God's Truth
New member
Jesus wasn't dead in the flesh. Jesus was dead to sin. Jesus was dead to sinning with the flesh!
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Jesus wasn't dead in the flesh. Jesus was dead to sin. Jesus was dead to sinning with the flesh!
marhig
Well-known member
I'm not a rejector of Christ at all, I just reject what you teach you're full of death as darkness, I don't believe that the death of Jesus saves us, i believe that we are saved by the life of Christ, by the word of God through the gospel, by the grace of God through faith. God is love, and what they did to Jesus was done under the power of darkness, God isn't the power of darkness but he is full of light, and there is no darkness in him at all!
You only believe in the cross and reject his life, and never speak of the teachings of Christ, you just constantly repeat over and over the death of Jesus and that's all you can see, death and you see no life! You are in the power of darkness just like those who killed Jesus!
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus' finished and competed work was him dying in the cross to save us!
Look at this, our Lord Jesus speaking
Luke 22
Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
Matthew 23
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,*thou*that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under*her*wings, and ye would not!
John 8
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God
And further down the chapter
Ye are of*your*father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
John 7
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Then came Peter in Acts 2
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Then came Stephen in Acts 6
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
And Peter again in Acts 3
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, WHEN HE WAS DETERMINED TO LET HIM GO.
BUT YOU DENIED THE HOLY ONE AND THE JUST, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; AND KILLED THE PRINCE OF LIFE, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses
And here's Paul in 1 Corinthians 2
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known*it, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GLORY.
And Paul again in 1 Thessalonians 2
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men:
And Revelation 11
And their dead bodies*shall lie*in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called SODOM AND EGYPT WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.
Jesus said that the prince of this world cometh and he has nothing in him. God is not the prince of this world, God is not the power of darkness, and God is not spiritually Sodom or Egypt. God is light, love and life and in him there is no darkness or death or hated or envy, which those who crucified Jesus were full of!
Christ Jesus fulfilled all prophesies and overcame Satan, and I know that he had to endure all that we set before him, but we are not saved by his death, we are saved by his life, through him, through his blood, by the grace of God through faith!
I don't believe as you do, call me what you will, but you're not my judge! Thankfully!
marhig
Well-known member
Please show me where I said that Jesus was dead in the flesh?
Rosenritter
New member
An unbeliever can do one thing to be saved: they can believe..
Luke 8:11-12 KJV
(11) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
(12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
This is also called obeying the gospel.
Romans 10:16-17 KJV
(16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
(17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
God's Truth
New member
Stop trying to get out of what you said. You speak falseness. Don't be so stubborn. You said Jesus was dead. PERIOD. You said Jesus was dead BEFORE DYING ON THE CROSS! You said Jesus was dead to the flesh. NO HE WAS NOT. Jesus was alive, even in the flesh. Jesus did good in his flesh.
Rosenritter
New member
GT, you're wrong, please stop arguing. "Dead in the flesh" is not the same as "dead to the flesh" and regardless if you were trying to understand someone's meaning this wouldn't be difficult for you to understand at all. If you are her sister in Christ then please try not to make a dramatic fight over a single word. If you insist on this being a fight then I declare that that you've lost.
That's all, thanks. You can go ahead with your typical "I don't care what you think of me stop attacking me spiel" now. Ironically your protestations demonstrate that you do care what people think. And by the way, the bit about "you didn't go to me privately" from before? I have gone to you privately before and you ignored me. I still have the messages saved from last year.
GT doesn't like going to other sites even though they may show exactly how she's wrong.
marhig
Well-known member
Hi GT, I'm not sure what to say, but I think that you are misunderstanding me. I'll try and explain again what I mean but I don't think I can explain any clearer than below.
I'm not trying to get out of what I have said, I've never said that our Lord Jesus was dead in the flesh, if I have then do please show me, because that is a mistake and he was never dead in the flesh. But yes I did say that Jesus was dead to the flesh, and he was, and those who belong to him should be being put to death to the flesh by the Holy Spirit through Christ too.
He was dead to sin which is of the flesh, he was dead to lust, which is of the flesh, he was dead to all the works of the flesh and he was dead to the this world, which the flesh lusts after. And he was dead to the prince of this world, Satan, who had nothing in him.
