The Gospel Verses Predestination

[MennoSota]

May I butt in?

You are asking a Calvinist if Paul had a free will. Calvinist believe that no one has a free will. They believe that we are just a bunch of dumb robots that can't think for themselves. This thinking dishonors God and insults his Son Jesus Christ.

LOL, you have no concept of Calvinism. You have presented your bitterness in this post.
If free-will existed, then humans would stand above God and dictate to God what they will do. God would be powerless to act. God would be a genie who responds to the wishes of his master...humankind.
But, thankfully, God is the supreme ruler over all things. No action within His creation takes place without God's sovereign ordination. When you choose, God says "yes" or God says "no." There is no action you take that is not ordained by God. Even the evil that takes place is allowed by God's patient ordination in accordance with His will for His good and perfect plan. An example of God's ordination over man is the story of Balaam. Balaam was paid by the kings around Canaan to go curse Israel. Every time Balaam attempted to bring a curse, God stopped him. God even caused blessings to come out of Balaam's mouth by God's providential will. Balaam could NOT willfully choose to curse Israel. Why? Because God's ordination and will is supreme over all. Men do not have a free-will that thwarts God's plan. God is not weak, like free-will philosophy proposes.
Humans are not robots. Humans are created beings who are under the Sovereign authority of God the King. Humans are not free. The Bible says we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. Freedom is not an option. God, by His mercy and through His gracious favor may free a person from slavery to sin, but the person is then made a slave to righteousness. As Paul says, we are bond-slaves to Christ Jesus.
RP, you fight desperately against the bit of God's amazing grace. You are still a slave to sin.

 

[Stripe]

What does predestination, election and God's choice mean to you? This is what God wrote through Paul:
Ephesians 1:4-6,11,14,18-23
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
[6]So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son.
[11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
[14]The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.
[18]I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the confident hope he has given to those he called—his holy people who are his rich and glorious inheritance.
[19]I also pray that you will understand the incredible greatness of God’s power for us who believe him. This is the same mighty power
[20]that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God’s right hand in the heavenly realms.
[21]Now he is far above any ruler or authority or power or leader or anything else—not only in this world but also in the world to come.
[22]God has put all things under the authority of Christ and has made him head over all things for the benefit of the church.
[23]And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself.

Was that a no?

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[MennoSota]

Was that a no?

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Was it confusing to you?

 

[Stripe]

Was it confusing to you?

I'll just take it as a no then.

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[Robert Pate]

LOL, you have no concept of Calvinism. You have presented your bitterness in this post.
If free-will existed, then humans would stand above God and dictate to God what they will do. God would be powerless to act. God would be a genie who responds to the wishes of his master...humankind.
But, thankfully, God is the supreme ruler over all things. No action within His creation takes place without God's sovereign ordination. When you choose, God says "yes" or God says "no." There is no action you take that is not ordained by God. Even the evil that takes place is allowed by God's patient ordination in accordance with His will for His good and perfect plan. An example of God's ordination over man is the story of Balaam. Balaam was paid by the kings around Canaan to go curse Israel. Every time Balaam attempted to bring a curse, God stopped him. God even caused blessings to come out of Balaam's mouth by God's providential will. Balaam could NOT willfully choose to curse Israel. Why? Because God's ordination and will is supreme over all. Men do not have a free-will that thwarts God's plan. God is not weak, like free-will philosophy proposes.
Humans are not robots. Humans are created beings who are under the Sovereign authority of God the King. Humans are not free. The Bible says we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness. Freedom is not an option. God, by His mercy and through His gracious favor may free a person from slavery to sin, but the person is then made a slave to righteousness. As Paul says, we are bond-slaves to Christ Jesus.
RP, you fight desperately against the bit of God's amazing grace. You are still a slave to sin.

There is no grace in a God that damns billions to hell for no reason.

True that we are all slaves to sin, this why God sent Jesus into the world to defeat sin, death and the devil. salvation is a free gift from God that can be either rejected or received.

"Therefore by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

You need to receive what God has provided for you in Jesus Christ. We do that by simple child like faith.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Calling on Christ to save you is an act of faith. If you were drowning you would call on the lifeguard to save you, would you not? Jesus and Jesus alone is the one that can save you. If you don't respond to what he has done for you, you will perish.

