Interplanner
Well-known member
btw, STP, my compliments for being consistent enough to know you are 2P2P. RD doesn't realize it.
ECT The New Covenant de-complicated for 2P2P-ers
- Thread starter Interplanner
- Start date
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Can the New be in force if the Old is still in force?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I am 3p3p because the Bible teaches 3 inheritances.
Apparently, IP is C3PO'd - at ya :chuckle:
Interplanner
Well-known member
Don't you realize that one of the characteristics of what you do is to continually make distinctions and separations where the NT is merging or joining things? There are no 3 inheritances for 3 groups in Eph 3:6 and context, and that letter is the widest circulated 'publication' of Paul. There is no dividing Jew from Gentile in Hebrews either, instead, the force is the other direction.
You guys do this INCESSANTLY.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Do you not realize that the Holy Bible plainly shows the land as an inheritance, the Holy City as an inheritance, and the heavens as an inheritance. Find out where you fit, and let God fill the whole universe with his people.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, much like how Lamont was constantly miffed at Fred.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
"Inheritance" is not a code word for "justification."
That blessing of grace is found only in the Person of Jesus Christ. There is salvation in no other.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:freak:
Right Divider
Body part
You can't argue code words with Mr. CodeWords.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I have no idea what Nang's point was.
Right Divider
Body part
They think if you take the Bible naturally (literal, unless obviously otherwise), that you're not "getting it".
There are so many here like that.
"And the beast that was and is not is even the eighth and is one of the seven and shall go into destruction.
12 And the ten horns which thou seeist are ten kings which have received no kingdom but shall receive power as kings at one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind and shall give their power and strength unto ye beast.
14 These shall fight with the lamb and the lamb shall overcome them: For he is Lord of lords and king of kings: and they that are on his side are called and chosen and faithfull." Revelation 17: 11-14
This all becomes complicated with the woman, who is Mystery Babylon the Great, or false religion, kings. horns, and the beast. Yet Revelation 17: 11 makes sense when it is seen as describing spiritual states. The beast that was and is not, he is the eighth, that is, in the eighth spiritual condition, and is of the seventh spiritual condition, and goes into destruction for going out of the seventh spiritual condition and into the eighth condition.
Revelation 17: 10-11 can be seen as being about the 6,7 and 8 cycle of spiritual conditions of man in relation to salvation. The sixth state is implied.
Genesis 1: 27; "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Genesis 1: 31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
God created man on the sixth day. Unredeemed man is of the sixth day, that is of the implied sixth spiritual state in Revelation 17: 11.
Then in Genesis 2: 2-3, "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."
God's rest, into which man can enter is the seventh day rest.
Hebrews 4: 9-11 says "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
Entering into God's rest is the seventh day rest and is the spiritual state of being in salvation.
Grace is Christ's influence upon our inner life to change it so we can accept Christ's rest, which is spiritual life that raises us up out of the spiritual death of the sixth spiritual state.
There are other ways of looking at "...the beast that was and is not is even the eighth and is one of the seven and shall go into destruction."
In Daniel 2: there are four kingdoms of men, the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman kingdoms. Before these four there were two kingdoms which also interacted with Israel,Egypt and Assyria, making six kingdoms of men before the seventh kingdom of God appeared.
Daniel 2: 44 says "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."
The sixth kingdom of man before Christ appears during the sixth kingdom, Rome, symbolize man in the sixth state.
Although there was a remnant of Old Covenant Israel mentioned in Hebrews 11, the Old Covenant can be seen to represent spiritual death. Paul says in II Corinthians 3: 7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:"
Christ came to offer his people Israel spiritual life in him, which is the seventh state of salvation, and Paul in Romans 10: 12 and in Galatians 3: 28 affirms that Gentiles who became saved in Christ were no different in Christ from those of the physical bloodline.
In Ephesians 2: 11-13 "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
The Gentiles who were said to have been aliens from Israel are made close by the blood of Christ.
The implication of Ephesians 2: 12-13 is that having been aliens from Israel, Gentiles are made close to Israel by the blood of Christ.
