Rosenritter
New member
It would work either way. God is a spirit, and the father of spirits, but he is not a created spirit but the Holy Spirit.
The Trinity
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Rosenritter
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Then which one begat Jesus? You will have to decide which scripture is wrong.
keypurr
Well-known member
I think for myself, yes I do.
But you are the denier of the words of our Lord. You believe in the garbage that the RCC installed.
Your choice, not mine.
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Apple7
New member
The incarnation was a Triune event, as already shown.
marhig
Well-known member
That verse clearly says that we are to worship the father in spirit and in truth, not a triune God!
Satan is free and roaming to see whom he can devour as are those who belong to him. Why do you think he's bound now? And where does it say in the Bible that Satan was bound at the cross? Thanks
marhig
Well-known member
Sorry without reading through everything, do you believe that the father is the holy ghost? I'm just wondering as to how other people believe, and if you so, why do you think this? Thanks
I see the holy ghost as separate the father. He comes from the father but he isn't him.
Rosenritter
New member
I understand the Holy Ghost as referring to God as he works in in this world as spirit. This is God himself, not one of his created angels.
I understand the Father to how Jesus chose to refer to God above when he walked among us as a man.
The titles may not have identical meaning but would refer to the same that created both the heavens and the earth.
For clarification,
I understand that we have One God who created the heavens and the earth. In the Old Testament he spoke to Adam, to Abraham as "I AM" and later to Moses and Israel as the LORD Jehovah. At various times he spoke with men by means of dreams, visions, and even by literal verifiable physical appearance. Although he can take physical form when he wishes, God is a spirit, and the creator of all other spirits.
I believe that God chose to appear to us in a special and unique fashion: he would come to us as born like a child, walk among us in our shoes, and offer himself as a willing sacrifice for our sin that he might draw men to himself that they might be saved. God may have before appeared in the flesh (such as with Adam, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Joshua) but this was not merely for appearance, but that he might demonstrate to us that he had endured all things as we did. I understand that when God walked among us in this form we called him Jesus.
As to how exactly this worked I may speculate that God simply managed to be in more than one place at once. Surely when he appeared to Moses and talked face to face as a friend he wasn't absent from heaven, and he must have the power to multi-task if he can listen to all of our prayers at once. What would make this different would be that one part of himself could experience would work through our limited human frame and mind, even to the extent of limited knowledge and experience.
Can God do this? I suppose that he could. Can I do this? Not exactly. We have the occasional movie where a person splits themselves into multiple locations at once and operates independently. I cannot say how exactly this is done, so I rely on clear statements from scripture and Jesus himself (as opposed to my own reasoning) and let the gray areas fill themselves out.
So when Genesis tells us that God created the heavens and the earth and John that Jesus created all things, to me that means God equals Jesus. When the Lord of the Old Testament says that he is the first and the last, that is his name, there is no other God, and he will not share his glory with another, and Jesus also introduces himself as the first and the last, that also forms a clear equivalence in my mind. God appeared to men by other names in time past, but the name which he now makes himself known is by the name Jesus.
Apple7
New member
Its verses - not verse.
Remember context.
The context declares God as being Father, Son and Spirit.
Not according to scripture.
Scripture repeatedly says so...
Heb 2.14.
Elijah's mission was the turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers.
Malachi 4:6 And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.
Scripture reveals two fathers: the father of Adam and the father of Jesus.
The two fathers are the Holy Spirit.
Holy Spirit is singular not dual.
And God is singular, not dual.
And family is singular not dual.
And team is singular not dual.
And Congress is singular, not dual.
There's just no end.
Rosenritter
New member
Did you read that passage before claiming that it said Satan was bound at the cross?
Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
A couple difficulties for your interpretation:
1) It does not say that the devil would be bound, but that the devil would be destroyed. Two entirely different concepts.One can be bound without being destroyed, and one can be destroyed without being bound.
2) It does not say that the action of destruction occurred at the moment of the cross, but that it would be accomplished through the cross. Two entirely different times. The time of fulfillment will be consistent as described by the prophets.
The scripture already gives us the time when the devil will be bound, released, and then later destroyed. None of those were at the cross.
Rosenritter
New member
I think you're jumping a little too far out on a limb by making Malachi 4:6 mean "Heavenly Fathers" rather than merely "fathers" as written.
marhig
Well-known member
You say that you don't believe in a triune God, but from this post you do seem to believe in the trinity, how is the way you believe different from the trinity?
I do see the holy spirit differently, when God spoke to Moses at the burning bush, he spoke through angel, yet the angel only spoke what God had given him to say, even saying "I am" through the angel, and Jesus when he spoke to John in revelation he spoke through an angel, yet the angel spoke as if it were Jesus speaking.
It says in the Bible that there are ministering spirits, what are those spirits who minister unto us?
The angel spoke to Moses out of flames of fire, the tongue of the spirit came upon the apostles as flames of fire at Pentecost
And Hebrews 1
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
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marhig
Well-known member
Hebrews 2:14 is nothing to do with Jesus destroying Satan at the natural cross, he's talking about Jesus being dead to the flesh and putting the power of Satan to death in his flesh, by denying his own will and doing the will of God, thus denying Satan and the world!
Where does it mention the cross in Hebrews 2:14?
And it's worshipping the father in spirit and in truth, There is absolutely no trinity there, Jesus is not saying for us to worship the spirit or to worship the truth but worship the father only.
marhig
Well-known member
There only one father, God the father
Matthew 23
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Matthew 23:9 Do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
Where do you think Jesus is?
Let's say for the sake of discussion that Abraham is one of the fathers of Israel, so where is Abraham?
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises...
Dead men don't talk and dead men don't turn.
Who do you believe is the Father of Adam? Who do you believe is the Father of Jesus?
Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Without Christ nothing was made that was made, and Adam was made.
You missed one.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.