God's Truth
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The Father created all things.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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The Father created all things.
God's Truth
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Jesus has a body and a Spirit which makes him a living soul.
Rosenritter
New member
I may not represent all those who call themselves "Trinity" on this forum, but I can answer that.
Because the sacrifice has to be without sin, because only God is without sin, and when you want something done right, you do it yourself. Ultimately it is God that we sin against, and it has to be God that forgives. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was the symbol that God used to get our attention, in that when he was lifted up, he would draw all men to him.
If God were to sacrifice a goat or a cow, how could that show his love for us? There are millions of goats and cows, and it doesn't show any commitment or seriousness from him. If he were to make someone else go through the ordeal, again, how does that show his love for us? If an angel were to agree to go through this, that only shows that the angel loves us. That God was willing to bear the cross himself shows the extent that he is willing to go for us.
The sacrifice doesn't save man. God saves man through forgiveness of sin. We all sin, we have proven our imperfection that when multiplied out on a scale of eternity falls far short of what God intends for us to become, of what we would need to be to be able to exist within his kingdom that has neither pain nor sorrow, anger, strife, jealousy, or sin against one another. If we repent, and are willing to change, we can be changed, and God has demonstrated that he is willing to come this far to meet us. The sacrifice is symbolic, and if we are willing to meet God we must accept this symbol for what it is: a demonstration of his passion and love for us, and likewise we know that God does know our hurts and pains and sorrow, that he has walked the mile in our shoes, and that he isn't a distant alien but someone very real, someone that knows love and doesn't merely order others to be sacrificed for Him.
Please note that this doesn't require "Trinity" belief exactly but it does require one to acknowledge that God was manifest in the flesh, and that if you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father. Denial that Jesus was indeed God in the flesh destroys the significance of his sacrifice and his love for us, that he is willing (and has already been) personally involved in drawing us to Him.
If someone can show me how belief in a proper by-the-book "Trinity" makes further difference I would like to hear it also.
Because the sacrifice has to be without sin, because only God is without sin, and when you want something done right, you do it yourself. Ultimately it is God that we sin against, and it has to be God that forgives. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was the symbol that God used to get our attention, in that when he was lifted up, he would draw all men to him.
If God were to sacrifice a goat or a cow, how could that show his love for us? There are millions of goats and cows, and it doesn't show any commitment or seriousness from him. If he were to make someone else go through the ordeal, again, how does that show his love for us? If an angel were to agree to go through this, that only shows that the angel loves us. That God was willing to bear the cross himself shows the extent that he is willing to go for us.
The sacrifice doesn't save man. God saves man through forgiveness of sin. We all sin, we have proven our imperfection that when multiplied out on a scale of eternity falls far short of what God intends for us to become, of what we would need to be to be able to exist within his kingdom that has neither pain nor sorrow, anger, strife, jealousy, or sin against one another. If we repent, and are willing to change, we can be changed, and God has demonstrated that he is willing to come this far to meet us. The sacrifice is symbolic, and if we are willing to meet God we must accept this symbol for what it is: a demonstration of his passion and love for us, and likewise we know that God does know our hurts and pains and sorrow, that he has walked the mile in our shoes, and that he isn't a distant alien but someone very real, someone that knows love and doesn't merely order others to be sacrificed for Him.
Please note that this doesn't require "Trinity" belief exactly but it does require one to acknowledge that God was manifest in the flesh, and that if you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father. Denial that Jesus was indeed God in the flesh destroys the significance of his sacrifice and his love for us, that he is willing (and has already been) personally involved in drawing us to Him.
If someone can show me how belief in a proper by-the-book "Trinity" makes further difference I would like to hear it also.
keypurr
Well-known member
The logos was not in the conceived process. The logos came with the fullness of the Father. Jesus had to grow in wisdom, the creator of the worlds did not need that wisdom as he already had it. Also Acts 10:38 tells you when he got that power. Jesus was not born as the Christ, he was born as the savour. He became the Christ (annointed) at his baptism with the logos. That is when God declared that this was his son.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Show me where it says that a FORM of God is God?
God is not a man, never was and most likely never will be.
