The Theory of Original Sin

OZOS

Well-known member
Question: If a believer, someone who has placed their faith in Christ and who is sealed by the Holy Spirit, is not abiding in Christ, can he sin?
I promise I'll answer that question, if you can tell me how someone who is in Christ is not abiding in Christ?
 

OZOS

Well-known member
Did Jesus love the Pharisees? Yes or no?
Did Paul love Elymus? Yes or no?

Does God love the whole human race or not?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).
While Jesus is God, and He did love the Pharisees, Paul is not God and he did love Elymus.

Therefore...

"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies." - Jesus

"You snakes, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?" - Jesus

"But Elymas the magician was opposing them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, stared at him, and said, “You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not stop making crooked the straight ways of the Lord?" - Paul
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Judge Rightly, you said;

"Question: If a believer, someone who has placed their faith in Christ and who is sealed by the Holy Spirit, is not abiding in Christ, can he sin?

If a person is abiding in christ he is walking in the spirit and at that time he will not sin. But if h begins walking after the flesh then he can sin. Then if he confesses his sin it will be remitted and he will once again be in a condition whereby he is no longer defiled.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
While Jesus is God, and He did love the Pharisees, Paul is not God and he did love Elymus.

So the Lord Jesus is no longer God and was no longer God when He walked the earth?
 

OZOS

Well-known member
While Jesus is God, and He did love the Pharisees, Paul is not God and he did love Elymus.

So the Lord Jesus is no longer God and was no longer God when He walked the earth?
How in the world did you possibly come to that conclusion based on anything I said?
You are a senile moron.

Let's back up, you blithering idiot.

1. You accused me of not loving others based on how I have spoken to you.

2. I then asked you if Jesus loved the Pharisees or if Paul loved Elymus.

3. You then responded with a verse that had nothing to do with the conversation.

4. I then showed you how Jesus and Paul spoke to evil men like you, which does not negate that Jesus and Paul loved them. He wanted them to stop lying to people, the same way you lie to people.

You really are far to retarded to converse with people publicly.
 

ttruscott

Active member
ttruscott, you said;

"This and the hints that Adam and Eve were sinners in the garden are a good start..."

So even though God referred to the totality of His creation as being "very good" (Gen.1:31) you say that adam and eve were made sinners?

Even though the Scriptures declare that the Lord Jesus was made like His brothers in all things? (Heb.2;17)?
No Sir, I do not claim anyone was made a sinner especially if made is to mean created.

ImCo:
I contend that every person created in the image of GOD was created with a free will and the equal ability and opportunity to choose to either become holy by putting their faith, their unproven hope, in YHWH's claims to deity OR to become eternally evil and separated from GOD forever by rejecting HIS claims to deity, putting their faith, their unproven hope, in the belief HE was a false god and a liar.

Those who put their faith in HIM were given the promise of being elected to heaven as soon as all evil had been cleansed from this reality, and redeemed by the work of the Son if they should ever sin. Those who rejected HIM and became eternally sinful were condemned to hell on the spot - John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. - and the elect were all called to come out from among them, to break all ties of loyalty to them so they could be judged but some of the elect rebelled at this command and became sinful in HIS sight but able to be be redeemed as under HIS promise.

Everything was good:
It is not proven that very good refers to a state of being righteous and not to a purpose. If the purpose of God's creation of the earth was as a prison for all sinners with a reform school to chasten, convert and sanctify His fallen, rebellious Church then His creation of the earth for the purpose of the redemption of His church could indeed be called very good even though part of the church was already fallen and not doing so good.

We have the case of the sinful elect being called the good seed though we know they were not good but were sinful because they were liable to being pulled up with the tares if the judgement was called before they were sanctified and made heaven ready. Matt 13, the parable of the weeds. So good is not always used to refer to a state of being righteous or innocent as in this case it is a reference to their being elect under the promise of restoration to HIMself.
 

ttruscott

Active member
Everything was good:

Sinful before eating...
First: the law is NOT given to the righteous or the innocent but to lawbreakers to convict them of their sin: 1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers etc... Romans 3:20... rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Since they were the only people around, they must have been the sinners targeted for conviction for a previous sin by the law not to eat.

