The Trinity

[1Mind1Spirit]

Amen. Thank you 1Mind1Spirit. You made my day and blessed me greatly.

We are made holy by the precious blood of the Lamb. We are different than those who reject the Lord and don't love him.

You're welcome.

And yes there's a difference but these days I'm not comfortable harping on it.

 

[God's Truth]

You're welcome.

And yes there's a difference but these days I'm not comfortable harping on it.

I harp on the truth, it is beautiful music.

Ephesians 5:19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,

 

[glorydaz]

"Ye are the sons of the living God" is not used in the same sense as "the sons of God." Likewise "the Son of God' is not one of the "sons of God." If you were making a case that Jesus was merely "a follower of God" you might be able to make that argument consistently that these were interchangeable, but I don't think that you are.

CONTEXT....you refuse to take verses in context, but boy do you like to nitpick when it suits your personal doctrine.


God makes it clear He has not called angels "son"....Nor will He be to them a "Father".

Heb. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?​

They are all ministering spirits....not made in the image of God....God is not their Father.

Heb. 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?​

If you read the passage from Peter more precisely, it does not say that Jesus was preaching. It says that his death and quickening by the spirit preached onto those rebellious spirits. Not "bible-thumping soul saving preaching" but where preach is used in its fuller form of "proclaimed." And yes, I would count those as rebellious angels.

"Bible thumping?"

Then you would be wrong....AGAIN. First of all, it does not say "those rebellious spirits". It's wrong to twist scripture for your own purposes. :nono:

"He went and preached"....means "He was preaching." :doh:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;​

Those who were "sometime disobedient" would be those others from the line of Seth who had intermarried with the worldly daughters of Cain. These would include Noah's other siblings, aunts and uncles, etc. In fact, Methuselah is said to have died at the time of the flood....his name means "When he dies it shall come...or judgment will come." Thus God's long-suffering in that verse in Peter.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

Those people who died in the flood....just as all the OT believers, resided in the place of the dead until Christ was risen. These are the ones this verse is speaking of. Luke 16

You need to ditch this idea that every time you read the word "spirit" in the Bible it refers to angels. You keep going off on tangents.

Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigheth the spirits.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


​

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

CONTEXT....you refuse to take verses in context, but boy do you like to nitpick when it suits your personal doctrine.


God makes it clear He has not called angels "son"....Nor will He be to them a "Father".

Heb. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?​

They are all ministering spirits....not made in the image of God....God is not their Father.

Heb. 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?​

"Bible thumping?"

Then you would be wrong....AGAIN. First of all, it does not say "those rebellious spirits". It's wrong to twist scripture for your own purposes. :nono:

"He went and preached"....means "He was preaching." :doh:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;​

Those who were "sometime disobedient" would be those others from the line of Seth who had intermarried with the worldly daughters of Cain. These would include Noah's other siblings, aunts and uncles, etc. In fact, Methuselah is said to have died at the time of the flood....his name means "When he dies it shall come...or judgment will come." Thus God's long-suffering in that verse in Peter.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

Those people who died in the flood....just as all the OT believers, resided in the place of the dead until Christ was risen. These are the ones this verse is speaking of. Luke 16

You need to ditch this idea that every time you read the word "spirit" in the Bible it refers to angels. You keep going off on tangents.

Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigheth the spirits.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


​

each: :Grizzly:

 

[popsthebuilder]

You said I lied about the saved are perfect and holy.

Here are the scriptures:


Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,


You want to apologize for saying I lied?

I never said that was what you were being deceitful about and you know it; actively and knowingly adding sin onto sin.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Thank you, but I don't think it will make it for POTD.

Read pops' posts and tell me if you can decipher.

Haven't you heard the blind can't see?

 

[marhig]

I mean this in this in a nice way, I think you have serious mental problems Something is definitely wrong with you.

I know exactly what he means!

For example, you call people workers of Satan, because they don't believe as you do, and take everything they say as a personal attack on yourself, yet at times, you teach things wrong yourself.