Separation Theology would insist that Ephesians 2: 12-13 cannot mean that Gentiles are made close to Israel, which is redeemed Israel in Luke 1: 68 - the fulfillment of Jeremiah 18: 1-6 as Israel remade by God.
Since Old Covenant Israel can represent spiritual death then is not separation theology or dispensationalism not importing that spiritual condition from Old Covenant Israel to another group in not including saved Gentiles in redeemed Israel?
"But if the ministration of death written and engraven in stone, was glorious...." II Corinthians 3: 7
Church is a translation from ekklesia which means assembly, meeting or congregation, a common noun, and Israel or reedeemed Israel, is a proper noun. So a congregation, from ekklesia, could be just a meeting or congregation of some of those of redeemed Israel.
Going out of the 7th spiritual state of salvation into the eighth state would be going out of salvation. A way of leaving the state of salvation is through falling into some kind of unbelief, including accepting another Gospel or set of false doctrines. Did the Catholic Church then move out of the seventh state of salvation into a state like returning to the sixth state of unbelief because it created another Gospel.
Interestingly, Revelation 18: 23 describes just such a situation in which the light of a candle and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride which were once heard are heard no more in "Babylon."
12 And the ten horns which thou seeist are ten kings which have received no kingdom but shall receive power as kings at one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind and shall give their power and strength unto ye beast.
14 These shall fight with the lamb and the lamb shall overcome them: For he is Lord of lords and king of kings: and they that are on his side are called and chosen and faithfull." Revelation 17: 11-14
This all becomes complicated with the woman, who is Mystery Babylon the Great, or false religion, kings. horns, and the beast. Yet Revelation 17: 11 makes sense when it is seen as describing spiritual states. The beast that was and is not, he is the eighth, that is, in the eighth spiritual condition, and is of the seventh spiritual condition, and goes into destruction for going out of the seventh spiritual condition and into the eighth condition.
Revelation 17: 10-11 can be seen as being about the 6,7 and 8 cycle of spiritual conditions of man in relation to salvation. The sixth state is implied.
Genesis 1: 27; "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
Genesis 1: 31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
God created man on the sixth day. Unredeemed man is of the sixth day, that is of the implied sixth spiritual state in Revelation 17: 11.
Then in Genesis 2: 2-3, "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."
God's rest, into which man can enter is the seventh day rest.
Hebrews 4: 9-11 says "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
Entering into God's rest is the seventh day rest and is the spiritual state of being in salvation.
Grace is Christ's influence upon our inner life to change it so we can accept Christ's rest, which is spiritual life that raises us up out of the spiritual death of the sixth spiritual state.
There are other ways of looking at "...the beast that was and is not is even the eighth and is one of the seven and shall go into destruction."
In Daniel 2: there are four kingdoms of men, the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman kingdoms. Before these four there were two kingdoms which also interacted with Israel,Egypt and Assyria, making six kingdoms of men before the seventh kingdom of God appeared.
Daniel 2: 44 says "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."
The sixth kingdom of man before Christ appears during the sixth kingdom, Rome, symbolize man in the sixth state.
Although there was a remnant of Old Covenant Israel mentioned in Hebrews 11, the Old Covenant can be seen to represent spiritual death. Paul says in II Corinthians 3: 7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:"
Christ came to offer his people Israel spiritual life in him, which is the seventh state of salvation, and Paul in Romans 10: 12 and in Galatians 3: 28 affirms that Gentiles who became saved in Christ were no different in Christ from those of the physical bloodline.
In Ephesians 2: 11-13 "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
The Gentiles who were said to have been aliens from Israel are made close by the blood of Christ.
The implication of Ephesians 2: 12-13 is that having been aliens from Israel, Gentiles are made close to Israel by the blood of Christ.
Separation Theology would insist that Ephesians 2: 12-13 cannot mean that Gentiles are made close to Israel, which is redeemed Israel in Luke 1: 68 - the fulfillment of Jeremiah 18: 1-6 as Israel remade by God.
Since Old Covenant Israel can represent spiritual death then is not separation theology or dispensationalism not importing that spiritual condition from Old Covenant Israel to another group in not including saved Gentiles in redeemed Israel?
