The Trinity

The Trinity


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JudgeRightly

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we are flesh and spirit. For you to say we are not and claim you got that from Paul is ridiculous.
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

Seems pretty clear to me...
 

God's Truth

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For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

Seems pretty clear to me...

We are flesh and spirit.

When our flesh dies our spirit lives on in consciousness.

I don't know why you want to say our flesh bodies are not part of us.

Our flesh bodies affect our spirits.

If you cut your hand can you feel it?

Get a hold of yourself and stop going against common sense.
 

KingdomRose

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Isaiah 48:16
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

What is that supposed to prove? So two people and a thing (spirit) are mentioned in the same sentence.....how does that prove a Trinity? How does that show that they are EQUAL (which the Trinity Doctrine states)?

Any answers?
 

glorydaz

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What is that supposed to prove? So two people and a thing (spirit) are mentioned in the same sentence.....how does that prove a Trinity? How does that show that they are EQUAL (which the Trinity Doctrine states)?

Any answers?

The Spirit is a person....a member of the Godhead. The Lord God and His Spirit sent Him. How can the Spirit send someone if the Spirit is a "thing" as you claim?
 

JudgeRightly

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We are flesh and spirit.

When our flesh dies our spirit lives on in consciousness.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

Paul says we live in a tent. You say we are the tent. So who should I believe? You? Or Paul?

I don't know why you want to say our flesh bodies are not part of us.

Is your house a part of your body? No. In the same way our bodies are not part of our spirit.

Our flesh bodies affect our spirits.

Our bodies allow us to interact with the physical world around us. They are our interface with the universe.

If you cut your hand can you feel it?

Pain and sentience are both knowledge based, and since knowledge is not physical, pain is not physical. Consider these three aspects of organisms and beings, body, soul, and spirit:

"- A Plant has a Body: do not have souls (which are non-material), and when you chop down a tree, it does not feel pain (a 1960s science fiction TV show notwithstanding).
- An Animal has a Body and Soul: in addition to a body, animals have a non-material component, a rudimentary soul as indicated in Genesis 1:24*and elsewhere. A soul enables animals to sense pain, and so that many can relate to other animals and to human beings.
- A Person has a Body, Soul, and Spirit: God made human beings with a body, soul, and spirit (1 Thes. 5:23, etc.), and thus we have a far greater capacity to enjoy the depths of relationship, and also therefore, to experience pain."

From kgov.com/pain, which I encourage you to read.

Get a hold of yourself and stop going against common sense.

I'll take scripture over what you call "common sense" any day.

Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.” - Romans 3:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3:4&version=NKJV
 

God's Truth

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For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

Paul says we live in a tent. You say we are the tent. So who should I believe? You? Or Paul?



Is your house a part of your body? No. In the same way our bodies are not part of our spirit.



Our bodies allow us to interact with the physical world around us. They are our interface with the universe.



Pain and sentience are both knowledge based, and since knowledge is not physical, pain is not physical. Consider these three aspects of organisms and beings, body, soul, and spirit:

"- A Plant has a Body: do not have souls (which are non-material), and when you chop down a tree, it does not feel pain (a 1960s science fiction TV show notwithstanding).
- An Animal has a Body and Soul: in addition to a body, animals have a non-material component, a rudimentary soul as indicated in Genesis 1:24*and elsewhere. A soul enables animals to sense pain, and so that many can relate to other animals and to human beings.
- A Person has a Body, Soul, and Spirit: God made human beings with a body, soul, and spirit (1 Thes. 5:23, etc.), and thus we have a far greater capacity to enjoy the depths of relationship, and also therefore, to experience pain."

From kgov.com/pain, which I encourage you to read.



I'll take scripture over what you call "common sense" any day.

Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.” - Romans 3:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3:4&version=NKJV

You say our flesh is not our body???
 

Bright Raven

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It wasn't around before the 2nd century. And it wasn't solidified until the 4th century. The RCC itself admits this. How strange that such an important doctrine did not exist until AFTER the first century!
Early Trinitarian Quotes
by Matt Slick (Carm.org)

There are cult groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, Christadelphians, etc.) who deny the Trinity and state that the doctrine was not mentioned until the 4th Century until after the time of the Council of Nicea (325). This council "was called by Emperor Constantine to deal with the error of Arianism [see page 45] which was threatening the unity of the Christian Church."

The following quotes show that the doctrine of the Trinity was indeed alive-and-well before the Council of Nicea:

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

"O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.

"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: . . . one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all . . . '" (Against Heresies X.l)

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.

"If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority . . . There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).

"For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)

"Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification . . . " (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).
 

Nihilo

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Anyone can read read how you are going against me for saying we are flesh and spirit.
How 'come people aren't going against you because you won't shut up about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus from the dead on the third day? Because that's why people were going against the Apostles.
 

JudgeRightly

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Anyone can read read how you are going against me for saying we are flesh and spirit.
I'm going against you because you contradict what the Bible says.

Who should I believe, GT, or Paul?

Hmmm... :think: that's a tough one, I'm not sure I can answer that... :mock: :darwinism:
 

Nihilo

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Yeah . . way too hairy . .

There should be a rule.
Because it's hairy? :freak: A hairless man's belly would be less offensive?

What's offensive about a belly anyway? I ask you. Is it because the guy's got a problem with gluttony?
 
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