I've always wondered why you believe that Jesus goes to hell to preach to those who are dead, what do you mean by this? Thanks

 

[marhig]

Not if there was another way to accomplish the same goal. If you think about it I think you would also agree. What is the goal? To bring salvation to the entire world, right? If we assume that God is of like mind, that "if it be possible, let this cup be taken from me" but decided that it was necessary to be done, then I don't see how we can escape the conclusion that Christ's torment, death, and suffering on that cross was somehow necessary towards that goal. That at the very least this was calculated for maximum effect.

Would you be able to answer the previous question more directly please? "Do you understand the future as a fixed thing that God cannot change, or rather something that happens as influenced by its actors (including God?)" Thank you.

I've always said that Jesus had to bare whatsoever was set before him, he had to show love, forgiveness and mercy and overcome satan's evil with good, and in doing so, he overcame Satan and the world, my point is that the death on the cross doesn't save, we are saved through Christ, by hearing the word of God through the gospel, by the grace of God through faith.

And Jesus didn't save the whole world, as much as he would have loved to, he even said this

Matthew 23

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!

So all of Jerusalem were not saved, only those who believed in him and repented, and turned from sin. Then they were forgiven of their past sins, from then on they are to go sin no more.

So Jesus didn't save the whole world by dying the cross, he is saving those who believe on him and repent through the gospel, through faith, by the grace of God.

I believe that Gods word doesn't change, but God does change his mind. Why do you ask?

Isaiah 38

In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live. Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD, And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.

Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying, Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years. And I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria: and I will defend this city.

And this shall be a sign unto thee from the LORD, that the LORD will do this thing that he hath spoken; Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

 

[marhig]

Hebrews 2:14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

If "death" means "being death to the flesh" (as in being a good thing) then why does it say that the devil has the power of death? That doesn't add up. Besides this, the passage makes perfect sense when read in the literal sense already, so why seek another sense?

Do you understand that the word death in the Bible has different meanings?

 

[God's Truth]

I never said that was what you were being deceitful about and you know it; actively and knowingly adding sin onto sin.

I seriously think that you are not all there. You go against me for saying our spirits are conscious after the death of our bodies, and for my saying I am perfect, holy, and am saved now and in Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

I know exactly what he means!

I think you are dishonest. I don't believe you.

For example, you call people workers of Satan, because they don't believe as you do, and take everything they say as a personal attack on yourself, yet you are teaching things wrong yourself.

You keep speaking the same lie, for I have told you many times that I call people a worker of Satan because they speak untruths about me personally. Now stop saying the same lie. Remember how you hated it when pops and I got along?

I've always wondered why you believe that Jesus goes to hell to preach to those who are dead, what do you mean by this? Thanks

I now know what it is to be glad that you do not understand. I do not want to help you to understand. There is a reason that God keeps it from you. I trust God and know that it is right.

 

[marhig]

I think you are dishonest. I don't believe you.


You keep speaking the same lie, for I have told you many times that I call people a worker of Satan because they speak untruths about me personally. Now stop saying the same lie. Remember how you hated it when pops and I got along?


I now know what it is to be glad that you do not understand. I do not want to help you to understand. There is a reason that God keeps it from you. I trust God and know that it is right.

I would like you and pops to get along, why wouldn't i? Be careful how you twist things GT, that's not the truth about me, I didn't hate you both getting along at all. Thats all in your head because you go on the defensive with anyone who doesn't agree with you.

So preaching to the dead in hell, do you mean those who are naturally dead, and what scriptures are you referring to? I've been wondering, thanks.

 

[Rosenritter]

The scripture plainly says Jesus preached the gospel to them so that they can LIVE accordingly to the gospel while in their spirit.

1 Peter 4:5-6 KJV
(5) Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
(6) For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

There seems to be quite a few different opinions about this passage. For example, some say that "them that are dead" means those who are walking in sin, doomed to die, such as found in Ephesians 2:1-5 and Colossians 2:13, or even in the sense of "dead" as the meaning where the father says that the prodigal son was "dead."

Ephesians 2:1-5 KJV
(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
(4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved: )

From the context of 1 Peter 4:6, do you have anything to establish that it means that the "dead" means literally dead, and if so, that it means they were literally dead when that gospel was preached to them, rather than having died after that preaching?

