The Trinity

The Trinity

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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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I'm not sure I know what you're looking for, so I'll focus on possible confusing terms / references:

Romans 4:4 ...
"to him who works" (to him who attempts to earn a reward by creating obligation) and
"to him who does not work" (to him who does what he does not in an attempt to earn reward) and
"him who justifies the ungodly" (Jesus)

Ephesians 2:8
"by grace you have been saved ..." (grace is the gift of God)
"not of works" (grace is given, by definition, not demanded by obligation)

2 Cor 12:9
God's power is made manifest in weakness. When someone sees Saul turn about and become Paul,they marvel. When we suffer infirmity we can relate to pain and suffering, and thus can relate to the people we need to reach. "My grace is sufficient for you ...." in that the grace of forgiveness and the promise of eternal life makes a small physical suffering in the here and now irrelevant.



Evil.Eye.<(I)> said:
I'm not making a snap judgment to your stance yet... I know this seems out of place... but... what do Romans 4:4f and Ephesians 2:8f ... and 2 Cor. 12:9 mean to you?

This is not a trick question... it is simply to assist in my understanding of your stance.
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God's Truth

God's Truth

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JudgeRightly said:
Please don't evade my question, GT.

Are Christians under the Covenant of Law (Genesis 17)? or are they under the Covenant of Grace (Genesis 15)?
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What a joke. I don't evade. You were proven with scripture that you are a teacher of falseness.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


You want to keep saying Jesus came with law? Tell us if that is what you want to keep doing, or just repent.

Stubborn people can't repent.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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No, man is not made in the image of angels. Man is made in the image of God. Angels are also made in the image of God. Animals (dog, cat, bird) are not made in the image of God.

Men (and angels) sin when they depart from that image. Animals do not sin because they were never made after that image to begin with. God, angels, and men are on a different spiritual level than the beast and bird.

"Elohim" is used for the Lord of Hosts. Do you know what Hosts means? It's "Hosts" as in "hosts of angels." Of course it has plural application. It doesn't mean that God himself is a plural, but when God does something, he may do so by way of an angel (or angels). Specific examples can be found if you look for them. Who sent the plague on David when he sinned? God, or Satan? Or did God do so by way of allowing Satan to work?

JudgeRightly said:
"Let us make man in Our Image"

So man was made in the image of angels too?

No. This is the origin of the "royal we."

Or do you think that Moses, being very well educated, made a grammatical mistake in the very first verse of the Bible?

"In the beginning, Gods (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

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"Elohim" (Strong's 430) is the plural form of "God."

"Elowahh" (Strong's 433) is the singular.

"El" (Strong's 410) is also singular.
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JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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Rosenritter said:
No, man is not made in the image of angels. Man is made in the image of God. Angels are also made in the image of God. Animals (dog, cat, bird) are not made in the image of God.

Men (and angels) sin when they depart from that image. Animals do not sin because they were never made after that image to begin with. God, angels, and men are on a different spiritual level than the beast and bird.

"Elohim" is used for the Lord of Hosts. Do you know what Hosts means? It's "Hosts" as in "hosts of angels." Of course it has plural application. It doesn't mean that God himself is a plural, but when God does something, he may do so by way of an angel (or angels). Specific examples can be found if you look for them. Who sent the plague on David when he sinned? God, or Satan? Or did God do so by way of allowing Satan to work?
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You said God was speaking to His angels when He said "Let Us create man in Our image." That's why I asked. Just wanted to clarify.

Rosenritter said:
In Genesis he is speaking to his angels. By the time you get to Day Six the angels are already part of the equation (and would also be creations in the image of God.) We are told elsewhere that the angels shouted for joy to see the world made. God does talk to his angels - we even have passages where he lets them decide what actions he will take to deal with problems on earth. If US President says "Let's pass this executive order into law" he is speaking to more than himself, even if he is the only person involved in the action. If US President says "Let's invade Canada" he makes the decision, but orders multiple soldiers into action. In both cases he speaks for the sake of his audience, but the plural is because he represents (leads) many.

