The Gospel Verses Predestination

[Nanja]

Pate, listen to what the scriptures, the Word of God saith.

God sends some to the Lake of Fire because they are not Christ's Sheep He died for John 10:11,15.

But they are goats, children of the devil, the tares which were cursed and are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of the world.


Mat. 13:38-40

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Mat. 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[MennoSota]

All Calvinist are lost because of their negative view of the nature and character of God and his Son Jesus Christ.

To believe that God predestinates people to hell is a terrible thing to believe about God and is blaspheme. And then to believe that Jesus only atoned for some sins and not all sins is also blaspheme. We are saved and justified by faith, faith in God and faith in Jesus. It is not possible to believe the things that Calvinist believe about God and his Son Jesus Christ and be saved. It is just not going to happen. Unfortunately you will have to find that out in the judgment.

What I notice in this diatribe is that you have absolutely no scriptural support.
Your words are empty of substance.
Contrary to your claims, a person who accepts the Bible's statements on predestination, election and God's Sovereign choice is a person with a high view of God.
We realize that apart from being in Christ, we are wretched and poor. It is solely by the wonderously, amazing grace of God that we have any fellowship with our Creator. He has done everything for us. He has adopted us. He has redeemed us. He has reconciled us. He has plucked us from death to life. He has justified us by Christ alone. He is sanctifying us unto Himself. He is Great and He is Glorious. Unto Him be all glory, power and dominion. We fall at His feet, amazed by His mercy and Grace.
These are things you know nothing about, Robert.

 

[God's Truth]

What I notice in this diatribe is that you have absolutely no scriptural support.
Your words are empty of substance.
Contrary to your claims, a person who accepts the Bible's statements on predestination, election and God's Sovereign choice is a person with a high view of God.
We realize that apart from being in Christ, we are wretched and poor. It is solely by the wonderously, amazing grace of God that we have any fellowship with our Creator. He has done everything for us. He has adopted us. He has redeemed us. He has reconciled us. He has plucked us from death to life. He has justified us by Christ alone. He is sanctifying us unto Himself. He is Great and He is Glorious. Unto Him be all glory, power and dominion. We fall at His feet, amazed by His mercy and Grace.
These are things you know nothing about, Robert.

Those with good and honest hearts are those who get saved.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

 

[MennoSota]

Those with good and honest hearts are those who get saved.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

Luke 5:30-32
[30]But the Pharisees and their teachers of religious law complained bitterly to Jesus’ disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with such scum?”
[31]Jesus answered them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do.
[32]I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.”

 

[God's Truth]

Luke 5:30-32
[30]But the Pharisees and their teachers of religious law complained bitterly to Jesus’ disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with such scum?”
[31]Jesus answered them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do.
[32]I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.”

You have no understanding of any of the scriptures.

Jesus is explaining that all need him and that those who don't repent will not get saved.

The Pharisees didn't think they had to repent, even though Jesus said they didn't obey.

 

[MennoSota]

You have no understanding of any of the scriptures.

Jesus is explaining that all need him and that those who don't repent will not get saved.

The Pharisees didn't think they had to repent, even though Jesus said they didn't obey.

I provide a direct passage proving you wrong and still you fight against the bit.
May God have mercy on you and radically remove the blindness from your eyes. Unless God does so, you will spend eternity in hell.

 

[God's Truth]

I provide a direct passage proving you wrong and still you fight against the bit.
May God have mercy on you and radically remove the blindness from your eyes. Unless God does so, you will spend eternity in hell.

You have a belief that is nowhere in the scriptures.
God does not save those who do not repent.
God does not make anyone repent.

 

[MennoSota]

You have a belief that is nowhere in the scriptures.
God does not save those who do not repent.
God does not make anyone repent.

LOL, I have provided much scripture and you excuse it away. Unless God changes your heart, you will die in your sins and spend eternity in hell. This will be tragic.

 

[God's Truth]

LOL, I have provided much scripture and you excuse it away. Unless God changes your heart, you will die in your sins and spend eternity in hell. This will be tragic.

You have not shown one scripture that says God saves unbelievers who do not repent.

Show it now or concede.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Why should I change?

All of which begs the question I have been asking for years concerning your behavior, Robert. After being shown the door at all other web sites where you plied your stock and trade, you have shamelessly squatted here.

You take the time to start a thread at a discussion site, then you refuse to engage in any substantive discussion of the responses received. Why do you start so many threads if all you intend is to just post something that pops into your head and move along? That is the very definition of blogging. Last time I checked, TOL is not a blogging environment. If you want to blog why not use the TOL Blog feature? You can post at your heart's content therein.