"But if the ministration of death written and engraven in stone, was glorious...." II Corinthians 3: 7
Church is a translation from ekklesia which means assembly, meeting or congregation, a common noun, and Israel or reedeemed Israel, is a proper noun. So a congregation, from ekklesia, could be just a meeting or congregation of some of those of redeemed Israel.
Going out of the 7th spiritual state of salvation into the eighth state would be going out of salvation. A way of leaving the state of salvation is through falling into some kind of unbelief, including accepting another Gospel or set of false doctrines. Did the Catholic Church then move out of the seventh state of salvation into a state like returning to the sixth state of unbelief because it created another Gospel.
Interestingly, Revelation 18: 23 describes just such a situation in which the light of a candle and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride which were once heard are heard no more in "Babylon."
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Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Not one of the seven, but of the seven.
The ten horns hate the harlot and burn her with fire.
Looks like Europe destroys the RCC and her friends.
LA
Not one of the seven, but of the seven.
The ten horns hate the harlot and burn her with fire.
Looks like Europe destroys the RCC and her friends.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
Acts 3 says if you don't do what Messiah wanted (his mission in that generation) you would be extirpated: disinherited. The 'holy city' of Hebrews is above (same with Gal 4). There is a NHNE coming when all of this kind is destroyed, but many features of it are not as physical as now know in this world.
You always bring up the city, but never switch to the fact that it is 'above and free' in both Hebrews and Gal.
The Redemptive 6, 7 and 8 Spiritual Cycle and Acts 8: 32-33
"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17: 11
In Acts 8: 32-38 Philip was called by God to go help a a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians in a chariot who was trying to understand Isaiah 53: 7-8.
"And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33. In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35. Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37. And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."
When the man of Ethiopia was reading Isaiah 53: 7-8 he did not understand it because he was then in the spiritual state of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14, who cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God. He was in a spiritual state in which that which is spiritual cannot be understood. In the metaphor of Revelation 17: 10-11 the man of Ethiopia was in the sixth spiritual condition.
But when Philip, who had the Holy Spirit, opened Isaiah 53: 7-8 to him, he was transformed spiritually and moved into the seventh spiritual state, the Rest of God (Hebrews 4: 9), or the saved state, and in this state he was able to understand Isaiah 53:7-8, that Christ was stricken for the transgressions of his people, which was to include anyone who believed.
"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken."
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus” (Acts 8:5).
But if the man of Ethiopia had met a Pharisee from the the Sanhedrin, which arranged the death of Jesus who told the Ethiopian man that Isaiah 53: 7-8 refers to the Jewish people in a collective sense, and their various historical sufferings the Ethiopian man would never have been transformed from the sixth spiritual state to the seventh state of salvation. The Pharisee did not have the Holy Spirit and was also in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14.
Simon the Sorcerer might have climbed up in the chariot with the Ethiopian man to explain Isaiah 53: 7-8 to him. The sorcerer, who tried to buy the Holy Spirit from Peter and John, might have even mentioned Jesus, but his version of Jesus would not have been presented with the same authoritative certainty as Philip and likely the sorcerer would have added some false doctrines to his explanation of Isaiah 53.
Any false doctrine substituted for the Truth of the Gospel of Christ operates as an αντιθεσεις, anti-thesis, to the truth of God. An anti-thesis is an opposition to the thesis, the Truth from God. See the Greek in I Timothy 6: 20, εκτρεπομενος τας βεβηλους κενοφωνιας και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,. "avoiding the profane and empty babblings and ant-thesis of falsely called knowledge."
When the absolute Truth of God is in part replaced by false doctrines, then man's own addition or "improvement" on his being in God's seventh spiritual state of rest will be corrupted and in his "eighth" spiritual state man goes into destruction.
In John Chapter 8 the Pharisees were making a dialectical type of argument against the absolute Truth of Christ who was there with them. The Pharisees were in the Sixth Spiritual state of fallen man and arguing with Christ from that state.
"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father..........."
"Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God."
"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8: 43-44
Christ told the Pharisees that they could not hear his words because they were of Satan their Father. They were not in a spiritual condition to understand him..
The Pharisees could not hear Christ who was implying that they, the leaders of Talmudic Judaism and of the Old Covenant at that time, were no longer the chosen people.
