REPORT: Nicer Than God - By Bob Enyart

[Nick M]

Well if 'christian fruit' is akin to calling people 'faggots, homos and molestors' then no, I guess i'm not gonna be displaying much of it.....

What if they are? Call them painters instead?

You voted for Mike Dukakis didn't you?

 

[red77]

What if they are? Call them painters instead?

You voted for Mike Dukakis didn't you?

And what if they arent as happens on here? That's justifiable is it? To ad hom and lie about other posters with no foundation, is it being 'nicer than God' to find something totally wrong with that?

Considering that I live in England I didn't vote for anyone to be president....

 

[Clete]

If you think that it's somehow edifying and fruits of the spirit to call posters faggots and child molestors then I'm sorry there isn't some part of you that isn't embarrassed about it yourself, how on earth you can justify it as 'christian' is equally bemusing and sickening

It's only justified if its true, you dork.

See how that worked? :freak:

 

[Stripe]

Red. You're going to the same place Hitler is mate.

 

[Nick M]

The reason I asked is Mike Dukakis is as heartless as you. You claim to be loving, when in fact you are not.

He was asked in the Presidential debate if his wife was raped and murdered, would he seek the death penalty, as he was a known opponent. He coldly stated no, to the suprise of even Sam Donaldson I think it was. He wouldn't even be upset that somebody commited a capital offense against his wife. He tried to portray himself as forgiving, when in fact he is just wicked. He is wicked because he tolerates it, just like you.

 

[PKevman]

oh come on pastor, I think we're both aware that this is hardly anything that causes me a problem or that I have to 'squirm' around, I've been upfront with my answer on this several times before, YES, I believe Hitler will be redeemed,

Nice try in your attempt to weasel out of it, but my point is proven. This is not a straw man in the least Red. Let's go back and examine what brought it up again.

NICK asked:

Should we speak nicely of Adolph Hitler? If not, why?

To which I responded:

According to Univeralists like Red77 we will be spending eternity fellowshiping with him, so we better go ahead and practice now. :think:

And then YOU said:

you must know that the 'Hitler' analogy is a strawman

So NOW you say:

YES, I believe Hitler will be redeemed

Which was the whole point after all. You cannot deal with cool simple and straight facts, because your theology is a mess. You are a phony Christian Red.
The above statement alone should reveal to any serious believer who loves the Lord that you are morally and spiritually bankrupt. The only way Hitler or any man could be redeemed is by trusting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross.
You teach a phony Gospel, and as I said before, I don't envy you on judgment day when God makes you give an account for all of the lies and deceit that you have spread. You will be the one fellowshiping with Hitler in eternity Red, if you don't repent. And it won't be in Heaven.

It's a bit disingenuous of you to try and reverse the obvious emotional fallacy of the 'Hitler' argument

Nothing need be reversed. Your own words do just fine in revealing the wickedness of your views.

as it's invariably ET'ers who try to use this sterotyped argument to justify their doctrine of nonending suffering, you've done it several times in the battle talk thread, and it will always backfire on you and anyone else who attemps to use this strawman,

Nothing backfires when one stands on the firm truth of the Word of God. The wages of sin is in fact death. Those who don't have their names written in the Book of Life face the 2nd death. The Bible is clear. Your theology is twisted, your "Nicer than God" act is doing nothing to help people. You are misleading them to an eternity apart from God, and proudly doing it. You are deceived and you are a deceiver. But you don't have to be. There is still time to turn from your wicked ways!

And as for what is so 'clear' to you this was refuted in the battle royale,

Well the polls from the Battle Royale said otherwise. The votes were overwhelmingly in our favor. I say this not to brag, but to point out yet another fallacy. But this thread is not about the Battle Royale, or about Universalism. The only reason it was brought up is because it is the very epitome of "Nicer than God".

in fact when those of you who ascribe to ET can agree with each other on just what it is instead of the myriad opinions on the subject then perhaps then you'll have soom rome to talk about why it's so "clear"....