Thanks.

 

[Rosenritter]

Surely you cannot be claiming that verse in Hebrews is talking about Jesus being the "father" of angels?:dizzy:

Hebrews 12:9 KJV
(9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

I am inclined to think that title "Father of spirits" would be applicable to the Creator of those spirits. Who created those spirits Glory? What does scripture tell us? John 1:3, Col 1:16?

 

[Rosenritter]

No amount of proclaiming would ever make the gospel apply to angels.

Where do you see anyone speaking about applying the gospel to angels?

 

[Rosenritter]

You are a slanderer, you are blinded by the devil and don't know what you do?

So stop saying I am lying.

People can be saved now, you go against me for saying that.

How is it you go against the Truth?

As for God's Truth for my screen name, all I wanted was God's Truth and all I want is God's Truth.

You failed the challenge. Twenty-four hours and you couldn't make it. *sigh* You're going to give yourself a heart attack one of these days.

 

[Rosenritter]

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

P.S.

Thanks GT for posting this scripture earlier.

... and? I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you able to put it into words?

 

[Rosenritter]

I asked him a while back if he was EvilEye. He never denied it.

GE, you've got a small problem when it comes to truth it seems.

After ignoring you for some time because of the sheer idiocy of the accusation, I eventually did tell you "I am not Evil Eye" and somewhat mocked you by asking if you wanted to ask if I was Lon or Ask Mr. Religion or anyone else now.

I thought you had answered with a post of your own. You explained that Evil Eye was known to have multiple accounts.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...oll-Question&p=5069909&viewfull=1#post5069909

How am I supposed to prove that if I am not Evil Eye, that I must therefore be Lon? That's an absurd assertion on your part. Regardless, why would we post against each other if we were the same person? Not everyone has as much time as you for these boards.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...oll-Question&p=5070246&viewfull=1#post5070246

That sounded so bizarre that I didn't take your accusation seriously. No, I am not Evil Eye: his writing style and thought process (and content) is completely different regardless. Do you want to ask if I am Lon or Ask Mr. Religion or anyone else, or are you satisfied with that?

It's hard for me to tell whether are lying or if your brain is really that deficient that it just makes up random things like that. Maybe some of both.

 

[Rosenritter]

CONTEXT....you refuse to take verses in context, but boy do you like to nitpick when it suits your personal doctrine.

God makes it clear He has not called angels "son"....Nor will He be to them a "Father".

Heb. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?​

They are all ministering spirits....not made in the image of God....God is not their Father.

Heb. 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?​

"Bible thumping?"

Then you would be wrong....AGAIN. First of all, it does not say "those rebellious spirits". It's wrong to twist scripture for your own purposes. :nono:

"He went and preached"....means "He was preaching." :doh:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;​

Those who were "sometime disobedient" would be those others from the line of Seth who had intermarried with the worldly daughters of Cain. These would include Noah's other siblings, aunts and uncles, etc. In fact, Methuselah is said to have died at the time of the flood....his name means "When he dies it shall come...or judgment will come." Thus God's long-suffering in that verse in Peter.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

Those people who died in the flood....just as all the OT believers, resided in the place of the dead until Christ was risen. These are the ones this verse is speaking of. Luke 16

You need to ditch this idea that every time you read the word "spirit" in the Bible it refers to angels. You keep going off on tangents.

Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigheth the spirits.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

​

Dear Glory, if the angels are not called sons of God then who are those sons of God that are called before God in the book of Job, and why is Satan among them? And who are those sons of God that were present when the foundations of the earth were laid? It seems that each time you try to preach you wreck it by starting off with a statement that's easily disproved.

 

[Rosenritter]

Do you understand that the word death in the Bible has different meanings?

I understand that death has a primary meaning of the cessation of life. I also understand that death can be used in metaphor, drawing on the image of the cessation of life, such as "dead in sins" or "dead to the world" or a "dead battery." And when reading scripture, the rule of biblical interpretation that I remember is that we are to consider first the primary meaning of each word within the passage, and to consider other meanings if the original meaning does not make normal sense, but never to place other meanings first when the primary meaning is natural to the verse.