Second: what law did Satan break? Since he was sinful enough to war against, then he must have broken a law...and the fact we don't know what that law was does not mean there was no law. Maybe the law not to eat was not the first law given to Adam and Eve but not mentioned just like the law the serpent broke is not mentioned.

I wonder too when he sinned and the serpent became the serpent? Obviously it was before Adam and Eve sinned in the garden since he beguiled Eve into rebellion.* Thus since it was pronounced to be all good after Adam and Eve were created, all good must have included some very nasty demons, as per 2 Peter 2:4 For if GOD spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement.

* Which begs us to ask how Adam was the first to bring into the world when the serpent was obviously a sinner before Adam.

Third: What proof is there that they were not sinners? Everything was very good? But this everything included a lawbreaking evil serpent and presumably others like him? And are not both the serpent and Adam and Eve called `rm, a word used to refer to the crafty evil of the serpent AND used to refer to Adam and Eve as naked! It is the same word! Naked is a biblical metaphor for evil as many verses imply. If their eyes were merely opened to being unclothed then where is their shame since because being unclothed as GOD made you in your own garden is not a sin! In Hebrew, naked and subtle in cunning are homonyms...one word, two meanings.

Then to use 1:31 to refer to the state of righteousness of everything created we miss the fact this was a REPAIRED bit of un-goodness, Gen 2:18 The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.” yet in theological terms this is overlooked or outright ignored as it shows very good can refer to a repaired bad or imply a purpose for a repairing a badness such as the sinful state of HIS elect good seed, typified by Adam and Eve.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
ttruscot, you said:

No Sir, I do not claim anyone was made a sinner especially if made is to mean created.

So do you think that God created mankind upright?:

"This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes"
(Eccl.7:29).
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS< you said:


Let's back up, you blithering idiot.

1. You accused me of not loving others based on how I have spoken to you.

2. I then asked you if Jesus loved the Pharisees or if Paul loved Elymus.

The Lord Jesus loves all people but sometimes it was necessary for him to chasten some, even in some cases those who are believers (1 Cor.11:23).
 

JudgeRightly

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I promise I'll answer that question, if you can tell me how someone who is in Christ is not abiding in Christ?

"Being in" and "abiding in" are two different very different concepts, though they are related.

I think you've (perhaps unintentionally) conflated the two, and I want to help you correct that, or perhaps find out that my perspective is wrong.

So if a believer, someone who has placed their faith in Christ and who is sealed by the Holy Spirit, is not abiding in Christ, can he sin?

Remember, abide simply means to act in accordance with, and doesn't necessarily imply position or location.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
"Being in" and "abiding in" are two different very different concepts, though they are related.

I think you've (perhaps unintentionally) conflated the two, and I want to help you correct that, or perhaps find out that my perspective is wrong.

So if a believer, someone who has placed their faith in Christ and who is sealed by the Holy Spirit, is not abiding in Christ, can he sin?

Remember, abide simply means to act in accordance with, and doesn't necessarily imply position or location.
Can you share with me how the Bible makes a distinction between the two? Specifically, how does someone who has been crucified with Christ (no longer lives, but Christ lives in them), raised with Christ (a new creation in Christ), one spirit with Him, and seated in Him in heavenly places, not abide μένω in Him?

μένω (meno) to remain; in reference to place - not to depart; to continue to be present; to be held, kept, continually; to remain as one, not to become another or different.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
The Lord Jesus loves all people but sometimes it was necessary for him to chasten some, even in some cases those who are believers (1 Cor.11:23).
(y) As is the case with Paul, and with me. So, when you say things that are false, opposed to the gospel, anti-Christ, and I rebuke you with name-calling, just like Jesus or Paul did, it is an act of love towards you and for the benefit of those whom you are leading astray.
 

JudgeRightly

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Can you share with me how the Bible makes a distinction between the two? . . .

μένω (meno) to remain; in reference to place - not to depart; to continue to be present; to be held, kept, continually; to remain as one, not to become another or different.

