The Theory of Original Sin

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS, you said;

"have already addressed the sin issue, in full, and that context is king.."


Why don't you address what Paul said about Peter?:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-140.

According to Paul both Peter and Barnabus walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel and Peter was to be blamed.

There can be no doubt that Peter was born of God and he sinned. But you continues to insist that those born of God cannot sin and you refuse to answer if he has sinned since he has been saved and born of God.

OZOS, why won't you tell us if you have sinned since you were "born of God"?

Why?
 

OZOS

Well-known member
OZOS, you said;

"have already addressed the sin issue, in full, and that context is king.."

Why don't you address what Paul said about Peter?:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-140.

According to Paul both Peter and Barnabus walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel and Peter was to be blamed.

There can be no doubt that Peter was born of God and he sinned. But you continues to insist that those born of God cannot sin and you refuse to answer if he has sinned since he has been saved and born of God.

OZOS, why won't you tell us if you have sinned since you were "born of God"?

Why?
YOU are adding "sin" to Peter, because YOU don't understand a single thing about the Bible or the gospel., and you are too arrogant to learn. That is why you continually call God a liar...

The apostle John writes...

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

The pervert Jerry, calls God a "liar", when he says...
Jerry Shugart said:
Those who are born of God do sin"

You are such a fraud, whining about others and posting the same nonsense ad nauseum, even when you've been answered multiple times. Go to hell, you godless pervert. You are an embarrassment to reason and to your family, whom you are dragging to hell with you.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-140.
What "sin" did Peter commit, Jerry? Answer the question.

Here is what Jesus says...

"Everyone who commits a sin is the slave of sin"

Is Peter a slave of sin, Jerry? Answer the question.
Is Jesus lying, Jerry? Answer the question.

The apostle John writes...

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

Is Peter born of God, Jerry?
Is the apostle John lying, Jerry? Answer the question.
 
Last edited:

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS, you asked:

What "sin" did Peter commit, Jerry? Answer the question.

while spesking of both Peter and barnabus Paul said that they " walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, "


According to Paul whatever is not of faith is sin:

"everything that does not come from faith is sin." (Ro.14;230.

No wonder that you think you hadn't sinned since you were saved because you couldn't recognize a sin if it hit you right between the eyes.

Paul said that they WALKED NOT UPRIGHTLY according to the truth of the gospel but you are unable to understand that that was a sin!

Perhaps you are right and Paul was in error when he said that Peter was to blamed! NOT!

As usual you are delusional. I hope they treat you well in your padded cell.



"
 

OZOS

Well-known member
OZOS, you asked:

What "sin" did Peter commit, Jerry? Answer the question.

while spesking of both Peter and barnabus Paul said that they " walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, "


According to Paul whatever is not of faith is sin:

"everything that does not come from faith is sin." (Ro.14;230.

no wonder that you think you hadn't sinned since you were saved because you couldn't recognize a sin if it hit you right between the eyes.

paul said that they WALKED NOT UPRIGHTLY according to the truth of the gospel but you are unable to undertand that that was a sin!



"
I went over all of this in a previous post, but you don't read my posts, because you're a lazy donkey's butt, and a turd swallowing pervert.

Nevertheless, I affirmed that "whatever is not from faith is sin.", and that context is king. But, because you're a moron, and a pervert, you conflate sin that is associated with lawlessness, with sin that is not of faith. Not the same, and John writes about sin derived from lawlessness.

Your brain is so filled with crap, and you are so full of yourself, that you can't even follow along in a conversation and discern what is said from post to post. I hope you go straight to hell, and I hope it is soon.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You asked me a question and I answered it. Can you see that Peter did sin or in your opinion is" walking not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel'" not a sin?
 

OZOS

Well-known member
You asked me a question and I answered it. Can you see that Peter did sin or in your opinion is" walking not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel'" not a sin?
Whatever is not of faith is sin.

You continually conflate the sin of unbelief with the sin derived from lawlessness. This is what I have ALWAYS pointed out, but you are far too stupid and lazy to listen.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The sin of Peter involved his behavior and his sin derived from lawlessness. he knew that what he was doing was a sin but he did it anyway. but according to you even though Paul said that "Peter was to be blamed" you stand reason on its head and assert that Peter didn't sin.

You have absolutely no respect for the truth if it is contradicts your silly ideas.

The following verse also make it plain that those who are born of God can sin:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"
(Heb.10;260.

I am sure that you will not hesitate to pervert the meaning of this verse because you put your silly ideas ABOVE what the Scriptures reveal.

'
 
Last edited:

OZOS

Well-known member
The following verse also make it plain that those who are born of God can sin:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb.10;260.
'
Once again, you braindead pervert, Hebrews 10:26 is dealing with unbelief. The writer of Hebrews is dealing with those who continue to reject Christ, the sin of unbelief. Jesus did not die for our unbelief, He died for our sins relating to lawlessness. Unbelief requires REPENTENCE.