All serious evangelical Bible students agree that the separation from God in the Lake of Fire is eternal. While there may be some differing views on what form the punishment will take, there is no disagreement on that point, so this argument of yours is actually the perfect example of a strawman argument.
Try and use the fact that different people have different views on what the form of the punishment is, but dismiss the fact that we all agree it is eternal and that the Scriptures are clear there is no return from the Lake of Fire, the 2nd Death is final, Satan and the fallen angels don't get out, the Beast, False Prophet, and all those whose names aren't in the Book of Life don't get out. I could go on and on showing how once again you are distorting and twisting the truth to meet your own humanistic purposes. But what would be the point. You are stuck in your own little "Nicer than God" world, and until you are ready to embrace God's Word as authoritative and true, you will not believe.

Um, I do not need your approval as to what views I air or who I agree and disagree with on here,

It isn't a matter of what I approve of. It is a matter of what God approves of. He wrote that thing called, you know THE BIBLE, so that we could know exactly what He thinks of things such as homosexuality. You deny His Word at every turn and blindly defend the wicked. You are a cold-hearted person who thinks he is being loving and kind.

people are free to agree/disagree/be indifferent towards anything i write and express,

Why thank you for your permission oh high and mighty one. :chuckle: Am I free to disagree with your garbage theology? I bet you would like for me just to sit back and say, "Oh Red77 what a lovely day. Let's go lead some people to hell today. Let's stand up for abortionists, homosexuals, rapists, child molestors and the like. Let's condemn the death penalty because it's really mean and cruel, and we don't want to do it God's way, we want a Nicey-Nice way of doing things."

Sorry. Won't happen!

and fyi I happen to get on and agree with a great many christians on this board thanks,

Really? I don't see it very often. In fact I cannot recall you agreeing with a Biblical position in any post that I have read of yours anytime recently. I bet the "Christians" you agree with so frequently are those who share your same "Nicer than God" approach and won't even condemn a wicked and evil man like Hitler!

And excuse me if I find there to be more pressing matters in the world than a fixation with homosexuality and the private sexual lives of others

The point is made. You deny and disagree with what God says on the subject, but you're too much of a coward to admit it.

I will not pretend to believe that I think that executing adulterers and homosexuals under a mosaic law is a primary concern of christianity today,

"Nicer than God" in action folks!

doing something towards those who are in suffering, poverty, disease and misery is something that should be a bit more important as far as I'm concerned...

Nothing wrong with helping the suffering and the sick. But then again, what is your point? You can help the suffering and sick and also be theologically sound and grounded in the Word of God.

And if you think I dont condemn certain behaviours then think again,

:think: again........

I condemn anything that violates a human or animal

Ah so now animals are equal with humans? Typical liberal position. Animals have rights too, I agree. They have the right to be killed and eaten. God says all of His creatures are good for food. Red77 is "Nicer than God" again.

which includes murder,rape, violent abuse and molestation among other things, and I've said as much on this forum PLENTY of times....

Really? Why is it that all we ever seem to hear from you is defending the wicked in thread after thread after thread. And what exactly do you condemn them to Red?
You are against the death penalty for those who deserve it. You are against them receiving the 2nd death just as God said they should. You are against all of the basic standards of righteousness and holiness God has set forth in His Word. What do you condemn the rapist or the child molestor to Red?

:idea: Wait I know:

Red77: Ok Mr. Child Molestor, that was really wrong of you to do. Let's go out and have a nice vegetarian dinner together and talk about how you shouldn't do that again. That was a big no-no!

In fact I'll ask you here and now as I've asked you several times in the past as to whether the ad homming and blatant lies that are aired on here from time to time are in any way acceptable of edifying christian behviour?

It depends on the situation and the circumstances. There is nothing wrong with identifying the wicked as being wicked. If that is what you are talking about, then I would side with those who identified you as wicked, because you are wicked!

