Again, the LORD is one (of unity, not of singularity). Echad, not Yachid, not Bad.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Again, the LORD is one (of unity, not of singularity). Echad, not Yachid, not Bad.
If what you say is true, then why does Jesus, the Son, say that His Father knows something that He, the Son, does not? How is it possible that one person can simultaneously know something and not know something?
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. - Mark 13:32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark13:32&version=NKJV
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. - Matthew 24:36 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew24:36&version=NKJV
If what you say is true, then God contradicted himself, and we know that God cannot contradict himself. So...
Your position has been refuted. Give it up.
God's Truth
New member
What ever the Father says, Jesus says. What ever the Father does, Jesus does.
So how do you get that they are different?
God's Truth
New member
Again, the LORD is one (of unity, not of singularity). Echad, not Yachid, not Bad.
God was not playing with words when He said He is One and there was no one like Him and no one besides Him.
If there were three alike and besides each other making one, then He would have said so instead of saying no.
Rosenritter
New member
.... that might be a way of saying that the when hasn't yet been determined. As in when will that happen? God knows....
glorydaz
Well-known member
Distinct...not different.
Col. 1:12-13
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Lon
Well-known member
Problem with Omniscience if so. If that were the case, God could not know His own universe. Part the problem of compromising on any one orthodox point, is that it causes and more than not requires a compromise on other orthodox positions.
Be careful how far you are willing to go before you toss out all orthodox scriptural points altogether. -Lon
God's Truth
New member
lol distinct means different.
haaaaaaaaaa Whose kingdom?
the kingdom of Christ and God." Ephesians 5:5
Rosenritter
New member
Lon, I think I know where you are coming from, and it's a point where we aren't going to reconcile today. I suspect that you view everything that will happen in the sense that it is already happened in the immutable sense. God knows the future because it cannot change. It's a typical Calvinist view (and you do mention Calvinism in your signature.) God has perfect knowledge but ironically cannot change what will happen.
In contrast, I understand that God determines the future and that he might change (or delay) events depending on circumstance. When he allowed Abraham to bargain for the fate of Sodom, he wasn't playing a joke on him. When he told Nineveh he would destroy their city he meant it - but he also changed his mind because of their repentance. God has absolute power over what he determines, but cannot know the things which cannot be known.
Simply saying, there is no rule that God has to have preset every event that will happen on a timer. God may have other conditions upon which he will act, and as such, he would not be able to say the exact day or hour he would return. It hadn't been determined that precisely. We may not see eye to eye on this, but I don't think it can be casually discounted.
P.S. by definition, if God has given his creatures free will he cannot perfectly know what they will do, for the precise reason that "free" will is "free" because it is not under direct control. Thus the Omniscience that you mention is incompatible with free will. Maybe we can discuss that another time, but I don't think anyone is outside of Orthodoxy for believing in Free Will.
In contrast, I understand that God determines the future and that he might change (or delay) events depending on circumstance. When he allowed Abraham to bargain for the fate of Sodom, he wasn't playing a joke on him. When he told Nineveh he would destroy their city he meant it - but he also changed his mind because of their repentance. God has absolute power over what he determines, but cannot know the things which cannot be known.
Simply saying, there is no rule that God has to have preset every event that will happen on a timer. God may have other conditions upon which he will act, and as such, he would not be able to say the exact day or hour he would return. It hadn't been determined that precisely. We may not see eye to eye on this, but I don't think it can be casually discounted.
P.S. by definition, if God has given his creatures free will he cannot perfectly know what they will do, for the precise reason that "free" will is "free" because it is not under direct control. Thus the Omniscience that you mention is incompatible with free will. Maybe we can discuss that another time, but I don't think anyone is outside of Orthodoxy for believing in Free Will.
What do you not get about the three Persons speaking as one God, saying that there is none like Him, no one beside Him?
That still brings up the issue for GT that the Son is distinct from the Father, in that the Father will do something (choose when to return) and the Son will not. I believe that it means that the time has not been determined by the Father yet too.
It's not really orthodox. It's more "pagan philosopher."
Plato is the one who originally taught that God's attributes were the omni-s and the im-s.
I challenge you to go through your Bible and highlight every verse where it indicates that God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, immutable, and impassable. Then go through and highlight in a different color all the verses that indicate that God is living, personal, relational, good, and loving.
Anyways, that's not the point of this thread's discussion, so I'll leave it at that.
God's Truth
New member
Like I said, God said what He meant. God did NOT say there are three besides each other making one.
That is nonsense, for God says He is one and NO ONE is beside Him or like Him.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus said that while he was a Man on earth.
I don't disagree on that.
So?
That in no way contradicts what I just said. I said, the three Persons speak AS ONE, saying that there is no one beside Him.
THREE SPEAKING AS ONE. Not one speaking as three.
How does that, in any way, go against the fact that the Son is not the one making the decision to return, but the Father will?
God's Truth
New member
In your doctrine, Jesus is not God the Father, he is like God the Father and next to Him.
God says there is no one besides Him and no one like Him.
You have not made you doctrine any clearer or any truer by saying that.
There is One speaking three times for the three.
Right Divider
Body part
So according to the old heretic keypurr, God is not the LORD.
You are on the outside looking in keypurr.
Right Divider
Body part
No, it is not.
Saxon Hammer
New member
Cool....
I have 'sampled' many religious community documentation but have not studied a single book to the exclusion of others as I did not have any belief in 'God', only in 'spirit' and 'human connectedness'.
I am now a believer in 'God' and through my encounter/experience/emergence believe my 'spirit' to now be the same 'spirit' that dwells within all animals. However because I am human I like all humans have a rational brain and I was taught to be 'technical' and 'scientific' - indeed I have had a life that follow just exactly that process.
HOWEVER I have been knocked back many times as I tried to defend myself from the aggression of others.
I was married in a church and am divorced my wife remarried in a registry office, so in the site of the 'Christian God' I am still married. This counts for nothing in my world, in fact EVERYTHING was taken including my mental health, then I was DUMPED. Those are facts not a rant on my behalf - I still love my ex-wife and always will - that is, the true, commitment of love.
The one God is in all people of the earth and there are no RULES it is a fact. Consider if 7,000,000,000 'holy spirits' worked through their physical bodies to make the 'miracle' change we all would like to see. Don't you think that 'God' like changes could become reality.
This is the ministry of God, all around and within us. Amen
The true trinity looks like
Spirit - from God - back to God
Emotion - animal brain - mortal
Rationality - Human brain - mortal
Body - the physical entity
Our function - we as Human Animals we have the responsibility of looking after ALL of God's creatures. Therefore this world and any world we inhabit in the future.
Rational thinking leading me to express myself on this site.
All of my words to date have been learning HOW to speak the words in my 'spirit'.
Peace to you,
Thank you for your question - this is my honest answer, made through my physical being, by my 'spirit'.
The deleted post has to do with a technical issue at my end - resulting in the deletion. I marked it a such because it may have been see and was comments for another site.
Every person is 'connected' to the 'everything' that is 'God' and is expressed in this physical universe 'the creation'. Science KNOWS that the universe is creating itself the power/force/agent is 'God' and we have no way of proving this with tools created in the physical realm. However science already knows of the 'interference' caused by human beings, hence 'double blind trials' and other 'human element' factors found in philosophy (yes it is a science), sociology and psychology etc.