"For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth (the gospel), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10:26-29

This is EXCATLY what you do.

How does someone know if they sin? Let's let the Bible tell us...

"Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." 1 John 3:4

"Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law is the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20

"For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the Law brings about wrath; for where there is no Law there is no transgression." Rom 4:14-15

"What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, “You shall not covet.” Rom 7:7

According to God's word, the Law reveals sin. It's like a mirror. It does not make your face dirty, but is reveals that you have a dirty face. The strength of sin, is the Law.

"The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the Law." 1 Cor 15:56

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom 6:23

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the Law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no Law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." Rom 5:12-14

The above verse solidifies the truth that sin was in the world and death through sin, even though they had not sinned in the likeness of Adam. This is because sin reigns in death.

"Moreover the Law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 5:20-21

The Law revealed that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Sin reigns in death. Grace and righteousness reign in life. Those who are dead in Adam are slaves of sin. Those who are alive in Christ are slaves of righteousness. A person is one or the other, and you cannot be both.

Therefore, since sin reigns in death, in order for anyone to no longer continue in sin, they must be made alive in Christ. The abundant grace of God frees us from the abundance of sin.

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin." Rom 6:1-7

Paul makes it abundantly clear that those who have been crucified with Christ and raised to new life cannot continue in sin. The old man (in Adam) has died to sin, and the body of sin "destroyed". To "serve sin" is to return to the Law. To become a slave of sin, is to seek justification by works, rather than by faith. The Law can only reveal sin, and those who serve the Law are those who continue to sin. Those who are born of God, cannot sin, because they are free from sin, and slaves of righteousness. As Jesus said "Everyone who commits sin, is the slave of sin".

Now, can believers contribute to sin, yes. How? By leading others away from the faith.

"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

There is sin, that is a violation of the Law (behavior) and there is sin that is not of faith (unbelief).

"Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." Heb 3:17-19

So, when John tells us that those who are born of God cannot sin, the context is lawlessness. The same is true, when the apostle Paul says that believers cannot continue in sin, and when Jesus says that those who sin are slaves of sin. However, believers can and do sin in regards to unbelief. They not only participate by returning to the Law (Galatia), but also in contributing to the unbelief of others (Corinth). Because YOU, and most others, do not qualify the differences and you lack a fundamental understanding of what salvation is, what it means to be a "new creation", "born of the Spirit", "born of God", "alive in Christ", etc., you forever continue to speak about those things you fail to understand, and you contribute to leading others away from the faith.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS, you said "Once again, you braindead pervert, Hebrews 10:26 is dealing with unbelief. The writer of Hebrews is dealing with those who continue to reject Christ, the sin of unbelief."

So the following words are addressed to those who continue to reject Christ?:

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." (Heb.9:12).

You are the brainhead pervert, not me.



'
 

OZOS

Well-known member
OZOS, you said "Once again, you braindead pervert, Hebrews 10:26 is dealing with unbelief. The writer of Hebrews is dealing with those who continue to reject Christ, the sin of unbelief."

So the following words are addressed to those who continue to reject Christ?:

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." (Heb.9:12).
'
No, you dummy, and the writer of Hebrews continually goes back and forth speaking to Jews and about Jews who have believed and those who have not.

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him"

"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

You're a moron.

Hebrews 10:26 concerns those who have heard the gospel (word of truth) and continue to reject it.

The Holy Spirit was sent to convict the world (unbelievers) of sin, because they do not believe in Him.

The writer of Hebrews begins this chapter explaining the why the sacrifice of Jesus is superior.

"For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can NEVER by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having ONCE been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Hebrews 10:1-4

Those who come to God, in spirit and in truth (the worshipers), should no longer have any consciousness of sins, because they know they have been cleansed from them ONCE for ALL. To be sin conscious is to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus was insufficient to have cleansed you from all unrighteousness and to make you perfect (Heb 10:14).

Sacrifices under the Law

  • Can never make you perfect
  • Can never stop you from being sin conscious
  • Reminded of your sins year after year
  • Can never take away your sin

The Sacrifice of Jesus

Takes away your sin, once for all

• No more reminder of your sins

• No more sin consciousness

• Makes you perfect forever


There is no more sacrifice for sin.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS, you said:

"No, you dummy, and the writer of Hebrews continually goes back and forth speaking to Jews and about Jews who have believed and those who have not."

So when the author of the book of Hebrews used the pronoun "we" in the following verse that pronoun represents unbelievers even though the author was a believer!:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb.10:26).

This verse also sapeaks of those who have "received the knowledge of the truth" but despite this fact you say that they were unbelievers.