Is it christian to call people 'faggots, homos and molestors' pastor?

If it is true, then absolutely. I thought you were against the Law by the way Red. Why are you trying to put the Christians that you say said these things to you back under Law? They aren't Christians because they talked to you in a way you didn't like? Is that in the Bible? Please show me where it is.

Jesus spoke this way!

Further than this: Jesus called people things like "Brood of Vipers", "Fools" and "Dogs". I don't think you understand the significance of those insults because we are 2,000 years removed from the culture they lived in.

To Jewish people of that day, the term "Dog" was about as low down an insult as could possibly be uttered. It was WORSE than using the words you stated above. To them the "Dogs" weren't the little furry pets that we have in our homes. They were disgusting and filthy animals that ravaged the countryside. In the context of Jesus' insults and calling them "Dogs" he was using a harsh and insulting word to get their attention. Were they really dirty, mangy, filthy dogs? I guarantee you the Pharisees who were sitting around plotting Jesus' death sounded EXACTLY like you! 'How is HE from God if he calls us dogs and fools?'

The very methods that Jesus used to get the Pharisees' attention and called out their wickedness might well have been done to you to serve the same purpose. Perhaps you should consider this!

i submit that it isn't, what say you?

I submit it is using the same type of method Jesus used on the particularly difficult, proud, and obstinate people of his day. In other words, the "Red77's" of his day!

if you agree then perhaps you would be equally up to the task of rebuking those 'bible believing christians' who induldge in it

.....If you don't agree i would love to hear your justification for it....

Would you rebuke Jesus for calling people "Dogs" when they weren't really dogs? And before you say "Oh it's just a dog", I HIGHLY suggest you do a quick little study on the term "Dogs" and what it meant to the people of Jesus' day. Then let me know if you think what they said was unjustified!


And now...BACK to our regularly scheduled TOL debate.

 

[Stripe]

Well said PK.

 

[CRASH]

Well if 'christian fruit' is akin to calling people 'faggots, homos and molestors' then no, I guess i'm not gonna be displaying much of it.....

Thank you for admitting the truth. Your own words condemn you. :dunce:You are not a Christian but a wolf in sheeps clothing - leading as may as you can to Hell!:shut:

I rebuke you Red! You are an evil Dog on your way to Hell! :noid:
Repent and turn back to the Living God!

 

[red77]

It's only justified if its true, you dork.

See how that worked? :freak:

Well there's a lot of ad homs that aren't justified on here then, but never mind, if adults want to play like kids.....

 

[red77]

Thank you for admitting the truth. Your own words condemn you. :dunce:You are not a Christian but a wolf in sheeps clothing - leading as may as you can to Hell!:shut:

I rebuke you Red! You are an evil Dog on your way to Hell! :noid:
Repent and turn back to the Living God!

You 'rebuke' me after having called me a child molestor? Have you repented of that lie yet?

and pastor, I will address your post when I have some more time....

 

[PKevman]

You 'rebuke' me after having called me a child molestor? Have you repented of that lie yet?

and pastor, I will address your post when I have some more time....

Ok. When you do please let us know if Jesus needed to repent for calling people who weren't "Dogs" dogs.

 

[Stripe]

Those who need to think in order to respond to the truth have only lies that require such extension.

 

[red77]

Those who need to think in order to respond to the truth have only lies that require such extension.

Either that or they have to go into work and don't have time to type out their reply Stipe....
I'll respond properly on my lunch break

 

[Stripe]

:rotfl:

 

[Stripe]

The only way to respond to the truth in PK's post honestly is to say, "You are right. I want to change. Help me." Takes less than it did to respond to me.

That you can respond to the truth of my statement with a lie is simply a matter of practiced delusion and the fact that you think volume = content.

 

[red77]

The only way to respond to the truth honestly is to say, "You are right. I want to change. Help me."

