Actually it wasn't an emotional appeal to anything. It was a statement of fact. Why do you have such a problem with what your own doctrine teaches? You are the VERY epitome of the "Nicer than God" camp that Bob mentioned in the article. You won't even condemn a wicked murderer like Hitler, instead you insist that Hitler gets to go to Heaven. How is it a strawman when it is exactly what you have stated you believe? Have you abandoned Universalism now? If so, it is news to me.
Will Hitler be saved or not Red? If you say yes, then my statement was a simple statement of fact. I have seen you agree with that before, so I know it is a position that you hold. You get angry and you squirm when it is brought up, but the fact remains that you are so much "nicer than God" that you won't even agree with Him that the wages of sin is death, and that people such as Hitler deserve hell. That Satan and the fallen angels deserve to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. Your doctrine teaches that even Satan and the fallen angels eventually get out. Sorry, because I know nobody wants to turn this into another debate on Universalism. My whole point in bringing this up was to point out that your doctrine is the ultimate "Nicer than God" doctrine, because you utterly ignore the clear Bible verses that speak of people being judged for all eternity for their sins, and you replace it with what you think is a much nicer version of God and what you think His Word SHOULD say.
oh come on pastor, I think we're both aware that this is hardly anything that causes me a problem or that I have to 'squirm' around, I've been upfront with my answer on this several times before, YES, I believe Hitler will be redeemed, It's a bit disingenuous of you to try and reverse the obvious emotional fallacy of the 'Hitler' argument as it's invariably ET'ers who try to use this sterotyped argument to justify their doctrine of nonending suffering, you've done it several times in the battle talk thread, and it will always backfire on you and anyone else who attemps to use this strawman,
you atempt to make ET more 'justifiable' by using Hitler as an example of who should be punished because of his atrocities against people, you used the same argument with the perpetrators of the 9/11 atrocity, You made an appeal to the emotions of people by trying to condemn universalism because it states that even those who commit such terrible acts will eventually be reconciled, and it didn't work then for the same reasons it doesnt work now, in your doctrine all it takes to be conemned to torment is unbelief, so therefore many of those who were killed on 9/11 will be sharing the same fate as their attackers so the attempt to justify ET through using stereotypes of extreme evil falls flat....
does this mean that the actions of terrorists and their ilk are condoned? No, of course not...
And as for what is so 'clear' to you this was refuted in the battle royale, in fact when those of you who ascribe to ET can agree with each other on just what it is instead of the myriad opinions on the subject then perhaps then you'll have soom rome to talk about why it's so "clear"....
Further than all of this, Red77, you day after day on this board defend abortion, homosexuals, and in practically every instance and every debate that I have ever seen you participate in you side with liberals and atheists. The pagans view you as some type of hero. It is sad and unfortunate, because they are looking up to someone who is misleading them as to what a Christian really is. They think Christians should be like Red77, never condemning anybody or anything. Your beliefs and your doctrines, and your constant defense of the wicked and your attacks on solid Bible believers are destructive and I rebuke you for them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, the maker of Heaven and earth.
Um, I do not need your approval as to what views I air or who I agree and disagree with on here, people are free to agree/disagree/be indifferent towards anything i write and express, and fyi I happen to get on and agree with a great many christians on this board thanks, whats more I do not look at someones faith icon before deciding whether I agree with their post but rather the content of it itself,
And excuse me if I find there to be more pressing matters in the world than a fixation with homosexuality and the private sexual lives of others, I will not pretend to believe that I think that executing adulterers and homosexuals under a mosaic law is a primary concern of christianity today, doing something towards those who are in suffering, poverty, disease and misery is something that should be a
bit more important as far as I'm concerned...
And if you think I dont condemn certain behaviours then think again, I condemn anything that violates a human or animal which includes murder,rape, violent abuse and molestation among other things, and I've said as much on this forum PLENTY of times....
Oh, and if you're going to 'rebuke' me for so called 'attacks' on 'bible believing christians' then how about an example? In fact I'll ask you here and now as I've asked you several times in the past as to whether the ad homming and blatant lies that are aired on here from time to time are in any way acceptable of edifying christian behviour? Is it christian to call people 'faggots, homos and molestors' pastor? i submit that it isn't, what say you?
if you agree then perhaps you would be equally up to the task of rebuking those 'bible believing christians' who induldge in it.....If you don't agree i would
love to hear your justification for it....
And guess what. You and I deserve that same fate. SIN is what sends people to an eternity apart from God, Red. Your problem is that you don't share the same disgust and hatred of sin that God does. God said that we should "Be holy because I am holy". You compromise the Word of God around every turn and at every opportunity that you get. I honestly feel sorry for you on judgment day, because you will be like those whom Peter said:
having a disgust of sin does not equate to believing eternal torment to be either biblical or right, I will admit that I wont have the same disgust of sin as I am not God and I still mess things up from time to time and make mistakes, and if I compromise the word of God by believeing that God will do what he says and save his own world and creation then frankly I don't see it....
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
(2 Peter 2:1-3,12-17,18-20)
Peter could have been looking into a crystal ball and seeing Red77 when he wrote that statement 2,000 years ago under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
does this verse apply to all of those who don't believe the same and agree with you?
It's called a statment of truth. You should try it sometime! Do you or do you not teach that Hitler will be saved and we will be fellowshiping with him for all eternity?
Yes, as I've said loads of times already including in my opening answer to this post
It makes you "Nicer than God" to say that any person who has not come to God by HIS standards and through faith in HIS Son will get to go to Heaven anyway. Any person. Hitler, Buddha, your neighbor Joe, etc..... It doesn't matter! ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are deserving of judgment. The message that people need to hear from Christians is not this nicey-nice stuff. Should we act like jerks? NO. But we should tell the truth. The truth is offensive enough!
Ok I'm through... Now back to our regularly scheduled program.............
Who says we dont deserve to be judged? do you think that eternal torment is the only method of effective judment and punishment? you seem to have this idea that I believe that we don't pay for what we do in this life and it's anything but, I believe we reap what we sow and it's not going to be a garden picnic come judgement day, I just happen to believe that the outcome is constructive and with purpose which ET certainly doesnt achieve...
