The Theory of Original Sin

OZOS

Active member
i already addressed that verse and you know it.shame that you refuse to answer why John would tell those born of God to confess their sins if they had no sins to confess:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn.1:7-8).

I have never "refused to answer", and once again, YOU are blatantly lying on this site. Shame that you are not held accountable. I have answered that question several times. Most recently in post #55 and in post #42, so when you say I have "not answered", you, like your father the devil, are a liar.

As for Zane Hidges, he has much more credibility as a teacher of the word of God than you will ever have.
Not hardly, :LOL: and thanks again for admitting that you worship Zane Hodges and not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Prove that you actually understand qhat John wrote at 1 John 1:7 if you can.
Already have, more than once, but you are either too stupid or too lazy to read it.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
As I have demonstrated the following words of John are addressed to those who are born of God:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn.1:7-8).

Why would John tell these people who have been born of God thta they need to confess their sins if you are right and those born of God cannot sin?
 

OZOS

Active member
As I have demonstrated the following words of John are addressed to those who are born of God:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn.1:7-8).

Why would John tell these people who have been born of God thta they need to confess their sins if you are right and those born of God cannot sin?
Already answered this TWICE, and I've already told you I've answered TWICE.

Now you have been told again. So, for you to ask me again, makes you look like a complete idiot.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS insists that those born of God cannot sin. But let us look at Peter and see if he sinned after he was born of God. First, when we compare Matthew 16:16 to 1 John 5;1-5 it becoes clear that Peter was born of God. And here is what the Apostle Paul said about the behavior of Peter at one point in time:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-140.

According to Paul both Peter and Barnabus walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel and Peter was to be blamed.

There can be no doubt that Peter was born of God and he sinned. But OZOS continues to insist that those born of God cannot sin and he refuses to answer if he has sinned since he has been saved and born of God.

What is he trying to hide?
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS, here is your pitiful answer to the following words of John written to those born of God:

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness “

You wrote: "To confess is to agree with God or to say the same as God would say concerning our sin. Just as the tax collector in the temple confessed he a was sinner asking for God's mercy, so do all those who know that they have sin that needs to be taken away. However, only God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

John is telling those born of God to confess their sins right there and then and upon confession thy will be clesansed from all unrighteousness. This hs nothing to do with the tax collector in the Temple because he wasn't born of God. And the wor s of John were written to those born of God. And his following words confirm that t they had sinned:

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."(1 Jn.1:10).

If those who were born of God had not sinned since being born of God then why would John tell them to confess those sins?

According to your silly ideas John was telling them to confess sins which didn't exist.
 

OZOS

Active member
OZOS insists that those born of God cannot sin.
No, you lying pile of crap. GOD's word says it. I just quoted GOD's word. So, you you can call God a "liar" all you want, but I only saidw hat God says, and you say the opposite.

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6

"Those who are born of God do sin" - Jerry Shugart.

How you can possibly claim to be a Christian, and blatantly call God a liar, is astounding, but you have now done it over and over again.
You are a child of Satan.

There can be no doubt that Peter was born of God and he sinned. But OZOS continues to insist that those born of God cannot sin and he refuses to answer if he has sinned since he has been saved and born of God.

What is he trying to hide?
You are 100% full of crap. I have answered this question MUTIPLE times, but you don't read my posts, because you are full of yourself, which again, is nothing but crap.
 
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OZOS

Active member
OZOS, here is your pitiful answer to the following words of John written to those born of God:

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness “

You wrote: "To confess is to agree with God or to say the same as God would say concerning our sin. Just as the tax collector in the temple confessed he a was sinner asking for God's mercy, so do all those who know that they have sin that needs to be taken away. However, only God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

John is telling those born of God to confess their sins right there and then and upon confession thy will be clesansed from all unrighteousness. This hs nothing to do with the tax collector in the Temple because he wasn't born of God. And the wor s of John were written to those born of God. And his following words confirm that t they had sinned:

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."(1 Jn.1:10).

If those who were born of God had not sinned since being born of God then why would John tell them to confess those sins?

According to your silly ideas John was telling them to confess sins which didn't exist.
You're a bona-fide moron.

Any 6 year old understands that only those who say that don't have something, when they do have something, are those who need to confess they have something. Logic 101. But again, you're a moron. John is addressing those who would say they have no sin (vs 8), not those who admit they have sin and have been cleansed of all sin (vs 7). Only someone who has not confessed that they have sin, has not been cleansed. Those who have confessed they have sin, have been cleansed. This is the most simple set of verses in the entire Bible, and only a idiot with crap for brains (YOU) fails to understand it.
 
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OZOS

Active member
If those who were born of God had not sinned since being born of God then why would John tell them to confess those sins?
He doesn't, you retard. He tells those who say they have no sin (vs 8) to confess that they have sin. That is why verse 9 follows verse 8.

NO ONE IN THE WORLD IS AS STUPID AS YOU.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS wrote:

Any 6 year old understands that only those who say that don't have something, when they do have something, are those who need to confess they have something. Logic 101. But again, you're a moron. John is addressing those who would say they have no sin (vs 8), not those who admit they have sin and have been cleansed of all sin (vs 7). Only someone who has not confessed that they have sin, has not been cleansed. Those who have confessed they have sin, have been cleansed. This is the most simple set of verses in the entire Bible, and only a idiot with crap for brains (YOU) fails to understand it.


Remember, the following words were addressed to those who were born of God and already saved:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn.1:7-8).

In regard to this verse you said, "only those who say that don't have something, when they do have something, are those who need to confess they have something. Logic 101.

According to your twisted logic these believers didn't think they had sinned despite the fact that John told them the following:

"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake"
(1 Jn.2:12).

They had received the remissoion of sins when they first believedthat the Lord Jesus is the Christ:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).

So it defies common sense to assert that believers say that they didn't ever sin. But the initial belief in the Son is in regard to salvation issues and that in regard to salvation the sins of believers will not be imputed to them (Ro.4:8).

But the subject John is discussing being in "fellowship" with the Lord (1 Jn1:.3).

Despite the fact that believer's sins are not imputed to them in regard to salvation sin does defile the sinner. And it also defiles the believer and that sin breaks the fellowship with the Lord. Jihn tells the believer how to restore that fellowship:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn.1:7-8).

Then the words which follow are directed at people like you who say that they no longer sin since they were born of God:

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:10).

Paul tells those born of God the following;

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Ro.12:1).

Once a believer sins he becomes defiled and the only way for him to present his body to the Lord as holy is to confess that sin and by doing that he will be cleansed from all unrighteousnes.

if you think that you can effectively serve the Lord by denying your sins you refusing to confess those sins then you are delusional. Confessing our sins is the same thing as judging ourselves and Paul says the following about that:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11;31-32).
 

OZOS

Active member
Remember, the following words were addressed to those who were born of God and already saved:
"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6

"Those who are born of God do sin" - Jerry Shugart.

"For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” - God

"You will not surely die." Jerry Shugart, and his father the serpent.

""He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

Proof positive that Jerry is a child of Satan.
 
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OZOS

Active member
Remember, the following words were addressed to those who were born of God and already saved:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn.1:7-8).
No, you braindead pervert, these words were addressed TO those who were being deceived by false teachers like you. Again, you rip verses out of context to support your anti-Christ cult..

"These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you." 1 John 2:26

Those who were trying to deceive them were claiming that Jesus had not come in the flesh.

"By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world." 1 John 4:2-3

Those who denied that Jesus Christ has not come in the flesh were also those who were saying they have no sin. John is telling those, whom he is writing, that he has seen and heard, and touched Him.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ." 1 John 1:1-3

John is writing his letter and defending his apostleship, confirming that Jesus HAS come in the flesh. That He has seen, heard, and touched Him.
John says that he is declaring this to them, so that they know that he is not a liar, but has been sent by God, so that they can have fellowship with one another.

Again, he is writing these things because he is concerned about those who are trying to deceive them. They, the false teachers, were in darkness, not in the light. John is affirming that those who are in darkness cannot fellowship with those in the light. John then affirms that if he was to claim to be in fellowship with God, and yet was walking in darkness, he would also be a liar, like those who are trying to deceive them. Those who are in the light have fellowship with God and are cleansed of ALL sin.

When a person is cleansed of ALL sin, then they have no sin (duh), yet, YOU the demon possessed fraud and liar, claim that the blood of Jesus "does not" cleanse from all sin, and those who are in the light still have sin, thus calling the blood of Jesus "worthless".