That you can respond to the truth of my statement with a lie is simply a matter of practiced delusion and the fact that you think volume = content.

Uh, what lie? i have to go in one minute to go back to work so I do not have the time to type out a long post, I will do in approx three hours....
obviously you realise that your deleted post doesnt exactly apply to me because I live in the UK, maybe you should try checking your facts before you post a bit more often......

 

[Stripe]

:rotfl:

 

[Stripe]

I'll let you know Red. We generally hate reading your lies. So your promise of more lies in three hours is arguably the most unattractive thing you've said.

 

[red77]

Nice try in your attempt to weasel out of it, but my point is proven. This is not a straw man in the least Red. Let's go back and examine what brought it up again.

What exactly am i 'weaselling out of exactly? I've answered your question straight up!

NICK asked:

And no we shouldn't, Hitler along with the nazi regime are responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history,

To which I responded:

[

SIZE="2"]And then YOU said:[/SIZE]

So NOW you say:

Yes, and.....?

Which was the whole point after all. You cannot deal with cool simple and straight facts, because your theology is a mess. You are a phony Christian Red.
The above statement alone should reveal to any serious believer who loves the Lord that you are morally and spiritually bankrupt. The only way Hitler or any man could be redeemed is by trusting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross.
You teach a phony Gospel, and as I said before, I don't envy you on judgment day when God makes you give an account for all of the lies and deceit that you have spread. You will be the one fellowshiping with Hitler in eternity Red, if you don't repent. And it won't be in Heaven.

If there is anyone weaselling out of anything then it's you pastor, all this ramble about being morally bankrupt? Why? because I dont believe that Hitler is deep fried for eternity? there is no mess with the theology, Jesus died as a ransom for all, the sarifice also included hitler and all others like him, just because you can't accept that God could actually be 100% successful in his mission doesn't make it any the less, It also doesn't state that we're unaccountable for our actions and everything is rosy for those who have committed such atrocities,

Nothing need be reversed. Your own words do just fine in revealing the wickedness of your views.

Care to address the point intstead of some meaningless sentence which anyone could write?

Nothing backfires when one stands on the firm truth of the Word of God. The wages of sin is in fact death. Those who don't have their names written in the Book of Life face the 2nd death. The Bible is clear. Your theology is twisted, your "Nicer than God" act is doing nothing to help people. You are misleading them to an eternity apart from God, and proudly doing it. You are deceived and you are a deceiver. But you don't have to be. There is still time to turn from your wicked ways!

It's backfired on you already pastor, don't think I hadn't noticed that you've failed to address your comments regarding 9/11.... YOU were the one to bring the strawman up in the battle royale - as an appeal to make ET more 'just', do you not remember? You very soon backpedalled when the obvious was pointed out to you, that most of the victims would probably be rotting alongside their attackers if your theology was correct, it never works, i'm surprised that ET'ers still persist with trying to use these analogies because it's not ust the perpetrators of extreme evil who get the fiery lake, it's those whose are the victims as well

Well the polls from the Battle Royale said otherwise. The votes were overwhelmingly in our favor. I say this not to brag, but to point out yet another fallacy. But this thread is not about the Battle Royale, or about Universalism. The only reason it was brought up is because it is the very epitome of "Nicer than God".

It's not really anything to brag about anyway, I doubt Logos X was under illusions of actually 'winning' the battle but wanted to explain and justify his belief for any interested readers, TOL makes no claim to be unbiased and it was obvious from the outset that the traditional view on here was going to "win",

All serious evangelical Bible students agree that the separation from God in the Lake of Fire is eternal. While there may be some differing views on what form the punishment will take, there is no disagreement on that point, so this argument of yours is actually the perfect example of a strawman argument.
Try and use the fact that different people have different views on what the form of the punishment is, but dismiss the fact that we all agree it is eternal and that the Scriptures are clear there is no return from the Lake of Fire, the 2nd Death is final, Satan and the fallen angels don't get out, the Beast, False Prophet, and all those whose names aren't in the Book of Life don't get out. I could go on and on showing how once again you are distorting and twisting the truth to meet your own humanistic purposes. But what would be the point. You are stuck in your own little "Nicer than God" world, and until you are ready to embrace God's Word as authoritative and true, you will not believe.