In those passages in John there is nothing that makes God multiple people or personalities. Jesus does speak in analogies and symbolism. He speaks of God as "the Father" in heaven and as "God as his Father" when we also know that he is God and as God has no actual father. He calls himself "the bread of life" and says that to live we must eat his flesh and drink his blood.
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God's Truth

God's Truth

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Rosenritter said:
In Genesis he is speaking to his angels. By the time you get to Day Six the angels are already part of the equation (and would also be creations in the image of God.) We are told elsewhere that the angels shouted for joy to see the world made. God does talk to his angels - we even have passages where he lets them decide what actions he will take to deal with problems on earth. If US President says "Let's pass this executive order into law" he is speaking to more than himself, even if he is the only person involved in the action. If US President says "Let's invade Canada" he makes the decision, but orders multiple soldiers into action. In both cases he speaks for the sake of his audience, but the plural is because he represents (leads) many.

In those passages in John there is nothing that makes God multiple people or personalities. Jesus does speak in analogies and symbolism. He speaks of God as "the Father" in heaven and as "God as his Father" when we also know that he is God and as God has no actual father. He calls himself "the bread of life" and says that to live we must eat his flesh and drink his blood.

1) Does Jesus come out of God? yes, as God born into flesh (with limitations on experience and power) that would be accurate
2) Does Jesus come forth out of the Father? As Jesus uses "the Father" to represent God in heaven, and as Jesus is the Logos (the explanation in front of us) of whom God is, as the visible image of God, then also yes. If you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father.
3) Did Jesus go back to the Father? Yes, he did. He ascended to heaven, and as such there was no more Son of God on earth. As "Son of God" means "God in the flesh" that title ceases to be applicable when God is no longer in the flesh among us.

Are Jesus and the Father the same? It depends on what you mean by "same." If you mean "the same person in character and personality" then I would say yes. The different designations are used for our relation to God. "The Father" is always "in heaven", "the Son of God" walked the earth with us, "the Holy Spirit" is Spirit (and not manifested in flesh) by definition, but works with us on earth invisibly. At least that seems to be the pattern. If you know of exceptions I would like to see them.
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Just listen to yourself. You prove you are a modalist. You said Jesus ceased from being the Son.

Modalists believe in three, but they believe the three exist consecutively.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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God's Truth said:
You have no truth you have a dictionary with words from another language that you don't need.
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That language is the language the scriptures were originally written in. GT, do you think knowing the original intent of a word or phrase in the Bible is unimportant?
 
JudgeRightly

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God's Truth said:
What a joke. I don't evade. You were proven with scripture that you are a teacher of falseness.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


You want to keep saying Jesus came with law? Tell us if that is what you want to keep doing, or just repent.

Stubborn people can't repent.
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My question is not "who gave the law?". My question is, "Are Christians under the law or under grace?"

Please answer the question I ask, and not the one I'm not asking.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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Rosenritter said:
"Elohim" is used for the Lord of Hosts. Do you know what Hosts means? It's "Hosts" as in "hosts of angels." Of course it has plural application. It doesn't mean that God himself is a plural, but when God does something, he may do so by way of an angel (or angels). Specific examples can be found if you look for them. Who sent the plague on David when he sinned? God, or Satan? Or did God do so by way of allowing Satan to work?
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Let's walk before we run here, Rosenritter.

First of all, in Genesis 1:1, Who is "Elohim"?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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JudgeRightly said:
Are Christians under Law or under Grace?

A) Law
B) Grace
C) I don't know
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Why would you ask that when I tell you Christians are under Jesus?

Examine yourself.

Tell me if Christians have to obey Jesus' teachings, teachings he taught while he walked the earth.

Explain why you would ask me if Christians are under the old law.
 
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