The Trinity

The Trinity


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iamaberean

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Spirit is the nature of a person, place, or thing. A soul is both body and spirit. If God is not a person, then He does not exist.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Notice the word Spirit (capital 'S'), and spirit in the above. We worship in spirit, but God is the Spirit.
 

iamaberean

New member

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Notice the word Spirit (capital 'S'), and spirit in the above. We worship in spirit, but God is the Spirit.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Judaism had no concept of God having a Son. While the Trinity had been known and taught long before Judaism evolved, the monotheistic battle of the Israelites against the multiple Gods of surrounding cultures left no room for a Triune deity in Hebrew Theology.

The truth that God has a creator Son who created this world was revealed in the life of Jesus.

That's not true if you read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My son; let My son go that he may serve Me." That's a conception of God having a son. The problem with Judaism is for God to have a son without a biological father. That, yes, makes of God one among the Olympia pantheon of Greek Mythology and the son akin to the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18)
 

Caino

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That's not true if you read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My son; let My son go that he may serve Me." That's a conception of God having a son. The problem with Judaism is for God to have a son without a biological father. That, yes, makes of God one among the Olympia pantheon of Greek Mythology and the son akin to the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18)

Face palm! Not that kind of exaggerated Son conceived in recollection from the Babylonion editors, a Divine creator Son as in Jesus Christ who is from the beginning, created the earth and has all power and authority in heaven and on earth.

And hey Ben, did you find the courage to critique the Cannanites/Israelites Torah the way you do the New Testament?
 

CherubRam

New member

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Notice the word Spirit (capital 'S'), and spirit in the above. We worship in spirit, but God is the Spirit.
We are also spirits in the flesh.
Hebrews 12:9
Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

Enoch 46:2
He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwelt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness.
 

patrick jane

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The Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit which begat Jesus.

and the Holy Spirit "as a third person" does not get a mention in the Bible.

1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

Yes, I remember now that you are anti Trinity also. I guess all the anti Trins end up on TOL because TOL lets you post here. All other Christian forums will ban you. Fortunately you haven't convinced any true believers of your false teachings.
 
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jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Is the Trinity biblical?
Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

The NT speaks of our Father in heaven, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, I find it impossible to think of the Holy Spirit as a person.

Jesus compared the Holy Spirit to rivers of living waters. A river is not a person.

He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(John 7:38-39 NKJV)​

What happened to the Holy Spirit while Jesus was not yet glorified?

Jesus said to the woman of Samaria, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." (John 4:14 NKJV)​

How can a person be compared to a fountain of water?

...for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. (Revelation 7:17 NKJV)​

Again we have the reference to fountains of waters, not a person.

It's not possible for me to think of the Holy Spirit as anything other than a manifestation of God's Spirit, i.e., his power.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Face palm! Not that kind of exaggerated Son conceived in recollection from the Babylonion editors, a Divine creator Son as in Jesus Christ who is from the beginning, created the earth and has all power and authority in heaven and on earth.

And hey Ben, did you find the courage to critique the Cannanites/Israelites Torah the way you do the New Testament?

Tell me what in the Torah needs criticism and we can talk.
 

CherubRam

New member
Yes, I remember now that you are anti Trinity also. I guess all the anti Trins end up on TOL because TOL lets you post here. All other Christian forums will ban you. Fortunately you haven't convinced any true believers of your false teachings.
Trinitarianism would not be debated if there was no problems with it. Do you prefer the Catholic insertions to the original scriptures?
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Trinitarianism would not be debated if there was no problems with it. Do you prefer the Catholic insertions to the original scriptures?

But Rome had a trinity: Jupiter, Mars, Venus.
Wayward Israel had a trinity: Baal, Tammuz, Ashoreth.
Egypt had a trinity: Osiris, Horus, Isis.
Greece had a trinity: Zeus, Apollo, Athena.
India had a trinity: Brahama, Visnu, Sheva.
Babylon had a trinity: Nimrod, Tammuz, Semiramis (pictured as mother and child).
Catholicism has a trinity: Father, Son, Holy Spirit (symbolized as a dove).
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Are you anti Trinity ?
No, I am pro-scripture.

The plain reading of scripture overwhelmingly teaches a Unitarian view of God with the exception of two to three dozen passages mentioned below, so people that believes in the Trinity should have any problem with Bible literalists holding a Unitarian view.

Scripture supports belief in a Binitarian view of both Jesus and the Father being God in about two dozen or so passages found in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, though the interpretation of those passages have been debated for 1700 years.

Scripture supports the belief in a Trinitarian view of the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and the Father all being God in half a dozen additional passages to the ones used to support the Binitarian view, though the interpretation of those passages have also been debated for 1700 years.

Scripture does not teach belief in the Trinity.

Yes, He/She is.
You are a liar.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
If you call me a liar for calling you a non-trinitarian that may be a good thing. From your posts you seem to be Unitarian.
You are trying to see if a person is either a Trinitarian or a Unitarian so you can accept them or reject them.

I am searching the scriptures to see whether the scriptures teach what the churches say it teaches to see whether a doctrine should be accepted or rejected.

Can you see the difference?
 

Bright Raven

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You are trying to see if a person is either a Trinitarian or a Unitarian so you can accept them or reject them.

I am searching the scriptures to see whether the scriptures teach what the churches say it teaches to see whether a doctrine should be accepted or rejected.

Can you see the difference?

I don't reject people because of their beliefs. Knowing their beliefs helps me to see if I can show them the truth. I don't reject people but God will. And yes I understand why you are searching.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
I don't reject people because of their beliefs. Knowing their beliefs helps me to see if I can show them the truth.
Where are you finding your truth?
I am finding my truth in scriptures.

I don't reject people but God will.
You are fortunate that He will not reject you because you are a Trinitarian, a Binitarian, or a Unitarian.
God has other standards that you must fail to meet before you will be rejected.

And yes I understand why you are searching.
I asked if you knew the difference, not the reason I search the scriptures.

As for the reason to search the scriptures, that is also found in the Bible.

John 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


Acts 17:10-11
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.​

 

Bright Raven

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Where are you finding your truth?
I am finding my truth in scriptures.


You are fortunate that He will not reject you because you are a Trinitarian, a Binitarian, or a Unitarian.
God has other standards that you must fail to meet before you will be rejected.


I asked if you knew the difference, not the reason I search the scriptures.

As for the reason to search the scriptures, that is also found in the Bible.

John 5:39
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


Acts 17:10-11
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.​


Good Post!
 

Caino

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Banned
Tell me what in the Torah needs criticism and we can talk.

There are plenty of errors in the Torah aside from the obvious exaggerations about the history of the so called Israelites which are in truth an amalgamation of the remnants of Moses's followers and the Canaanites. You can start a thread and we can hash it out but I can tell you buy into the nationalistic pride of the Jewish people so............
 
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