1 John 3:6

Strong's g3306

- Lexical: μένω
- Transliteration: menó
- Part of Speech: Verb
- Phonetic Spelling: men'-o
- Definition: to remain, abide, stay, wait; with acc: to wait for, await.
- Origin: A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy).
- Usage: abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
- Translated as (count): abides (20), abiding (13), Abide (10), remain (8), He stayed (5), to remain (4), He abides (3), remains (3), to abide (3), He remained (2), it remained (2), let him abide (2), remaining (2), should abide (2), should remain (2), they stayed (2), to stay (2), we stayed (2), you abide (2), an abiding (1), are You staying (1), await (1), did abide (1), did it remain (1), dwelling (1), Dwelt (1), enduring (1), he remains (1), I abide (1), I will remain (1), it abide (1), it would have remained (1), let abide (1), let her remain (1), let it abide (1), might stand (1), remained (1), she should remain (1), they abide (1), they should remain (1), they would have remained (1), waited for (1), we abide (1), will abide (1), will remain (1), would remain (1), you shall abide (1), you will abide (1).

VS

2 Corinthians 5:17

Strong's g1722

- Lexical: ἐν
- Transliteration: en
- Part of Speech: Preposition
- Phonetic Spelling: en
- Definition: in, on, at, by, with.
- Origin: A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. A relation of rest (intermediate between eis and ek); "in," at, (up-)on, by, etc..
- Usage: about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-)by (+ all means), for (... Sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-)in(-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-)on, (open-)ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, (speedi-)ly, X that, X there(-in, -on), through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), under, when, where(-with), while, with(-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) preposition.
- Translated as (count): in (2177), with (130), among (125), by (111), on (73), At (41), into (26), within (16), during (11), through (10), to (10), as (5), under (3), along (2), as to (2), because of (2), besides (2), in regard to (2), throughout (2), wherein (2), while (2), afterward (1), amid (1), amidst (1), before (1), between (1), But in (1), For (1), in all (1), in the (1), in the midst of (1), of (1), outwardly (1), the in (1), toward (1), until (1), When (1), With respect to (1), with the (1).

Specifically, how does someone who has been crucified with Christ (no longer lives, but Christ lives in them), raised with Christ (a new creation in Christ), one spirit with Him, and seated in Him in heavenly places, not abide μένω in Him?

Hate to say this, but the problem with me answering this question of yours is that it answers my question by showing that such is possible, which defeats the purpose of me asking you the question in the first place. Let me see if we can find a flaw in your position by going step by step.

Your position is that when someone becomes a Christian, they can no longer sin, correct?
 

OZOS

Well-known member
1 John 3:6

Strong's g3306

- Lexical: μένω
- Transliteration: menó
- Part of Speech: Verb
- Phonetic Spelling: men'-o
- Definition: to remain, abide, stay, wait; with acc: to wait for, await.
- Origin: A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy).
- Usage: abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
- Translated as (count): abides (20), abiding (13), Abide (10), remain (8), He stayed (5), to remain (4), He abides (3), remains (3), to abide (3), He remained (2), it remained (2), let him abide (2), remaining (2), should abide (2), should remain (2), they stayed (2), to stay (2), we stayed (2), you abide (2), an abiding (1), are You staying (1), await (1), did abide (1), did it remain (1), dwelling (1), Dwelt (1), enduring (1), he remains (1), I abide (1), I will remain (1), it abide (1), it would have remained (1), let abide (1), let her remain (1), let it abide (1), might stand (1), remained (1), she should remain (1), they abide (1), they should remain (1), they would have remained (1), waited for (1), we abide (1), will abide (1), will remain (1), would remain (1), you shall abide (1), you will abide (1).

VS

2 Corinthians 5:17

Strong's g1722

- Lexical: ἐν
- Transliteration: en
- Part of Speech: Preposition
- Phonetic Spelling: en
- Definition: in, on, at, by, with.
- Origin: A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. A relation of rest (intermediate between eis and ek); "in," at, (up-)on, by, etc..
- Usage: about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-)by (+ all means), for (... Sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-)in(-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-)on, (open-)ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, (speedi-)ly, X that, X there(-in, -on), through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), under, when, where(-with), while, with(-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) preposition.
- Translated as (count): in (2177), with (130), among (125), by (111), on (73), At (41), into (26), within (16), during (11), through (10), to (10), as (5), under (3), along (2), as to (2), because of (2), besides (2), in regard to (2), throughout (2), wherein (2), while (2), afterward (1), amid (1), amidst (1), before (1), between (1), But in (1), For (1), in all (1), in the (1), in the midst of (1), of (1), outwardly (1), the in (1), toward (1), until (1), When (1), With respect to (1), with the (1).