You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.

 

[Bright Raven]

There is no grace in a God that damns billions to hell for no reason.

True that we are all slaves to sin, this why God sent Jesus into the world to defeat sin, death and the devil. salvation is a free gift from God that can be either rejected or received.

"Therefore by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

You need to receive what God has provided for you in Jesus Christ. We do that by simple child like faith.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Calling on Christ to save you is an act of faith. If you were drowning you would call on the lifeguard to save you, would you not? Jesus and Jesus alone is the one that can save you. If you don't respond to what he has done for you, you will perish.

You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.

why do you dispute a doctrine that is in the Bible

 

[Robert Pate]

why do you dispute a doctrine that is in the Bible

There is no scripture in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

What it does say is that salvation is a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18. A gift can only be received or rejected. It cannot be imposed upon someone, nor can it be earned, otherwise it is not a gift

 

[beloved57]

There is no grace in a God that damns billions to hell for no reason.

True that we are all slaves to sin, this why God sent Jesus into the world to defeat sin, death and the devil. salvation is a free gift from God that can be either rejected or received.

"Therefore by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

You need to receive what God has provided for you in Jesus Christ. We do that by simple child like faith.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Calling on Christ to save you is an act of faith. If you were drowning you would call on the lifeguard to save you, would you not? Jesus and Jesus alone is the one that can save you. If you don't respond to what he has done for you, you will perish.

You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.

There's no Gospel that teachs sinners Christ died for are lost.

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[Bright Raven]

There is no scripture in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

What it does say is that salvation is a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18. A gift can only be received or rejected. It cannot be imposed upon someone, nor can it be earned, otherwise it is not a gift

Robert, The following proves you wrong;

Romans 8:29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

Ephesians 1:4-5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ephesians 1:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 [a]also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, The following proves you wrong;

Romans 8:29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

Ephesians 1:4-5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ephesians 1:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 [a]also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

None of those scriptures say that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

The American Standard Bible is not a good interpretation of scripture. I use the KJV.

If you are going to embrace Calvinism you will be required to believe that God is unjust. If you believe that God is unjust, it also means that you don't have faith in him. Why would God only save some and damn the rest to hell? Why didn't he predestinate everyone to be saved?

Before the foundation of the world God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Jesus saves the world by doing for the world what the world cannot do for its self. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. All that Jesus does, he does for the world. In our name and on our behalf he perfects our humanity and takes it to heaven. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. That is the Gospel.

We were predestinated to salvation only in Jesus Christ. This is what Romans 8:30 is saying.

Ephesians 1:4-5, we were chosen IN HIM (Christ) before the foundation of the world. God does not see us individually. What he sees is Jesus Christ. God is no respecter of any ones person, Acts 10:34. If God saw us individually he would judge us and condemn us to hell.

Ephesians 1:11, "In whom (Christ) we have obtained an inheritance". It is all about Jesus Christ, it is all about being "In Christ". God sees ALL THINGS in his son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God sees all of humanity "In Christ". Unfortunately not all want to be "In Christ" these are the lost.

 

[Bright Raven]

None of those scriptures say that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

The American Standard Bible is not a good interpretation of scripture. I use the KJV.

If you are going to embrace Calvinism you will be required to believe that God is unjust. If you believe that God is unjust, it also means that you don't have faith in him. Why would God only save some and damn the rest to hell? Why didn't he predestinate everyone to be saved?

Before the foundation of the world God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Jesus saves the world by doing for the world what the world cannot do for its self. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. All that Jesus does, he does for the world. In our name and on our behalf he perfects our humanity and takes it to heaven. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. That is the Gospel.

We were predestinated to salvation only in Jesus Christ. This is what Romans 8:30 is saying.

Ephesians 1:4-5, we were chosen IN HIM (Christ) before the foundation of the world. God does not see us individually. What he sees is Jesus Christ. God is no respecter of any ones person, Acts 10:34. If God saw us individually he would judge us and condemn us to hell.