I see the true Son of God as a spirit. This spirit is a creation and was given the fullness of his God. This spirit is a created form of God, but not God. This spirit was sent to take the form of man by dwelling in the body prepared for him.
It is a worthwhile study to do.
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Which scripture tells you that? Because John 1:14 says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Became flesh, as in, came into existence (which is what the word used in Greek means). Tell me how that does not match Luke 1:35.
And the angel answered and said to her, “ The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:35 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:35&version=NKJV
Did the Holy Spirit also indwell Mary? NO! OF COURSE NOT!
So why do you assume that the Holy Spirit coming upon Jesus is any different?
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. - Philippians 2:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:7&version=NKJV
The Logos emptied (the Greek uses the word for emptied, but it means the same thing) Himself (ie making Himself of no reputation). He grew up like we did, but unlike us humans, He was the perfect Son to His mother and earthly father, learning just as a normal human being.
If Jesus was just a man, and not God With Us, he would have had to not sin for 30 years.
Now, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure no man has ever, when presented with the opportunity to either sin or not sin when He was young, having the knowledge and understanding of the difference between right and wrong, chosen to not sin after reaching the age of accountability.
And if he had sinned, then his death could not have been sufficient for even his own sin, let alone the sin of the world.
No, the only possible way for Jesus to have not sinned is if he were God in the flesh, God With Us, as Matthew 1:23 calls Him.
The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all—that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached:how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. - Acts 10:36-38 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts10:36-38&version=NKJV
Keypurr, I don't see anywhere where it says that the Holy Spirit "indwelt" Jesus, only that Jesus was annointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
Tasty?
Jesus was called Christ by Herod. (Matthew 2:4)
He wasn't baptised with the Logos. I seriously don't know where you're getting this from. Scripture says (in Acts 10:38 and Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, and John 1:32-33) says the Spirit (with a capital 'S', meaning it's a name, or is talking about one of the persons of God), the Pneuma, or the Holy Spirit, the Hagio Pneuma.
In fact, John gives a few more details about the event than the other four gospels.
And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him.I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.” - John 1:32-34 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:32-34&version=NKJV
Also, see the parallel of names between the above passage and Luke 1:35.
"Son of God" is used in both passages. In Greek, there is no capital letters to denote names, but the translators recognized that the "Son of God" is called Holy One earlier in the verse, and since only God is holy (1 Samuel 2:2), we know that "Son of God" in this instance is talking about the Son, the Logos, the Christ.
Ergo, Jesus is the Christ.
Also...
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. - Isaiah 9:6-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah9:6-7&version=NKJV
This is talking about Jesus. Calling Jesus God and the other titles? Only God is worthy to be called God. Ergo, Jesus is God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Good post. I will disagree on this one point. We know this...
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Wrong, Keypur. It's you who refuses to understand the Deity. How many years have you been trying to figure it out and changing your story? Your story does evolve...I'll give you that.
"Conceived" as in, "conceived in the womb of mary," as in:
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. - Philippians 2:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-8&version=NKJV
And as in:
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”And the angel answered and said to her, “ The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:31-35 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke1:31-35&version=NKJV
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. - Matthew 1:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew1:18&version=NKJV
As in:
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:14&version=NKJV
The Word, which was eternal, became flesh, conceived in Mary's womb, and dwelt among us.
He {Jesus} is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. - Colossians 1:15-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians1:15-17&version=NKJV
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. - Genesis 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:1&version=NKJV
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy3:16&version=NKJV
The word used in the Greek is "revealed," which could mean "made known," in a figurative sense, but a better translation would be:
See my response earlier in this comment to GT's comment that the Father created.
What is the price of sin, Keypurr? Can any mere man pay it? (serious question to you, I do want an answer)
The "form of God" can also be translated to the "nature of God."
What is God's nature?
Then you are antichrist, because I have shown you many times that Jesus is God throughout this thread, and you are now saying that Jesus Christ (God the Son) never came as a man.
Pay attention to how these next few excerpts from scripture describe what Jesus Christ did.
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. - 1 John 4:2-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1John4:2-3&version=NKJV
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. - 2 John 1:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2John1:7&version=NKJV
Keypurr, and GT, and anyone else who claims that Jesus is not God in the flesh, who denies the deity of Christ, you are antichrist.