"some differeing views"? There's loads! You state that universalism is a 'mess of theology" and you ET'ers can't even agree on what the lake of fire and hell actually are! Tell me - why is this not crystal clear?

It isn't a matter of what I approve of. It is a matter of what God approves of. He wrote that thing called, you know THE BIBLE, so that we could know exactly what He thinks of things such as homosexuality. You deny His Word at every turn and blindly defend the wicked. You are a cold-hearted person who thinks he is being loving and kind.

'blindly defend the wicked'? Come off it, I don't defend rape, murder etc, nor do I deny the word at every turn, the fact that I disagree with you on much of your interpretation of the word is more the issue here....

Why thank you for your permission oh high and mighty one. :chuckle: Am I free to disagree with your garbage theology? I bet you would like for me just to sit back and say, "Oh Red77 what a lovely day. Let's go lead some people to hell today. Let's stand up for abortionists, homosexuals, rapists, child molestors and the like. Let's condemn the death penalty because it's really mean and cruel, and we don't want to do it God's way, we want a Nicey-Nice way of doing things."

Sorry. Won't happen!

'high and mighty'? 'permission'? I was just stating fact and there was no 'highness' about it.....and to be honest you would lose your bet, in case you aren't already aware i have no problem with a heated debate pastor - with you or anyone else, say what you want!

Really? I don't see it very often. In fact I cannot recall you agreeing with a Biblical position in any post that I have read of yours anytime recently. I bet the "Christians" you agree with so frequently are those who share your same "Nicer than God" approach and won't even condemn a wicked and evil man like Hitler!

The Christains i agree, am friendly with and respect on here display the fruits of the spirit and they certainly arent all universalists.....do you want me to write you a list?

The point is made. You deny and disagree with what God says on the subject, but you're too much of a coward to admit it.

It was mosaic law, and it's funny how many of the other things that were apparently punishable by death are soon glossed over, it's no secret that the reason homosexuality is fixated on here is because of people's own hangups and personal disgust, i wish people would actually be brave enough to admit that instead of trying to hide behind a veil of 'righteousness'.....

"Nicer than God" in action folks!

Oh please, maybe I can just recognise (along with many other christians) that we don't live under mosaic law anymore! some of us believe that there's such a thing as the NT and christinanity is not about killing everything and everyone who is guilty of immorality....! :bang:

Nothing wrong with helping the suffering and the sick. But then again, what is your point? You can help the suffering and sick and also be theologically sound and grounded in the Word of God.

the point is is that it should be at the forefront! When killing overrides helping the sick and needy then there's something SERIOUSLY wrong.....

:think: again........

Ah so now animals are equal with humans? Typical liberal position. Animals have rights too, I agree. They have the right to be killed and eaten. God says all of His creatures are good for food. Red77 is "Nicer than God" again.

WHAT???!

Who said that I thought animals are equal to humans? I didnt......i eat meat, does the fact that I believe that the animals farmed for food should be treated and killed humanely make me a liberal? does finding the actions of Michael Vick and any others who cruelly abuse animals for their amusement ALSO make me a liberal?
Buy a clue it should be a no brainer that cruelty is wrong no matter what side of the political fence you're on, if you somehow disagree with that statement then excuse me if I find your 'cold hearted' more hollow than I do already....

Really? Why is it that all we ever seem to hear from you is defending the wicked in thread after thread after thread. And what exactly do you condemn them to Red?
You are against the death penalty for those who deserve it. You are against them receiving the 2nd death just as God said they should. You are against all of the basic standards of righteousness and holiness God has set forth in His Word. What do you condemn the rapist or the child molestor to Red?