The false teachers are claiming that they have no sin that needs to be cleansed. Obviously (to any thinking person) if you have been cleansed of all sin, you are not lying if you say you have no sin, you are lying if you say you still have sin, and you are calling the blood of Jesus "unclean". ONLY those who have not been cleansed and claim they have no sin, are lying when they say they have no sin. Very, very simple, except to a pervert, like you.

So, then John affirms that those who confess that they have sin, are the ones who are cleansed, by the blood of Jesus of all unrighteousness. Jesus is confirmed to be their ONLY advocate.

YOU twist and pervert the Bible to strip the Lord Jesus Christ of His propitiatory sacrifice.

The rest of your rambling has nothing to do with anything I said. Because you are a pervert, you make-up things that no one ever said, and add your own words to their words, just like you add and take away from God's word. You will go to hell, you anti-Christ pervert. Count on it.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
John told those who were already born of God the following;

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 Jn.1:7-8).

According to OZOS' silly ideas John was wrong for thinking that these born of God had sins which needed to be remitted.

Of course OZOS is right and John was in error. OZOS stll has not provoded any answer to 1 John 1;7-8 that makes any sense. But what else could be expect fro,m a natural man like him:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.12:14).
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS insists that those born of God cannot sin. But let us look at Peter and see if he sinned after he was born of God. First, when we compare Matthew 16:16 to 1 John 5;1-5 it becoes clear that Peter was born of God. And here is what the Apostle Paul said about the behavior of Peter at one point in time:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:11-140.

According to Paul both Peter and Barnabus walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel and Peter was to be blamed.

There can be no doubt that Peter was born of God and he sinned. But OZOS completely IGNORES these facts.
 

OZOS

Active member
OZOS insists that those born of God cannot sin.
That's because I agree with the Bible, while you serve Satan.

The apostle John writes...

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

The pervert Jerry, calls God a "liar", when he says...
Those who are born of God do sin"
Jerry should burn all those fake books he wrote, cause he is clearly a fraud, who pretends he believes in God, when he is obviously out to deceive people, and turn them away from Jesus.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS, did Peter sin or not? Of course he did and he was born of God. i answered 1 John 5;18 but you haven't addressed what Paul said about Peter.

If those born of God cannot sin then why does Paul tell them the following?:

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God " (2 COr.7:1).

Once a person believes he has his sins remitted or taken away:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).

Why would Paul tell those born of God to cleanse them themselves of all filthiness of the flesh and spirit if it is impossible for them to sin?

Of course I do not expect an answer and I no longer expect an answer about what Paul said about Peter.

Do you never tire of embarrassing yourself? You need to flee the cult to which you belong that teaches that Christians cannot sin and confess your sins. Otherwise you will remain defiled.
 

OZOS

Active member
The apostle John writes...

"We know that whoever is born of God does not sin" 1 John 3:9
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 5:18
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 1 John 3:6
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning." 1 John 3:8

The pervert Jerry, calls God a "liar", when he says...
Jerry Shugart said:
Those who are born of God do sin"

Do you never tire of embarrassing yourself? You need to flee the cult to which you belong that teaches that those who are born of God can sin.

Why do you hate God's word?
Why do you call Jesus a liar?
Why do you repeatedly deny that the apostle John says that those who are born of God cannot and do not sin?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS, do you really think you are fooling anyone into thinking that you actually addressed what Paul said about Peter?

I answered 1 Jn. 5:18 by quoting a well known Biblical scholar. Plesase quote any well known scholar who agrees with what you say about 1 John 5:18 if you can.
 

OZOS

Active member
I answered 1 Jn. 5:18 by quoting a well known Biblical scholar. Plesase quote any well known scholar who agrees with what you say about 1 John 5:18 if you can.
I worship the Lord Jesus Christ and believe God's word.
You worship "Bible scholars" and reject God's word.

I have already addressed the sin issue, in full, and that context is king. You ignore context and foolishly run to and fro looking for teachers to tickle your ears, all the while ignoring context. When sin is mentioned in the Bible, the context will reveal as to what sin we are discussing, whether it be lawlessness (behavior) or that which is not of faith (unbelief).

You are such an inept student of the Bible and the gospel, that you fail to rightly divide the word of truth.
 
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