God is not a creation. He created all things.
The Son of God is God (the Son). His name is Jesus Christ, who came in the flesh as a baby, to show us his peaceful intentions, to save the world.
The Holy Spirit is God (the Holy Spirit). He anointed the Son with power.
The Father is God (the Father). He called Jesus Christ His Son in whom He was well pleased.
God (the Trinity) existed for all of time past together, each person fellowshipping with the other two.
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One more thing I feel I need to bring up again:
The only, I repeat ONLY, way Euthyphro's Dilemma can be solved is by God being triune.
Not une, not diune. Triune.
By two or three witnesses you shall establish a matter.
Not saying you're wrong, but to me it seems that, at least when we look at the Greek, it simply says that he is fully God in a physical body.
God's Truth
New member
The Bible says plainly that God the Father is Spirit, and Jesus Christ is the Spirit, and that there is only one Spirit.
What is wrong with you all?
What is wrong with you all?
Eagles Wings
New member
Hey pops...with hundreds of posts substantiating the doctrine of the Holy Trinity in Scripture, my meager fare would be dull in comparison.
So, I concur with Nang, wholeheartedly.
She teaches with precision regarding the Trinity and knows that our Most Holy God must be spoken of with exceptional care and reverence.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The nature of God (Deity) is triune....that's the Godhead.
There is never any separation in our triune God, correct?
I think this translation is good....."all that God is".
The word "fullness" says it as well.
Colossians 2:9 CJB
For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is.
For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is.
Jesus didn't empty Himself of HIs deity when He became flesh, so the Father and the Holy Spirit dwelt in the Son. At the same time, Jesus had his own human body, soul, and spirit.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Give the verse.
While you're at it, give the verse that says Jesus is Israel (as you have previously claimed.)
popsthebuilder
New member
I disagree about the perspective used to describe something being pertinent to salvation.
Perhaps someone could tell me why they think it's crucial.
Then they could go on and answer the other questions I posed.
Pretty strange how people make up their own meaning to words.
Worshipping the One Creator GOD is changed to worshipping three people as if the man, Jesus of Nazareth, instructed people to worship him as opposed to not mentioning him.
Christ is GOD, man is not.
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Rosenritter
New member
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Actually Pops, we do have this:
1) Jesus said there is One God, and you should worship him and him only shall you serve.
2) Jesus, unlike the angels or the apostles, allowed people to worship him.
3) Other beings, throughout the bible, including the apostles and angels, all immediately refused worship
So here's seven passages all from the gospel of Matthew: one where Jesus affirms that worship is reserved only for God, and six where Jesus accepts worship without rebuke or refusal.
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Matthew 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
But it sounded like you are saying we should worship Christ, but Jesus was not Christ. I can't be hearing you correctly. Or that we should worship Jesus, but Jesus was not in the form of a man when upon this earth. Or ... I am not actually sure what you are saying. But we do have Jesus, on earth, saying we should only worship God, and then accepting worship while on that same earth. And we do have God, raising Jesus from the dead as verification that this same Jesus spoke with the words of God. Therefore, what Jesus did and said was correct.
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Actually Pops, we do have this:
1) Jesus said there is One God, and you should worship him and him only shall you serve.
2) Jesus, unlike the angels or the apostles, allowed people to worship him.
3) Other beings, throughout the bible, including the apostles and angels, all immediately refused worship
So here's seven passages all from the gospel of Matthew: one where Jesus affirms that worship is reserved only for God, and six where Jesus accepts worship without rebuke or refusal.
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Matthew 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
But it sounded like you are saying we should worship Christ, but Jesus was not Christ. I can't be hearing you correctly. Or that we should worship Jesus, but Jesus was not in the form of a man when upon this earth. Or ... I am not actually sure what you are saying. But we do have Jesus, on earth, saying we should only worship God, and then accepting worship while on that same earth. And we do have God, raising Jesus from the dead as verification that this same Jesus spoke with the words of God. Therefore, what Jesus did and said was correct.
John 10:18 KJV - God raised Himself