
That... John the Baptist was beheaded...he was asked, are you the elijah, the new temple of the old soul.
That the soul of the queen of the south Shall rise up and condemn the men of the earth...thousands of years after her Body perished..in a new identity, for the body perished an went back t dust...the men of Ninehveh will return...

this is the hidden the truth that the ears Have been sealed too... was once the christian hope an belief..until christians were conquered an their children ret-rained under moses laws...The House of David was much more preferred Than the house Moses whom..islamic jews..with the promise from their migrated Father Abraham..that his seed would rise up an have Jerusleum, an a mission to site on the throne before another of King Davids celtic jews did.
 

Elia

Well-known member
Here is two witnesses.
Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’?

Bs"d

No, that is not written. The word there used is "elohiem", and that can mean "leader", "judge", "mighty man", and yes, it is also used for God, but many times it is used for humans.

So Psalm 82 does not say they are gods, it says they are "mighty men".


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!
.

Joshua 24:14-15
 

Elia

Well-known member
ELIA and BEN MASADA,

Thank you for your comments but you have been Worshipping JESUS all along.

Bs"d

Read HERE why Y-H-W-H God is not your man-god.




"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".

Micah 4:5
 

Elia

Well-known member
Because of the definition of a trinity. As you might have noticed, that sentence goes 'I and my Father are one.' They have answered before you asked.

Bs"d

Christianity has two gods; a "God the Father", and a "god the son".

How do they solve this polytheism? Simple: they say: "Two = one".


Brilliant in its simplicity!

But I stick to the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is ONE.

And not three, not triune, not three in one, but ONE!


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!
.

Joshua 24:14-15
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Bs"d

Christianity has two gods; a "God the Father", and a "god the son".

How do they solve this polytheism? Simple: they say: "Two = one".


Brilliant in its simplicity!

But I stick to the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is ONE.

And not three, not triune, not three in one, but ONE!


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!
.

Joshua 24:14-15

You stick to what you want. We'll worship the God in the Bible.

You should go write some stuff down on fancy paper with a fountain pen and then hide it in mason jars and bury it in your back yard. If your lucky, maybe one day a few thousand years from now an archaeologist will find it and the shear age of it will cause someone to care about what your own personal made up religion taught.
 
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CherubRam

New member
Bs"d

No, that is not written. The word there used is "elohiem", and that can mean "leader", "judge", "mighty man", and yes, it is also used for God, but many times it is used for humans.

So Psalm 82 does not say they are gods, it says they are "mighty men".


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!
.

Joshua 24:14-15
IL of EL always means God or gods. The word Elohim is of Aramaic origin and should be translated as such, not by modern Hebrew.
(Elohim / Elohiym) means: (God / gods) of the (living / many / ones / beings.)
 

KingdomRose

New member
THERE ARE TWO GODS

-John 1:1 says there are 2 Gods.

- I am getting tired of you guys not reading your bible.

- First you say that there are 3 Gods in the Trinity

and it shows plainly that the so-called Third person

is the MIND of Christ as it states in the Bible.

Jesus has a Throne and the Father has a Throne
but none for the Comforter

The Comforter seems to be GREATER than the Father and Son
because you will not be forgiven if you blaspheme it.

The Comforter is a Combination of the Father's spirit and
the Son's spirit and therefore, if you Blaspheme it ,
you are Blaspheming both of them.

-----------------------------------------------------------

- Then the Jewish guys say that the LORD GOD is One

and have NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.

-Jesus said that HE WAS THE LORD GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

which the Bible backs up with scriptures in Hebrews 9 as the

Testator who changed things by dying.

-Jesus said that he came to Reveal God the Father to them.

-Jesus Prayed to the Father, the One True God in Heaven
while the other God, JESUS was on the Earth.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore, it is obvious that there are only 2 Gods.

Where did Jesus say that he was the God of the Old Testament? He must've forgotten his scriptures, because God, YHWH (Jehovah) was speaking TO HIM in the 110th Psalm. How do you figure that?

Then in Isaiah 61:1 God ANOINTED HIM & SENT HIM. Would he anoint himself and send himself? (See where he applied this scripture to himself at Luke 4: 17-21.)

After you think about this, rethink John 1:1. There are two "gods" mentioned, but they are not both God Almighty. In Greek, the first "god" mentioned there has the article ho, or, "the." That is how the Greeks wrote the only true God.

The second "god" does not have the article. Therefore, that particular god was said to be, NOT ho theos, "the" god, but to differentiate him from "the" god....he was said to be what the Greek-speaking people would recognize as "a powerful, important person."

So there is ONE all-mighty God mentioned at John 1:1.
 

KingdomRose

New member
IL of EL always means God or gods. The word Elohim is of Aramaic origin and should be translated as such, not by modern Hebrew.
(Elohim / Elohiym) means: (God / gods) of the (living / many / ones / beings.)

Elohim does not always mean multiple gods. The god of the Philistines, Dagon, was referred to as "elohim," and yet Dagon was not a trinity.
 
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