Ephesians 1:11, "In whom (Christ) we have obtained an inheritance". It is all about Jesus Christ, it is all about being "In Christ". God sees ALL THINGS in his son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God sees all of humanity "In Christ". Unfortunately not all want to be "In Christ" these are the lost.

Does God know whether you will give your life to Him through Christ?

 

[beloved57]

None of those scriptures say that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

The American Standard Bible is not a good interpretation of scripture. I use the KJV.

If you are going to embrace Calvinism you will be required to believe that God is unjust. If you believe that God is unjust, it also means that you don't have faith in him. Why would God only save some and damn the rest to hell? Why didn't he predestinate everyone to be saved?

Before the foundation of the world God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Jesus saves the world by doing for the world what the world cannot do for its self. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. All that Jesus does, he does for the world. In our name and on our behalf he perfects our humanity and takes it to heaven. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. That is the Gospel.

We were predestinated to salvation only in Jesus Christ. This is what Romans 8:30 is saying.

Ephesians 1:4-5, we were chosen IN HIM (Christ) before the foundation of the world. God does not see us individually. What he sees is Jesus Christ. God is no respecter of any ones person, Acts 10:34. If God saw us individually he would judge us and condemn us to hell.

Ephesians 1:11, "In whom (Christ) we have obtained an inheritance". It is all about Jesus Christ, it is all about being "In Christ". God sees ALL THINGS in his son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God sees all of humanity "In Christ". Unfortunately not all want to be "In Christ" these are the lost.

What gospel is it you preach that tells people that people Christ died for are lost anyway? A false gospel.

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[Bright Raven]

What gospel is it you preach that tells people that people Christ died for are lost anyway? A false gospel.

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Matthew 9:12-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn [a]what this means: ‘I desire compassion, [c]and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

 

[Robert Pate]

Does God know whether you will give your life to Him through Christ?

I don't know. Luke 15:10 says that there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents. Its like they don't know who will repent and come to Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

What gospel is it you preach that tells people that people Christ died for are lost anyway? A false gospel.

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The people that Christ died for are the people of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

It is a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18.

 

[Bright Raven]

I don't know. Luke 15:10 says that there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents. Its like they don't know who will repent and come to Christ.

Is God Omniscient?

 

[Robert Pate]

Is God Omniscient?

The Spirit of God is in the whole universe. He created everything and is sustaining everything. So we must conclude that God Omniscient. However, there are some things that he only sees and knows "In Christ". He is holy beyond human comprehension. If it were not for Christ, he would have wrapped up the whole universe in one big ball of fire when Adam sinned.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

If Paul wanted to, could he have rejected Jesus' offer of salvation?

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May I butt in?

You are asking a Calvinist if Paul had a free will. Calvinist believe that no one has a free will. They believe that we are just a bunch of dumb robots that can't think for themselves. This thinking dishonors God and insults his Son Jesus Christ.

Best not to butt in, Robert, especially when you do not know what or who you are talking about.

If Paul wanted to reject the call of the Lord then he was never called and Scripture would give us an entirely different accounting.

Those salvifically called are quickened from death to life (Eze. 36:26; Romans 8:30). Those so called will want to accept the call per their own free will—their greatest inclinations at the moment they so choose—for their greatest inclinations at the instant of their quickening are to not not reject the call.

As Romans 8:30 teaches, no one rejects the salvific call of the Lord.

God does as He pleases, only as He pleases, always as He pleases. None can thwart Him, none can hinder Him. So His own Word expressly declares: "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa 46:10); "He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan 4:35).

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I don't know. Luke 15:10 says that there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents. Its like they don't know who will repent and come to Christ.

Angels are not omniscient, Robert. God is.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

God predestinated the nation of Israel.

Predestination as used in Scripture refers to salvific events. God is not saving geographies, Robert. God setting aside a people of a nation, Israel, to be the conduit of His special revelation, the OT Scriptures, and to preserve said revelation is not implying each and every Israelite was actually saved.

God also predestinated prophets and the apostles for the sole purpose of making known to the world his Son Jesus Christ.

What did this predestination of prophets and apostles actually comprise, Robert? Was any violence done to their wills by God? What does predestination here mean to you?

AMR