So he was dead, because he never let it all in, he was born of God from the womb and he strong in Spirit as a child and he never sinned. He never let Satan in so he was dead to him. God filled his heart to the brim leaving no room for anything else, he completely denied even his own will, so he was dead to it all, yet alive in God. So full of the life and the love of God, that doing the will of the father that sent him, and sharing his love and word hoping to heal and save as many as would believe in him, is all that Jesus thought about. Always putting God first and himself last, every minute of every day, he loved to please God. And the father was well pleased in his beloved son who did all that was commanded of him, he was always about his father's business
And we are to listen to Jesus, do as he commanded and live by the will of God and be ready to lay down our lives for others and love one another, be always ready to help and speak and glorify God, putting him first and ourselves last, and truly follow Christ Jesus from our hearts not just with our mouths.
Here's some the things that Jesus was dead to
Galatians 5
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
And here are some of what he was alive in. Being full of the spirit.
Again Galatians 5
Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance
I hope you see what I mean now. This is what I mean by he was dead before he went to the cross, dead to the ways of the flesh, so they could only put the body of Jesus to death, because death never entered into his heart, and he had nothing of this world or Satan in him, he was dead to it all.
They couldn't touch his life or his heart. They belonged to God
Thanks Mary.
Last edited:
Can you please tell me how that Jesus dying on the cross has saved you how it saved Peter, Paul and any of his disciples or apostle after.
Why did they have to carry on his works, how they carried on with the word of God how they healed the sick. Why they didn't say we don't have to suffer, Jesus did it for me, why Paul died daily. If you can answer these questions with the truth and back then up I will believe you but if you cannot (and God will hear what you have to say) will you then except what will be given me to say to you.
God's Truth
New member
You are silly and I think you might be EvilEye with another member name.
None of your accusations are truth.
By the way, stop merely making accusations as a way to debate.
All you do for your form of debate is to attack me personally.
Anyone who can see, they can see what you are and what you are doing.
Anyone who can't see, they can figure it out if they really want to.
God's Truth
New member
You need to learn how to defend your beliefs yourself.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus wasn't dead before he died.
Jesus was alive and is still alive, no matter what your stubbornness says.
God's Truth
New member
Those who helped lay the foundation, you are not one of them.
lifeisgood
New member
I love when some like to split atoms.
lifeisgood
New member
Another rejecter of Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.
Rosenritter
New member
That "split of the atom" has the explosive effect of bringing the possibility of salvation to the entire world. The unbeliever can do something, they can choose to believe.
Mark 9:23-24 KJV
(23) Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
(24) And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
popsthebuilder
New member
Now now; we can't have people knowing that believing equals living and doing in a way that reflects said belief.
You can't just go around fixing a 2000 year old deception. Who do you think you are?
....peace
popsthebuilder
New member
Hebrews: 10. 19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21. And having an high priest over the house of God; 22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Some seem confused as to what is referenced by the veil.
Some also seem confused about works.
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Some seem confused as to what is referenced by the veil.
Some also seem confused about works.
popsthebuilder
New member
1 Samuel: 12. 20. And Samuel said unto the people, Fear not: ye have done all this wickedness: yet turn not aside from following the LORD, but serve the LORD with all your heart; 21. And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after vain things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are vain. 22. For the LORD will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the LORD to make you his people. 23. Moreover as for me, God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you: but I will teach you the good and the right way: 24. Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you. 25. But if ye shall still do wickedly, ye shall be consumed, both ye and your king.
Good works are a product of effectual faith for all, not just those vainly proclaiming their own salvation to be secure.
Good works are a product of effectual faith for all, not just those vainly proclaiming their own salvation to be secure.
Rosenritter
New member
Luke 3:7-9 KJV
(7) Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
(9) And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Maybe there's disagreement about this point because of a different misunderstanding. If one thinks of "belief" as a binary off-on switch it's going to affect your thinking one way, but perhaps it's more fuzzy than that. Like the "I believe, help mine unbelief" maybe fledgling faith and belief needs action for it to be able to blossom instead of wither. Seedling belief might perish if not exercised, like the miscast seed from the parable of the sower.
So if one can be "believing" and "unbelieving" at the same time (in degrees or aspects) it is our actions that we use to decide for us what we actually become. Thus they would be both intertwined, and if we attempt to separate them from each other we'll have inevitable objections because our model was flawed.
@popsthebuilder, @lifeisgood, neither of you are saying that true belief produces bad fruit, or that one can demand eternal life from God because of achievement, correct? There must be a synthesis here that we can agree upon.