ECT MAD is error perfected.

[revpete]

No.

Looking back, we see prophecies of Messiah suffering and dying in the O.T. So that was not a secret.

What WAS a newly revealed secret was that His death would open the door to worldwide salvation for Jew and Gentile alike, despite Israel's failure to be the nation of priests God had intended them to be.

Has God cast away His people Israel for their "failure" then? Rom. 11: 1,2,15. Isn't the salvation of the Gentiles prophesied in the OT, Isa 11:10; 42, 1,6; 49:6 and numerous other places? So how was it a newly revealed secret? Also, what about the Sovereignly of God in all this?

Pete

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Do you obey all of Jesus' commands?

Do you?

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
Mat 5:2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
Mat 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Mat 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
Mat 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[musterion]

Has God cast away His people Israel for their "failure" then? Rom. 11: 1,2,15. Isn't the salvation of the Gentiles prophesied in the OT, Isa 11:10; 42, 1,6; 49:6 and numerous other places? So how was it a newly revealed secret?

Pete ��

Good question. Gentile salvation was never a secret. The stated plan ever since Moses was that God would reach the whole world through redeemed Israel (Exodus 19:6). And it would have happened just that way, had Israel repented. The now-revealed secret, or part of it, was that God would do it without Israel.

Also, what about the Sovereignly of God in all this?

If anything, His having an unrevealed secret that He'd planned in eternity past, and which He brought about despite the disobedience of Israel, only emphasizes and exalts His sovereignty! Isn't that amazing?

 

[Nang]

Good question. Gentile salvation was never a secret. The stated plan ever since Moses was that God would reach the whole world through redeemed Israel (Exodus 19:6).

This seems to contradict what you said in a recent post:

"What WAS a newly revealed secret was that His death would open the door to worldwide salvation for Jew and Gentile alike, despite Israel's failure to be the nation of priests God had intended them to be."

So which is it? Since Moses, God's stated plan was to save the whole world, or not until Christ's death was the door opened for worldwide salvation?

Can you reconcile these two statements?

And it would have happened just that way, had Israel repented. The now-revealed secret, or part of it, was that God would do it without Israel.

Are you claiming God had to change plans? Because national Israel somehow thwarted His will?

What happened to the attributes of the Sovereignty and Immutability of God . . or is this a venture into Open Theism?

If anything, His having an unrevealed secret that He'd planned in eternity past, and which He brought about despite the disobedience of Israel, only emphasizes and exalts His sovereignty! Isn't that amazing?

But you earlier said that since the time of Moses God planned to save the world . . .

Which is not accurate either, as a matter of fact.

God chose souls for redemption before creation, and this good news was promised, beginning with Eve, in Genesis 3:15 and believed upon by a lineage of non-Jews, centuries before there was a Jewish nation.

IOW's God has from the beginning of time, called His people out of the world, into His Kingdom, and given them everlasting life, according to Covenant promises.

The Mosaic Covenant was nothing new . . . but a republication of the Law as given to Adam . . . but in much more detail. The purpose of the Covenant with Moses (Law) was to show men their sins and to draw a remnant to their need of the promised Savior (who was prefigured throughout all the Law and Tabernacle/Temple ordinances).

 

[john w]

Do you?

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
Mat 5:2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
Mat 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Mat 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
Mat 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Do you?

Lev. 11 KJV

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

15 Every raven after his kind;

16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even.

25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

26 The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even.

28 And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.

29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,

30 And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.

31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.

33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.

34 Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.

35 And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean and shall be unclean unto you.

36 Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

37 And if any part of their carcase fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean.

38 But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.

39 And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even.

40 And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.

42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.

43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

44 For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

45 For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.


So there.

 

[Right Divider]

MAD is silly, among other reasons, since it rejects the disciples - the one's Jesus handpicked to train during his ministry so that they could continue his ministry after he ascended. MAD tosses them out because it is convenient for their theology to ignore what they said as if it is restricted to Israel - nevermind that the gentiles have been grafted onto Israel and thereby are partakers in the promises given to them.

They are effectively tossing Jesus' entire ministry out the window as if it didn't apply to them. They cannot rightly be called Christians - aka followers of Christ.

You, like SOOOOOOO many others, are mocking a caricature of what we believe. I can see from the rest of you comments that you are completely ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches and prefer the fanciful myth of Churchianity.

For ONE we do NOT reject the 12. We simply understand the mission that Christ gave to them and the ONE that He gave to Paul.

Please, oh wonderful master of all things scriptural, explain why Jesus called ONE more apostle when He had already sent TWELVE to ALL THE WORLD?

Why did the 12 and Paul agree to segregate their ministries along the lines of CIRCUMCISION and UNCIRCUMCISION?

I anxiously await your wondrous teachings.