Hate to say this, but the problem with me answering this question of yours is that it answers my question by showing that such is possible, which defeats the purpose of me asking you the question in the first place. Let me see if we can find a flaw in your position by going step by step.

Your position is that when someone becomes a Christian, they can no longer sin, correct?
Please understand, my friend, I'm not trying to avoid your question, but I have to make certain that when we use terms, we are in agreement on what they mean. I'm not seeing a definition of abide in the way you defined it "to act in accordance with". And, I don't know what it means to you when you use the word "Christian" or how you would define "sin". Most those, I am in disagreement with, do not define the words Christian or sin the way I see them defined in the Bible. I really don't find many people on here who have a fundamental understanding of what salvation is. And when I says "what salvation is", I don't mean that they don't know HOW someone is saved, but they don't know what it is.

Without these clarifications being established, we could be discussing two different things.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS said:
Can you share with me how the Bible makes a distinction between the two? Specifically, how does someone who has been crucified with Christ (no longer lives, but Christ lives in them), raised with Christ (a new creation in Christ), one spirit with Him, and seated in Him in heavenly places, not abide μένω in Him?

μένω (meno) to remain; in reference to place - not to depart; to continue to be present; to be held, kept, continually; to remain as one, not to become another or different.

The Lord Jesus said the following to believers;

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me" (Jn.15;40.

Evidently those who are eternally secure can cease to "abide"in the Lord Jesus so He himself makes a distinction. This is about being in fellowship with him. He told believers the following:

"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 Jn.1;5-60.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
The Lord Jesus said the following to believers;

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me" (Jn.15;40.
Talking to you is like speaking to a pile of dung.

You don't understand one thing about the verse you quoted.
You don't know what salvation is.
You don't know what the gospel is.
You don't know Jesus from Adam.
You have a demon.
You are a child of Satan.

For everyone else...

The verse, in no way, makes any distinction or claim that someone who is abiding in Christ can cease to abide. It is an invitation to abide. Seriously, that is all that Jesus is saying... Abide in me, and if you don't abide in me, you cannot bear fruit.

I am amazed at how stupid you really are, and that you lack the capacity to comprehend such a simple statement. You really have no business speaking to anyone about the Bible, because you are only capable of lying against the truth and you look like a complete fool.


"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin"

Once again, you prove yourself completely inept in reading God's word.

First of all, the apostle John begins his letter defending his apostleship, so that those, to whom he is writing will know that he has fellowship with the father and if they have fellowship with the father, then they can have fellowship with John.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us, That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

John goes on to make certain that they know that those who have fellowship with God, DO NOT walk in darkness. Now, a godless pervert, like you, is so brainwashed into believing that when you see the word "fellowship", you equate it with two different people interacting independently with each other, but that is a false premise, based on your adherence to doctrines of demons, rather than God's word and the gospel. Those who are in fellowship with God, are born of the spirit, born of God, a new creation in Christ, having been crucified with Christ, and they no longer live, but Christ is their life. They CANNOT walk in darkness, and this is exactly what John is saying. If he were to claim he has fellowship with the father and then walk in darkness, he is a liar and does not tell the truth. He would be like you, because you have no fellowship with the Father.

“I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

“…to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.” Acts 26:18

“…for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light” Eph 5:8

“For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son” Col 1:13

“But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness” 1 Thess 5:4-5

The very life of God dwells in those who are saved. They are in the Light, and the Light is them. They are not in darkness, cannot walk in darkness, and shall never be in darkness.

1 John 1:6

“If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:”

This is not difficult to understand. If you are not saved (in darkness), then you are not in fellowship with God, and if you say you are in fellowship, then you're lying. There is no verse in the Bible that declares that believers can walk in darkness. Not a single one. Those who have been told that have been lied to, by liars like you. Those who are in Christ are in the light, just as He is in the light. If John and those with John (we) were to say that they have fellowship with God, but were in darkness, they would be liars, and not to be believed. John is making known to his readers that those who have seduced them are in darkness, having denied that Jesus has come in the flesh.