Relying upon the TOL "party analogy" making the rounds in other threads here, you are one of the party guests that we unfortunately find from time to time at a party: a moocher. :AMR:

AMR

 

[Stripe]

Predestination is a false Gospel.

Do Calvinists present predestination as the gospel?

I would have thought they would simply regard it as a theological point.

Regardless, the Bible teaches that men are "predestined" in some fashion, so it would be best to use that word, but make clear your definition of it, as well as the context in which it is used.

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[Robert Pate]

All of which begs the question I have been asking for years concerning your behavior, Robert. After being shown the door at all other web sites where you plied your stock and trade, you have shamelessly squatted here.

You take the time to start a thread at a discussion site, then you refuse to engage in any substantive discussion of the responses received. Why do you start so many threads if all you intend is to just post something that pops into your head and move along? That is the very definition of blogging. Last time I checked, TOL is not a blogging environment. If you want to blog why not use the TOL Blog feature? You can post at your heart's content therein.

Relying upon the TOL "party analogy" making the rounds in other threads here, you are one of the party guests that we unfortunately find from time to time at a party: a moocher. :AMR:

AMR

You are mistaken. I have been on TOL for 10 years. You don't like what I teach and are under conviction to accept Christ as your savior. Calvinism is a lie and you know it.

 

[MennoSota]

You have not shown one scripture that says God saves unbelievers who do not repent.

Show it now or concede.

Sure I have. You just keep moving the goalposts whenever someone shows you are wrong. You show clear signs that you are not found in Christ. Your chains are still on. That is a pity.

 

[Robert Pate]

Do Calvinists present predestination as the gospel?

I would have thought they would simply regard it as a theological point.

Regardless, the Bible teaches that men are "predestined" in some fashion, so it would be best to use that word, but make clear your definition of it, as well as the context in which it is used.

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God predestinated the nation of Israel. God also predestinated prophets and the apostles for the sole purpose of making known to the world his Son Jesus Christ. The whole Bible is about Jesus Christ. God was bringing forth a nation and a people from whom the savior of the world would come. There is no predestination without a purpose.

God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity. "If any man be "IN Christ" he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17. We become new creations by faith in Christ and his Gospel.

God does not create robots. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

 

[MennoSota]

You have no understanding of any of the scriptures.

Jesus is explaining that all need him and that those who don't repent will not get saved.

The Pharisees didn't think they had to repent, even though Jesus said they didn't obey.

Great. Saul was a Pharisee on the road to Damascus with no repentance in his body when God stopped him cold and saved him. Your man-made philosophy is busted!

 

[MennoSota]

You have a belief that is nowhere in the scriptures.
God does not save those who do not repent.
God does not make anyone repent.

LOL, you are a blind man, a deaf man and a spiritually dead man in desperate need of God's gracious choice. Unfortunately you are a Pharisee.

 

[MennoSota]

LOL

You have not shown one scripture that says God saves unbelievers who do not repent.

Show it now or concede.

Your blindness and pride condemn you. May God mercifully grab you and crush your self so that you are crucified with Christ.

 

[Stripe]

Great. Saul was a Pharisee on the road to Damascus with no repentance in his body when God stopped him cold and saved him. Your man-made philosophy is busted!

If Paul wanted to, could he have rejected Jesus' offer of salvation?

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[Robert Pate]

If Paul wanted to, could he have rejected Jesus' offer of salvation?

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May I butt in?

You are asking a Calvinist if Paul had a free will. Calvinist believe that no one has a free will. They believe that we are just a bunch of dumb robots that can't think for themselves. This thinking dishonors God and insults his Son Jesus Christ.

 

[MennoSota]

If Paul wanted to, could he have rejected Jesus' offer of salvation?

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What does predestination, election and God's choice mean to you? This is what God wrote through Paul:
Ephesians 1:4-6,11,14,18-23
[4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
[5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
[6]So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son.
[11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
[14]The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.
[18]I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the confident hope he has given to those he called—his holy people who are his rich and glorious inheritance.
[19]I also pray that you will understand the incredible greatness of God’s power for us who believe him. This is the same mighty power
[20]that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God’s right hand in the heavenly realms.
[21]Now he is far above any ruler or authority or power or leader or anything else—not only in this world but also in the world to come.
[22]God has put all things under the authority of Christ and has made him head over all things for the benefit of the church.
[23]And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself.