Matthew 12:40

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Squeaky,

I don't see where your post shows a phrase stating a certain number of days, and or a certain number of nights where it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?

I said
It shows they considered any part of a day a whole day. To many people today are straining out gnats.

Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)

One day after 6 years can be called 7 years. And one day before 8 years can be called 7 years.
 

rstrats

Active member
Squeaky,
re: "It shows they considered any part of a day a whole day."


That's an issue for a different topic.
 

rstrats

Active member
Squeaky,
re: "One day after 6 years can be called 7 years. And one day before 8 years can be called 7 years."

But where was a forecast daytime or a forecast night time ever called a daytime or a night time when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred?
 

rstrats

Active member
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".

2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.

6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.

I am simply asking if anyone knows of examples to support the idea of commonality?
 

daqq

Well-known member
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".

2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.

6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.

I am simply asking if anyone knows of examples to support the idea of commonality?

Genesis 2:7 KJV
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created,
in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

So according to this passage, and the context which follows, Elohim made earth and heavens in a day, (yom), and one may therefore know from the first chapter of Genesis that there are six yamim in a yom: for the heavens and the earth and all that is in them were created in six yamim, (see also, for example, Exo 20:11).

Numbers 7:10-12 KJV
10 And the princes offered for dedicating of the altar
in the day that it was anointed, even the princes offered their offering before the altar.
11 And the LORD said unto Moses, They shall offer their offering,
each prince on his day, for the dedicating of the altar.
12 And he that offered his offering
the first day was Nahshon the son of Amminadab, of the tribe of Judah:

All the princes of the tribes offered the korban of their tribes in the yom-day wherein the altar was anointed: and therefore one may know that in the day wherein the altar was anointed there are twelve yamim in the yom, (Num 7:12-83). And after the twelve princes had offered the korban for their respective tribes Moses repeats what he said at the opening of the passage as quoted above:

Numbers 7:84 KJV
84 This was the dedication of the altar,
in the day when it was anointed, by the princes of Israel: twelve chargers of silver, twelve silver bowls, twelve spoons of gold:

Then he lists everything that was offered in the yom-day wherein the twelve princes offered the korban of their tribes and repeats the phrase once again: showing that without a doubt he intends that all twelve tribes offered the korban of their tribes in a single yom-day:

Numbers 7:84-88 KJV
84 This was the dedication of the altar,
in the day when it was anointed, by the princes of Israel: twelve chargers of silver, twelve silver bowls, twelve spoons of gold:
85 Each charger of silver weighing an hundred and thirty shekels, each bowl seventy: all the silver vessels weighed two thousand and four hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
86 The golden spoons were twelve, full of incense, weighing ten shekels apiece, after the shekel of the sanctuary: all the gold of the spoons was an hundred and twenty shekels.
87 All the oxen for the burnt offering were twelve bullocks, the rams twelve, the lambs of the first year twelve, with their meat offering: and the kids of the goats for sin offering twelve.
88 And all the oxen for the sacrifice of the peace offerings were twenty and four bullocks, the rams sixty, the he goats sixty, the lambs of the first year sixty. This was the dedication of the altar, after that it was anointed.


In the final verse of the above the YLT, (Young's Literal Bible), notes that although the word for "day" is not in the text, (yom), it is indeed what is implied due to the preceding context of the passage:

Numbers 7:88 YLT
88 and all the oxen for the sacrifice of the peace-offerings are twenty and four bullocks, rams sixty, he-goats sixty, lambs, sons of a year, sixty; this is the dedication of the altar,
in the day of its being anointed.

Genesis 1 ~ Six Yamim in a Yom, (daily prayer times).
Numbers 7 ~ Twelve Yamim in a Yom, (twelve yamim-hours in a yom-day).

Thus in the very beginning, (Gen 1:1-31), there are six yamim in the yom, with no darkness or night: and in the Numbers passage above there are twelve yamim in the yom wherein the altar was anointed and the twelve princes of the twelve tribes offered the korban of their respective tribes. And without first understanding these things from the Torah one cannot understand the week of the crucifixion or even the true timeline which runs through the Gospel accounts, (the whole of the seventy shabuim-"weeks" of Daniel which Meshiah fulfilled in what was essentially a little over a one-year ministry, [plus some days, for your Lamb of Elohim shall be a male, perfect, "the son of a year", Exo 12:5 YLT]).
 

clefty

New member
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".

2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.

6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.

I am simply asking if anyone knows of examples to support the idea of commonality?

Reading quickly through the thread I missed anyone offering that as Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights does not mean He was to be buried for three days or nights/night and days

Jonah was not dead but confined for three days and nights...