"These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you." 1 John 2:26

1 John 1:7

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

Here is the crux of John's message, and it is clear that to be in fellowship with God that you are "in the light" as He is "in the light" and the result has been that you are cleansed of all sin.

As John explains later... "And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin."

You cannot be in sin and in Jesus. It is impossible. Those who teach that you can move in & out of fellowship also believe that you move in & out of light, in & out of life, and in & out of Christ! That is a doctrine of demons, and one that paralyzes believers into a fear of having any hope that God loves them and that He sustains or keeps them.

Notice that John affirms that those who are in the light have been cleansed from all sin. If someone has been cleansed from all sin, they are in fellowship with those who have also been cleansed from all sin. They are not in fellowship with those who deny that they have sin that needs to be cleansed. If John was claiming he had no sin to be cleansed, then they could not have fellowship with John. Again, John is exposing those who had seduced his readers.

1 John 1:8

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”

If John were saying the same thing as those who say they have no sin that needs to be cleansed, then John would be deceived and have no truth in Him. Obviously, John is not saying that those who have been cleansed from all sin are lying. if they say they have no sin, for they have been cleansed. You cannot say you have something if you just had it removed. No, John is saying that those who say they have no sin that needs to be cleansed are lying and deceiving themselves. They are denying the One who shed His blood for our sins. EITHER you've been cleansed OR you have not. Those who have fully agreed with God their need to have their sin cleansed, are telling the truth. Those who have rejected their need to be cleansed, and the One who is just to cleanse them, have no truth in them. They have rejected the gospel, just like you.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
SOZO said:

"The verse, in no way, makes any distinction or claim that someone who is abiding in Christ can cease to abide. It is an invitation to abide. Seriously, that is all that Jesus is saying... Abide in me, and if you don't abide in me, you cannot bear fruit."


If SOzo had a brain he would be dsngerous. He said the verse is an invition to abide, which means that even though they were already branches in the vine which is Christ, as the following verse demonstrates:

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing"
(jn.15:5).

So since they are already branches which are in the vine which is Christ then we must throw our reason to the wind if SOZOs is right that the following verse the Lord Jesus is merely speaking of an "invitation to abide:

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me" (Jn.15;4).

the Lord Jesus is telling them to continue to abide in Him because bearing fruit apart from Him is impossible.

According to the brainless one even though they are already branches which made up the Vine the Lord Jesus is inviting them to abide in Him !

You can't fix stupid.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
SOZOS wrote:

" 1 John 1:8

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”

If John were saying the same thing as those who say they have no sin that needs to be cleansed, then John would be deceived and have no truth in Him. Obviously, John is not saying that those who have been cleansed from all sin are lying. if they say they have no sin, for they have been cleansed. You cannot say you have something if you just had it removed. No, John is saying that those who say they have no sin that needs to be cleansed are lying and deceiving themselves. They are denying the One who shed His blood for our sins. EITHER you've been cleansed OR you have not. Those who have fully agreed with God their need to have their sin cleansed, are telling the truth. Those who have rejected their need to be cleansed, and the One who is just to cleanse them, have no truth in them. They have rejected the gospel, just like you.


According to the brainless one those whim John is addressing have rejected the gospel and are not saved. But he should consider what he said later to these same people:

"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake" (1 Jn.2:12).

Perhaps SOZOs will explain how these people had their sins forgiven since according to him, they rejected the gospel.

ZOZOS also says that those who have been born of God cannot sin but the following words are addressed to those who have had their sins forgiven and have obviously been born of God:

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"
(1 Jn.1;8).

Sozo refuses to answer the question, "Have you sinned since you were saved and were born of GOD?"

i suspect he belongs to a cult which teaches that believers cannot sin and he doesn't want us to know he belongs to that cult so he refuses to answer, proving that the truth is not in him.




 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
yourpoint? said:

"It's unctuous for people to proclaim the love of God, yet believe that some babies die and go to eternal damnation because Adam sinned; however, that's where Schreiner's teaching of original sin leads."


EXACTLY!
 
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