You are dumber than I ever imagined!
 

OZOS

Well-known member
OZOS, you said:

So when the author of the book of Hebrews used the pronoun "we" in the following verse that pronoun represents unbelievers even though the author was a believer!:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb.10:26).

This verse also sapeaks of those who have "received the knowledge of the truth" but despite this fact you say that they were unbelievers.
Try to pay attention AGAIN, you stupid man. READ THE FOLLOWING:

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him"

If this "we" neglects so great a salvation then are they believers?
You're a moron, and I'll prove it again.

For YOU to claim that the "we" is not a declaration that includes ALL men, who reject the gospel, is more evidence of how really dumb you are.

The "knowledge of the truth" is the gospel message, which was laid out for YOU in this entire letter, concerning who Jesus is and what He has done. The willful sin is rejecting the gospel, you idiot.

In your perverted world, you claim that any believer, who would sin willfully, after hearing truth (about what exactly?) would no longer have any sacrifice for their sin. All that they (you) can look forward to is a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation.

You're a moron.

YOU ignored the rest of the post because it proves what I said, and you hate the truth.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS said:

"
Try to pay attention AGAIN, you stupid man. READ THE FOLLOWING:

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him"

If this "we" neglects so great a salvation then are they believers?


You scripture perverter, the writer didn't say that they did neglect so great a salvation but instead he preface those words with the word "If."

There is no "if" in the following verse but you said nothing about that fact:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb.10;26).

According to your perversion of the scriptures these people had not received the knowledge of the truth!

According to your perversion of Hebrews 10:26 when the author used the pronoun "we"he was identifying himself with unbelievers!

You are a joke and tat is why no one on this forum takes you seriously!




 

OZOS

Well-known member
There is no "if" in the following verse but you said nothing about that fact:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb.10;26).
:LOL: You are so easy to discredit.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS wrote, "Having received the knowledge of the truth does not equate to accepting the knowledge of the truth, it simply means that they have been told, and they rejected it."

According to your silly idea we are supposed to believe that since the author of Hebrews used the pronoun"we"that he placed himself i the camp of unbelievers he was told the truth and he rejected it.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb.10;26).

Do you really expect anyone else to believe your perversion of this verse, OZOS? Are you that delusional, you old fool?

Another example of those who were born of God actually committing a sin is those Christians who were eating and drinking at the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner. Here is what Paul said about them:

"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body" (1 Cor.11;29).

These were believers because Paul said the following to them;

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (!1 Cor.11:31032).

If they were unbelievers they would be judged with the world.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me" (Jn.15;40.

Evidently those who are eternally secure can cease to "abide"in the Lord Jesus so He himself makes a distinction. This is about being in fellowship with him. He told believers the following
"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."

Because Jerry denies that the cross did anything at all, as well as the resurrection, he again does not comprehend that what Jesus said here concerns those who were to believe in Him. Everyone who believes in Jesus, God abides in Him, and he in God. This is why Paul said that we are "one spirit with Him", having received the Holy Spirit (who is God) and dwells in us, and we in Him. Jesus repeatedly laid the foundation for what was to come, as a result of His once for all sacrifice and resurrection. Salvation (eternal life) is having God abide in you, and you in Him, which did not and could not happen for any man until the Holy Spirit (who gives life) dwells in those who believe in Jesus.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
SOZOS throws his reason to the wind and says that "what Jesus said here concerns those who were to believe in Him."

Perhaps SOZOS will answer how these so.called non-believers are described by the Lord Jesus as being "branches" which are a part of the true Vine, which is Him (compare (Jn.15;5 with15:1).

We are supposed to believe that these are non-believers despite what the Lord told them here:

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" (Jn.15;3).

Perhaps SOZOS will address these points?
 

OZOS

Well-known member
SOZOS throws his reason to the wind and says that "what Jesus said here concerns those who were to believe in Him."

Perhaps SOZOS will answer how these so.called non-believers are described by the Lord Jesus as being "branches" which are a part of the true Vine, which is Him (compare (Jn.15;5 with15:1).

We are supposed to believe that these are non-believers despite what the Lord told them here:

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" (Jn.15;3).

Perhaps SOZOS will address these points?
:LOL: Amazing that you have the testicular fortitude to show you face around here, after you've been proven to be a godless heretic over and over again.

Just like other words in the Bible, you stumble over them because you fail to read and understand the context.

You are not only a waste of everyone's time on this site, but among anyone who knows you.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Of course you did not answer how your so-callled unbelievers are considered by the Lord Jesus to branches of the true Vine. which is Christ.

And likewise you did not answer as to how these so-called unbeliievers are"clean through the word":

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" (Jn.15;3).

Do you never tire of embarrassing yourself? Evidently you are a glutton for punishment!
 
Top