ECT Never the Twain

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SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Interplanner said:
"To struggle with God." So what? It makes no difference as to what Paul is saying in statements about the Promised Seed, or why Judaism replaced the Promise with the Law, or how everything promised to Israel was fulfilled in the resurrection.

There simply is no need for, and no indication of, another round of Judaism to come and need to operate. Not the way the NT rings with fulfillment of all things that were a shadow or mere copy, and calls the whole thing 'the weak and miserable elements of the world.'

Acts 26: the very thing the worshippers in the temple try night and day to see fulfilled is already in Christ. This is quite remarkable statement since 'the conservative part of Judaism at the temple disdained what the apocalyptic zealots and sicarii would do violently, but believed there would be a son of David event that would restore the worship system and land to what it was' --Cornfeld, archeologist, commenting on the continuous zealot revolt in 1st century Judea.
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Who is Cornfield?
 
I

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patrick jane said:
Galatians 3:23 KJV -
Paul writes of the distant future when he says in Ephesians 1:10, “That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.”
However, the dispensation of the fulness of times will not appear before the instituted kingdom on earth that God promised to the nation Israel in Jeremiah 31 and in Hebrews 8. Hebrews 2:8describes this future hope of the kingdom to the Hebrews in Paul’s day:
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But it doesn't as you know it PJ. Just keep on through the commentary on it all through ch 10. It's about the salvation in Christ and his atonement for sins. Someone one here said God doesn't take away Israel's sins until some magic point in their end times sequentials. Talk about missing and refusing what is said in Heb 8-10.

But even about 'the land': all it says is the two tribal groups are unified again. And although not quoted here, the Jer 31 passage says all this comes about under THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS which he is since the Gospel happened!
 
I

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patrick jane said:
Galatians 3:23 KJV -
Paul writes of the distant future when he says in Ephesians 1:10, “That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.”
However, the dispensation of the fulness of times will not appear before the instituted kingdom on earth that God promised to the nation Israel in Jeremiah 31 and in Hebrews 8. Hebrews 2:8describes this future hope of the kingdom to the Hebrews in Paul’s day:
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The age of the fulness of times was not distant future either. He was looking at it as though from the past. It is now here in Christ. "So that not only in this age but the age to come..." v21 means that the thing is in place and endures on into the NHNE.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
But it doesn't as you know it PJ. Just keep on through the commentary on it all through ch 10. It's about the salvation in Christ and his atonement for sins. Someone one here said God doesn't take away Israel's sins until some magic point in their end times sequentials. Talk about missing and refusing what is said in Heb 8-10.

But even about 'the land': all it says is the two tribal groups are unified again. And although not quoted here, the Jer 31 passage says all this comes about under THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS which he is since the Gospel happened!
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The LORD has not yet roared out of Zion to take away THEIR sins, no matter how much you claim otherwise.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
The LORD has not yet roared out of Zion to take away THEIR sins, no matter how much you claim otherwise.
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Who is the Lion, but the slain Lamb of God, who alone is worthy to open the seals? Revelation 13:8; 10:3

Those (A-Mils) who believe in His present reign and rule, consider these events ongoing in the present tense.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Nang said:
Who is the Lion, but the slain Lamb of God, who alone is worthy to open the seals? Revelation 13:8; 10:3

Those (A-Mils) who believe in His present reign and rule, consider these events ongoing in the present tense.
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You never will tell us why the Passover and Day of Atonement were months apart.
Why?
 
I

Interplanner

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The Lamb of God took away (the debt) of sins. This is a fundamental Christian declaration without which a person is not Christian.
 
I

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There is no place in the NT where any of the apostles were persecuted for believing in a land restoration. It is irrelevant to what Christ commissioned them to do. Not that they wanted anyone to suffer with the zealot revolt.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Interplanner said:
There is no place in the NT where any of the apostles were persecuted for believing in a land restoration. It is irrelevant to what Christ commissioned them to do. Not that they wanted anyone to suffer with the zealot revolt.
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For the 9,714th time, the Apostles were concerned with the city and heavens.
Show us the land cancellation, and we will shut up.
 
I

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"There is no place where the apostles were persecuted for believing in a land restoration" because it would have agreed with Judaism.

Actually they brought it up twice, if 'look at the beautiful buildings' counts as one in Mt24A.

Both times the idea was flatly shut down.

I meant after they got going in their mission work. There is no place in the NT where anything close to D'ism is presented. There is no 'gosh, I never thought of that--those restoration of Israel prophecies; we better do something to fix that' mentality. There is definitely nothing like Tam's formula. Quite the opposite, with innovations on previous things like the wandering, the temple, the passover, the sabbath. There's the statement that the believers who lived in the OT never were seeking a land or city on this earth, but the one to come. and so forth.

All of which are hard to see if you let yourself be bombarded with Chafer's necessity.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
"There is no place where the apostles were persecuted for believing in a land restoration" because it would have agreed with Judaism.

Actually they brought it up twice, if 'look at the beautiful buildings' counts as one in Mt24A.

Both times the idea was flatly shut down.

I meant after they got going in their mission work. There is no place in the NT where anything close to D'ism is presented. There is no 'gosh, I never thought of that--those restoration of Israel prophecies; we better do something to fix that' mentality. There is definitely nothing like Tam's formula. Quite the opposite, with innovations on previous things like the wandering, the temple, the passover, the sabbath. There's the statement that the believers who lived in the OT never were seeking a land or city on this earth, but the one to come. and so forth.

All of which are hard to see if you let yourself be bombarded with Chafer's necessity.
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Made up.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nang said:
Who is the Lion, but the slain Lamb of God, who alone is worthy to open the seals? Revelation 13:8; 10:3

Those (A-Mils) who believe in His present reign and rule, consider these events ongoing in the present tense.
Click to expand...





The Lion will roar in the judgement of the whole world, but I don't see where the roaring has anything to do with justification from sins. And...in light of Heb 11-13, which Zion?
 
I

Interplanner

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The Zions are also a matter of shadow vs reality. Since we just had someone this past weekend here who did not know enough of the NT to know that it contains its own self-organizing structure of shadow-to-reality (Christ), in Heb and Col 2 and similar in Gal 4, take a shot at what the two Zions would mean in that built-in structure.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The Zions are also a matter of shadow vs reality. Since we just had someone this past weekend here who did not know enough of the NT to know that it contains its own self-organizing structure of shadow-to-reality (Christ), in Heb and Col 2 and similar in Gal 4, take a shot at what the two Zions would mean in that built-in structure.
Click to expand...

huh?
 
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