Veritas veritate
New member
No, not stupid. No, not refusing to read. Yes, actually tired and literally sick. But aside from that, I was actually losing track of your point.
I am sorry to hear that, I will be praying for your health.
That's the part that doesn't make sense. Salvation is a thing not yet received, which is why we are given the Holy Spirit in earnest until that time. If one rejects that Holy Spirit, knowing full well what it means and entails, how is there going back?
That is exactly my point. There is no way that one can truly come into the full knowledge of Jesus Christ and then completely turn away from him. They can be seduced by the world, enticed by sin, alienated from God in their own minds, but there is nothing that anyone can do to remove the sealing of the Holy Spirit. We are bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ and He will redeem that which he paid for.
Salvation isn't actually received until it is given, at the resurrection and atonement. We speak of it in the present tense because it is as good as its guarantor.
Here is an honest question to think upon. When was deliverance (salvation) given? It was given to all when Jesus Christ finished his work (when he placed his own blood on the mercy seat in heaven). When was preservation (salvation) given? It was given when we, through faith, accepted and acknowledged the truth of our deliverance (salvation) having been given to us.
The deliverance (salvation) cannot and will not change for anyone who has ever lived: however, the preservation (salvation), though it cannot be lost, can be, and is enhanced or reduced according to the fruits we produce.
but it goes without saying that we can break our part of the covenant.
Can you remove the blood of Christ from the mercy seat in heaven? Just as the covenant of Abraham was predicated on the faithfulness of God alone, so too is the salvation that we have been given in Christ predicated on the work of Christ alone. Remember, the New Covenant was based on his blood, not our obedience. Man was never given the responsibility of salvation. The only thing our obedience predicates is the amount of the inheritance we get when we enter New Jerusalem.
It still doesn't look to me as if it is saying it is possible to turn back after that point. It speaks of the alternative being burning... I had looked at Message in one of those 18. I dislike it also, but for sake of discussion...
Hebrews 6:4-9 MSG
(4) Once people have seen the light, gotten a taste of heaven and been part of the work of the Holy Spirit,
(5) once they've personally experienced the sheer goodness of God's Word and the powers breaking in on us--
(6) if then they turn their backs on it, washing their hands of the whole thing, well, they can't start over as if nothing happened. That's impossible. Why, they've re-crucified Jesus! They've repudiated him in public!
(7) Parched ground that soaks up the rain and then produces an abundance of carrots and corn for its gardener gets God's "Well done!"
(8) But if it produces weeds and thistles, it's more likely to get cussed out. Fields like that are burned, not harvested.
(9) I'm sure that won't happen to you, friends. I have better things in mind for you--salvation things!
There are a couple of things that I will point out here that might make more sense out of what I am saying. Look at verse seven: "parched ground" is referring to those who have turned away. Notice how there are two groups within the "parched ground." One produces herbs (carrots and corn in the Message), and one produces thistles. The ones that produce herbs are those who were true believers and have a restored relationship. The second are those who have never had a relationship, but seem to have a form of the truth: these are those whom the enemy has planted among the wheat. These are those who attempt to choke out and turn away true believers, and they will be burned.