The Trinity

[God's Truth]

That's called projection.

No, because you just proved it again by saying it is projection.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Who alone knows the hearts of men? Why won't you answer?

Luke 7:9
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

mar·vel
[ˈmärvəl]

VERB
marveled (past tense) · marveled (past participle)
be filled with wonder or astonishment:
"she marveled at Jeffrey's composure" · [more]
synonyms: be amazed · be astonished · be surprised · be awed · stand in awe · wonder · stare · gape · goggle · not believe one's eyes/ears · be dumbfounded · be flabbergasted

 

[glorydaz]

That simply means he knew what was in man.

Right you are....since He created all things. :thumb:

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col. 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.​

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Right you are....since He created all things. :thumb:

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col. 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.​

That wont fly with Jesus' being astonished.

Luke 7:9
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Looks like Daddy wasn't through teaching His Son yet.

Or could be this is what was meant when it was written that he would have fainted had he not seen Father's work.

 

[God's Truth]

Luke 7:9
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

mar·vel
[ˈmärvəl]

VERB
marveled (past tense) · marveled (past participle)
be filled with wonder or astonishment:
"she marveled at Jeffrey's composure" · [more]
synonyms: be amazed · be astonished · be surprised · be awed · stand in awe · wonder · stare · gape · goggle · not believe one's eyes/ears · be dumbfounded · be flabbergasted

What is your point?

 

[God's Truth]

That wont fly with Jesus' being astonished.

Luke 7:9
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Looks like Daddy wasn't through teaching His Son yet.

Or could be this is what was meant when it was written that he would have fainted had he not seen Father's work.

So you are taking the word marveled to mean he was taught something he didn't know was going to happen?

What do you mean he would have fainted had he not seen Father's work?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

So you are taking the word marveled to mean he was taught something he didn't know was going to happen?

What do you mean he would have fainted had he not seen Father's work?

King James Bible
I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

John 5:39-47King James Version (KJV)
39*Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Looks like that Psalm should be in red letters too.

 

[Rosenritter]

Wasn't talking about me.

I would personally be much more worried about not having sorrow or remorse, rather than being sorrowed unto repentance.

There's some interesting things said about conscience. I think I agree here, there's a lot more danger in having no conscience (or a seared conscience that isn't capable of feeling guilt) than a guilty conscience. A guilty conscience is there for a reason, to bring us to redemption.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV
(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Titus 1:15-16 KJV
(15) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
(16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Those are examples of what it says of those with a defiled or seared conscience that doesn't register guilt when it should. Now see what it says about a guilty conscience, of what can be done from there:

Hebrews 9:13-14 KJV
(13) For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:22 KJV
(22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

A guilty conscience prods us to our redeemer. If we heed that conscience we may find him. Proceed through life with no conscience and what do you think will happen?

 

[Rosenritter]

Because He chose not to know....considering He told the disciples He was to speak whatever the Father had told Him. Man was not to know the exact time, so Jesus, in His humanity, could not know, either.

I think that Jesus did not technically have full omniscience while on earth, because for the reason you said, he chose not to know. It also wouldn't be very compatible with his human frame. He did exercise elements of omniscience at times, but as for knowing everything all at once all the time? Maybe not that.

Not saying that the "chose not to know" isn't a valid answer, but another possible answer is that Jesus did not know the day or the hour and "only the Father knows" because the day and hour isn't set, so how could it be known by Jesus at that time?

 

[Rosenritter]

If He didn't know something then He wasn't omniscient in the flesh as He walked the earth.

Omniscient means all knowing.

Can you show me any scripture that says that God is omniscient? Revelation 19:6 says omnipotent (not omniscient) and you might find a passage or two that says that God knows all things, or that only God can know the heart of a man, but the word "omniscient" isn't actually from scripture.

Even if we grant that God knows all things, it would need to be limited by "knowing all things that are knowable." For example, can God know how to make a triangle with five sides? No, he cannot. If we truly have free will, can God know the decision that someone will make before they have even been born? Some people would say yes, but by definition I would say that cannot be known.

But for practical purposes, Jesus had access to the omniscience of God as required. He saw Philip under the fig tree, when he asked who touched him in the crowd, he turned and spoke to the woman, when he spoke to the Samaritan woman and asked her about her husband, he was able to correct her answer better than she had been willing to give. We could make guesses how this was done, but Jesus had all the benefits of knowing all things even if we allow that he may not have accessed all of it at the same time.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

QUOTE]

Agreed with everything you said here.

But I would have emboldened this....

who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,

Just sayin'.

Peace, and love in Christ.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Can you show me any scripture that says that God is omniscient? Revelation 19:6 says omnipotent (not omniscient) and you might find a passage or two that says that God knows all things, or that only God can know the heart of a man, but the word "omniscient" isn't actually from scripture.

Even if we grant that God knows all things, it would need to be limited by "knowing all things that are knowable." For example, can God know how to make a triangle with five sides? No, he cannot. If we truly have free will, can God know the decision that someone will make before they have even been born? Some people would say yes, but by definition I would say that cannot be known.

But for practical purposes, Jesus had access to the omniscience of God as required. He saw Philip under the fig tree, when he asked who touched him in the crowd, he turned and spoke to the woman, when he spoke to the Samaritan woman and asked her about her husband, he was able to correct her answer better than she had been willing to give. Would could make guesses how this was done, but Jesus had all the benefits of knowing all things even if we allow that he may not have accessed all of it at the same time.

Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure.

Do you know what that entails?

I don't.

 

[Rosenritter]

Agreed with everything you said here.

But I would have emboldened this....

who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,

Just sayin'.

Peace, and love in Christ.

Because of the nature and complexity of God who is bigger than any one of us and fills so much of what we need, it is natural that he is referred to in many different ways. If you were standing beside me, you'd see someone just like yourself in many ways. But if you were the size of a hamster, my left hand and my right hand would seem like different entities to you. There are solid scriptures that allow for no other sensible interpretation than Jesus being our very God. All other passages resolve under these fixed points.

Sometimes figures of speech are just that, figures of speech. But when Jesus says clearly "I AM" and John says "the Word was God" and when Jesus calls himself by every name that is reserved as the unique identification for the LORD of the Old Testament, these are our fixed points and cannot be dismissed. That which can be resolved in multiple ways must surrender to that which can be resolved in only one way.

 

[Rosenritter]

Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure.

Do you know what that entails?

I don't.

I know what it means to be given the Holy Spirit without measure. It means he had the full power of God Almighty at his disposal at any time and for any reason and more than that. Only God has the Holy Spirit without measure, because God is that Holy Spirit.

There are many spirits, but there is one Spirit that created those spirits. God is a spirit, it is written. He is the father of spirits, it is also written. Of all the spirits, there is One spirit that is the Creator. That Spirit is He whom we call Holy.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Only God has the Holy Spirit without measure, because God is that Holy Spirit.

Made up.

 

[God's Truth]

King James Bible
I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

John 5:39-47King James Version (KJV)
39*Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Looks like that Psalm should be in red letters too.

I just don't understand what you are saying.

 

[glorydaz]

If one claims there own perfection it is a sure sign of their corruption.

I never said we couldn't be made perfect by the work of Christ.

I simply said; as per Job, and other scripture; one claimingnto be wise is a fool and one claiming perfection is corrupt.

Then you shouldn't have a problem quoting where that is said. :chew:

Simple; unlike your 9 part god.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.​

I do not deny that those in Christ are made perfect.

No.

You, being a faither, should grasp that we aren't to boast. Our boasting is in the Lord and GOD.

Which is exactly what she meant, and you know it. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". You admit you know those IN CHRIST are counted perfect. It isn't "boasting" unless you say you are that way on your own dime.

Paul calls himself a fool and the cheafest of sinners.

A fool for Christ does not mean Paul is calling himself a fool. He is being facetious, as you can tell if you read the context. Nor would he say that since he knows scripture, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

1 Cor. 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.​

See, he's making a point that others judge him as a fool for Christ. It's irony. Nor was Paul saying he was the worst sinner, as you seem to be implying.

1 Cor. 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.​

Jesus spoke only what the Father gave Him to speak, and specifically told people not to mention him, who he was, or the miraculous works he did by the will of GOD.

Jesus did that for a specific reason. You might spend time considering why that was instead of trying to stir up more contention with GT.

Why would one loudly proclaim their salvation to man, but for show; as if GOD doesn't know, or as if it is a help to the afflicted to be condemned by those who call themselves Christ. Christ is merciful and was utterly humble, a help, the way, a guidance, and not burdensome.

Golly, they might be trying to spread the good news. :think:

 

[glorydaz]

That wont fly with Jesus' being astonished.

Luke 7:9
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Looks like Daddy wasn't through teaching His Son yet.

Or could be this is what was meant when it was written that he would have fainted had he not seen Father's work.

So, you're going to ignore two very important verses about Jesus being the Creator because He "marveled" at someone's level of faith? Marvelled can also be admiration, remember. It was a teaching moment. You notice he had a crowd in tow, and this was a Roman soldier showing more faith than the Jews could muster up. I can see the smile on Jesus face as He said it. In fact it reminds me of this....

John 1:47-49
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.​

Being fully human, Jesus had a sense of humor, and being fully God, He knew things mere humans couldn't, and He could see things, mere humans couldn't. We should always bear that in mind when we read the Gospels. There are many such instances where we see His Divinity as well as His humanity.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

So, you're going to ignore two very important verses about Jesus being the Creator because He "marveled" at someone's level of faith? Marvelled can also be admiration, remember. It was a teaching moment. You notice he had a crowd in tow, and this was a Roman soldier showing more faith than the Jews could muster up. I can see the smile on Jesus face as He said it. In fact it reminds me of this....

John 1:47-49
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.​

Being fully human, Jesus had a sense of humor, and being fully God, He knew things mere humans couldn't, and He could see things, mere humans couldn't. We should always bear that in mind when we read the Gospels. There are many such instances where we see His Divinity as well as His humanity.

Nope, you're ignoring the scripture I posted.

Your agenda to make Jesus God nullifies his need to see God giving faith to His brothers.

King James Bible
I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.

Hebrews 2:10,11,12

10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.

12He says: “I will proclaim Your name to My brothers; I will sing Your praises in the congregation.”…

 

[glorydaz]

Nope, you're ignoring the scripture I posted.

Your agenda to make Jesus God nullifies his need to see God giving faith to His brothers.

Please give me the verse you're talking about. I may have missed your intent.

I really don't have any agenda....simply sharing what I see like everyone else.