:idea: Wait I know:

Red77: Ok Mr. Child Molestor, that was really wrong of you to do. Let's go out and have a nice vegetarian dinner together and talk about how you shouldn't do that again. That was a big no-no!

Again - buy a clue....

In case you aren't already aware my sister was the victim of rape, the perp was never caught at least not to our knowledge, I only hope and pray that he was before he could do the same to another, if you think that I don't believe that the guy should pay the price then you can THINK again, being the human that I am if I ever caught up with this person it would be hard not to strap the guy to a chair and set to work with a baseball bat and a cheese grater......I am SICK of having to explain this, i am NOT against the DP for those who rape,murder and molest, I am against the DP because our judicial systems are so inept that I wouldnt trust them to convict the right person of a parking offence let alone murder, and I happen to think that the amount of inevitable miscarriages is too much of a price to pay, a quick google search would show just how many mess up's our systems have made through the years....

It depends on the situation and the circumstances. There is nothing wrong with identifying the wicked as being wicked. If that is what you are talking about, then I would side with those who identified you as wicked, because you are wicked!

How about when someone with no foundation calls someone a child molestor pastor?
Is that not wicked and unchristian? A straight answer please...

If it is true, then absolutely. I thought you were against the Law by the way Red. Why are you trying to put the Christians that you say said these things to you back under Law? They aren't Christians because they talked to you in a way you didn't like? Is that in the Bible? Please show me where it is.

Jesus spoke this way!

Further than this: Jesus called people things like "Brood of Vipers", "Fools" and "Dogs". I don't think you understand the significance of those insults because we are 2,000 years removed from the culture they lived in.

To Jewish people of that day, the term "Dog" was about as low down an insult as could possibly be uttered. It was WORSE than using the words you stated above. To them the "Dogs" weren't the little furry pets that we have in our homes. They were disgusting and filthy animals that ravaged the countryside. In the context of Jesus' insults and calling them "Dogs" he was using a harsh and insulting word to get their attention. Were they really dirty, mangy, filthy dogs? I guarantee you the Pharisees who were sitting around plotting Jesus' death sounded EXACTLY like you! 'How is HE from God if he calls us dogs and fools?'

The very methods that Jesus used to get the Pharisees' attention and called out their wickedness might well have been done to you to serve the same purpose. Perhaps you should consider this!



I submit it is using the same type of method Jesus used on the particularly difficult, proud, and obstinate people of his day. In other words, the "Red77's" of his day!

oh how ironic! I'm often reminded of the pharisees by certain posters on here :chuckle:
How you can equate how Jesus spoke to the pharisees to the kindergarten speak that is rife on here is absurd, the pharisees, scribes and teachers of the law were abusing their authority over people, they placed more emphasis on legalism than common people, Jesus spoke harshly to the pharisees to expose their coldness and evil for what it was, in the case of the adulterous woman he managed to convict a whole crowd of them that they were left with nothing to say and their CONSCIENCE made them leave......

Never ONCE did Jesus use a throwaway insult to anyone, if you can show me one verse where Jesus insults anyone not in authority or power with a throwaway remark then I'll concede, i've asked this half a dozen times now and not ONE person has managed to supply such a verse, I wonder why....


[

COLOR="sienna"]Would you rebuke Jesus for calling people "Dogs" when they weren't really dogs? And before you say "Oh it's just a dog", I HIGHLY suggest you do a quick little study on the term "Dogs" and what it meant to the people of Jesus' day. Then let me know if you think what they said was unjustified!


And now...BACK to our regularly scheduled TOL debate.[/COLOR]

[/QUOTE]

Obviously I wouldn't dream of rebuking Jesus for saying anything, I believe I've answered this above,

Now, is it christian to ad hom with no foundation or reason? :think:

 

[Stripe]

Still thinks he'll be hanging out with Hitler for eternity.

Still lost.