He too was not dead but once Judas took the money His fate was sealed and He was to be confined in the heart of the wold...Jerusalem

He ate a meal (not the passover) went out of the room to the garden (why it was not the passover meal) arrested tried convicted beaten crucified laid in a tomb and gone from it within the time frame of Jonah in the belly...

Come first day of the week He was long gone...tomb found empty...He was risen...the day before...a Sabbath rest heals

The foundational premise for worship on Sunday ...that He rose on that day...is destroyed...

HalleluYah
 

rstrats

Active member
clefty,

re: re: He too was not dead but once Judas took the money His fate was sealed and He was to be confined in the heart of the wold...Jerusalem"

That's an issue for different topic.
 

clefty

New member
clefty,

re: re: He too was not dead but once Judas took the money His fate was sealed and He was to be confined in the heart of the wold...Jerusalem"

That's an issue for different topic.

It specifically addresses the three day and three night sign of Jonah...
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

New member
Much debate and confusion exists around Jesus' 3 days and 3 night in the Heart of the Earth. The answer to this is simpler than many believe. Here are the relevant verses:

Matthew 12
39He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mark 15:42-43
42 It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body.

Matthew 28:1
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

Jesus died at about 3pm on the 14th Aviv (Preparation day). He was put in the tomb just before sunset at about 6pm. He rose at sunrise on the 16th Aviv (The day of first fruits) at about 6am. This means was in the tomb for 3 days and 2 nights (about 36 hours). However the term 'Heart of the Earth' that Jesus spoke of was not the tomb. The Bible interprets the Bible and elsewhere we can find what Jesus meant by this phrase:

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts; murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

Therefore Jesus was talking about the wickedness of the whole Earth. The moment Jesus entered the wicked heart of the Earth was when He allowed Himself to be arrested and this is what He said at that moment:

Luke 22:53
“Every day I was with you in the temple courts and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour--when darkness reigns."

So it is from this moment that Jesus enters into the Heart of the Earth, which was around midnight on the 14th Aviv and means that He was indeed in the Heart of the Earth three days and three nights.
 

rstrats

Active member
clefty,
re: "It specifically addresses the three day and three night sign of Jonah..."

But that is not the issue with regard to this topic.
 

rstrats

Active member
WatchmanOnTheWall,
re: "So it is from this moment that Jesus enters into the Heart of the Earth, which was around midnight on the 14th Aviv and means that He was indeed in the Heart of the Earth three days and three nights. "

And again, that is not the issue for the purpose of this topic.
 

clefty

New member
clefty,
re: "It specifically addresses the three day and three night sign of Jonah..."

But that is not the issue with regard to this topic.

“they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day” is necessary as they insert an understanding not suggested by scripture...that He was dead 3 nights two days or 3 days and 2 nights as being 3 days and 3 nights...
 

rstrats

Active member
clefty,
re: "'they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day' is necessary as they insert an understanding not suggested by scripture...that He was dead 3 nights two days or 3 days and 2 nights as being 3 days and 3 nights..."

But not necessary for the purpose of this topic which is clarified in post #465.
 

clefty

New member
clefty,
re: "'they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day' is necessary as they insert an understanding not suggested by scripture...that He was dead 3 nights two days or 3 days and 2 nights as being 3 days and 3 nights..."

But not necessary for the purpose of this topic which is clarified in post #465.

Ok...

After 32 pages hope you get your topic finally and satisfactorily addressed....
 

daqq

Well-known member
Ok...

After 32 pages hope you get your topic finally and satisfactorily addressed....

Lol, this same topic has been ongoing in multiple forums for multiple years under the same topic name by the same author/screen name: just about no matter what you say the answer is almost always the same, (I kid you not). :chuckle:
 

rstrats

Active member
daqq,
re: "...this same topic has been ongoing in multiple forums for multiple years under the same topic name by the same author/screen name: just about no matter what you say the answer is almost always the same..."


All you need to do is provide the requested examples and you'll get a different answer.
 

daqq

Well-known member
daqq,
re: "...this same topic has been ongoing in multiple forums for multiple years under the same topic name by the same author/screen name: just about no matter what you say the answer is almost always the same..."


All you need to do is provide the requested examples and you'll get a different answer.

If you understood the examples from the scripture, which I posted to you previously above, you would understand that the "three yamim" of darkness so thick it could be felt, which occurred in Egypt, (Exodus 10:21-23), are not "three days" at all but three yamim-hours: three hours of darkness during one twelve-hour day, just as during the parting of the Red Sea, and just as at Golgotha. There are indeed three yamim written in the scripture, (which are always unfortunately and mistakenly translated "three days"), wherein the statements have nothing to do with three twelve hour days and three twelve hour nights or three twenty-four hour days and nights. You are never going to get your answer, nor the answer, unless and until your "hear" the scripture.
 
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