The Pharisees in John 8 kept asserting to Christ himself that they were still the seed of Abraham, meaning the physical bloodline of the chosen people must still be in full effect. As the Truth of Christ's redemption of Israel and of opening up a pathway through himself to salvation emerged, the path of salvation moved through Christ himself only as the Saviour of Israel and as Savior of all people born again ion him.
"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Revelation 17: 11
In Acts 8: 32-38 Philip was called by God to go help a a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians in a chariot who was trying to understand Isaiah 53: 7-8.
"And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33. In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35. Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37. And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."
When the man of Ethiopia was reading Isaiah 53: 7-8 he did not understand it because he was then in the spiritual state of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14, who cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God. He was in a spiritual state in which that which is spiritual cannot be understood. In the metaphor of Revelation 17: 10-11 the man of Ethiopia was in the sixth spiritual condition.
But when Philip, who had the Holy Spirit, opened Isaiah 53: 7-8 to him, he was transformed spiritually and moved into the seventh spiritual state, the Rest of God (Hebrews 4: 9), or the saved state, and in this state he was able to understand Isaiah 53:7-8, that Christ was stricken for the transgressions of his people, which was to include anyone who believed.
"He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken."
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus” (Acts 8:5).
But if the man of Ethiopia had met a Pharisee from the the Sanhedrin, which arranged the death of Jesus who told the Ethiopian man that Isaiah 53: 7-8 refers to the Jewish people in a collective sense, and their various historical sufferings the Ethiopian man would never have been transformed from the sixth spiritual state to the seventh state of salvation. The Pharisee did not have the Holy Spirit and was also in the spiritual condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14.
Simon the Sorcerer might have climbed up in the chariot with the Ethiopian man to explain Isaiah 53: 7-8 to him. The sorcerer, who tried to buy the Holy Spirit from Peter and John, might have even mentioned Jesus, but his version of Jesus would not have been presented with the same authoritative certainty as Philip and likely the sorcerer would have added some false doctrines to his explanation of Isaiah 53.
Any false doctrine substituted for the Truth of the Gospel of Christ operates as an αντιθεσεις, anti-thesis, to the truth of God. An anti-thesis is an opposition to the thesis, the Truth from God. See the Greek in I Timothy 6: 20, εκτρεπομενος τας βεβηλους κενοφωνιας και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,. "avoiding the profane and empty babblings and ant-thesis of falsely called knowledge."
When the absolute Truth of God is in part replaced by false doctrines, then man's own addition or "improvement" on his being in God's seventh spiritual state of rest will be corrupted and in his "eighth" spiritual state man goes into destruction.
In John Chapter 8 the Pharisees were making a dialectical type of argument against the absolute Truth of Christ who was there with them. The Pharisees were in the Sixth Spiritual state of fallen man and arguing with Christ from that state.
"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father..........."
"Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God."
"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8: 43-44
Christ told the Pharisees that they could not hear his words because they were of Satan their Father. They were not in a spiritual condition to understand him..
The Pharisees could not hear Christ who was implying that they, the leaders of Talmudic Judaism and of the Old Covenant at that time, were no longer the chosen people.
The Pharisees in John 8 kept asserting to Christ himself that they were still the seed of Abraham, meaning the physical bloodline of the chosen people must still be in full effect. As the Truth of Christ's redemption of Israel and of opening up a pathway through himself to salvation emerged, the path of salvation moved through Christ himself only as the Saviour of Israel and as Savior of all people born again ion him.
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Right Divider
Body part
Rev 21:1-2 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (21:2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
What's your point?
Interplanner
Well-known member
It is not coming down in our world because it is part of the NHNE. How can you not see that that is part of the NHNE? It not going to pop down here, get destroyed, and then reappear in the NHNE. It is this idea that it needs to happen in human history, in Judea, in brick and mortar, that is insidious.
Right Divider
Body part
When did I said that it was NOT in the NHNE? The verses that I quote say just that! Are you that dumb?
What do you think that the NEW EARTH will be, a cartoon?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Great, but it has always sounded like you thought it was going to be another installment of Judaism in our history. It is not, and it will not have Judaic elements anyway.