P.S. You're the one that took forever to understand the Monty Hall Problem. Do you think that maybe you have the same problem with the Mid-Acts dispensational understanding of scripture? I think so.

 

[musterion]

Gentile salvation was never a secret. The stated plan ever since Moses was that God would reach the whole world through redeemed Israel (Exodus 19:6).

This seems to contradict what you said in a recent post:

"What WAS a newly revealed secret was that His death would open the door to worldwide salvation for Jew and Gentile alike, despite Israel's failure to be the nation of priests God had intended them to be."

No contradiction. Have your husband drive you to get your bifocals checked.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Good question. Gentile salvation was never a secret. The stated plan ever since Moses was that God would reach the whole world through redeemed Israel (Exodus 19:6). And it would have happened just that way, had Israel repented. The now-revealed secret, or part of it, was that God would do it without Israel.

Amen, Jesus said it also:

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

If anything, His having an unrevealed secret that He'd planned in eternity past, and which He brought about despite the disobedience of Israel, only emphasizes and exalts His sovereignty! Isn't that amazing?

yes, amen :cloud9:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You, like SOOOOOOO many others, are mocking a caricature of what we believe. I can see from the rest of you comments that you are completely ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches and prefer the fanciful myth of Churchianity.

For ONE we do NOT reject the 12. We simply understand the mission that Christ gave to them and the ONE that He gave to Paul.

Please, oh wonderful master of all things scriptural, explain why Jesus called ONE more apostle when He had already sent TWELVE to ALL THE WORLD?

Why did the 12 and Paul agree to segregate their ministries along the lines of CIRCUMCISION and UNCIRCUMCISION?

I anxiously await your wondrous teachings.

P.S. You're the one that took forever to understand the Monty Hall Problem. Do you think that maybe you have the same problem with the Mid-Acts dispensational understanding of scripture? I think so.

I think he's still having problems making, "ice-cubes?" He's
still young and liberal, wait until he's old and, still doesn't
know how to make ice cubes!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Do you obey all of Jesus' commands?

He'll take the 5th on that question!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You only evidence you have no concept of the gospel or the kingdom of God. John 3:3, I Corinthians 2:10-14

The ONLY evidence you have that you're making any sense is, you're
taking your word for it!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

This is the stupidest thing I've read on TOL this morning, and I've been reading Meshak.

They run in packs! Sorta like wolves!

 

[PhilipJames]

The now-revealed secret, or part of it, was that God would do it without Israel.
?

Hello musterion,

You may want to rethink that statement. The apostles ARE Israel (yes Paul too!).

Romans 11: 1-5

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? Of course not! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

"Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life."

But what is God's response to him? "I have left for myself seven thousand men who have not knelt to Baal."

So also at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

And it is THIS remnant upon which Christ built HIS Church!

Merry Christmas!
PJ

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You, like SOOOOOOO many others, are mocking a caricature of what we believe. I can see from the rest of you comments that you are completely ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches and prefer the fanciful myth of Churchianity.

For ONE we do NOT reject the 12. We simply understand the mission that Christ gave to them and the ONE that He gave to Paul.

Please, oh wonderful master of all things scriptural, explain why Jesus called ONE more apostle when He had already sent TWELVE to ALL THE WORLD?

Why did the 12 and Paul agree to segregate their ministries along the lines of CIRCUMCISION and UNCIRCUMCISION?

I anxiously await your wondrous teachings.

P.S. You're the one that took forever to understand the Monty Hall Problem. Do you think that maybe you have the same problem with the Mid-Acts dispensational understanding of scripture? I think so.

Paul was an example for new believers who like Paul had not walked with Christ as the 12 had.

It was important that men see that Christ can speak to them as He did to Paul.

Has Christ spoken to you?

for what happened to Paul must happen to you if you follow the example of Paul.

Do you live like Paul?

LA

 

[Right Divider]

Paul was an example for new believers who like Paul had not walked with Christ as the 12 had.

It was important that men see that Christ can speak to them as He did to Paul.

Has Christ spoken to you?

for what happened to Paul must happen to you if you follow the example of Paul.

Do you live like Paul?

LA

Well I'm not a tent maker living in the Middle-east.

Christ spoke DIRECTLY to Paul. Paul could QUOTE the exact words that Christ SPOKE to him (word for word).

No, Christ does NOT speak to us that way.

But I do follow Paul as he follows Christ. I follow Christ THIS WAY. The way that is CURRENT. Not as a Jew under the Law as the TWELVE were.

 

[csuguy]

You, like SOOOOOOO many others, are mocking a caricature of what we believe. I can see from the rest of you comments that you are completely ignorant of what the Bible actually teaches and prefer the fanciful myth of Churchianity.

For ONE we do NOT reject the 12. We simply understand the mission that Christ gave to them and the ONE that He gave to Paul.

Please, oh wonderful master of all things scriptural, explain why Jesus called ONE more apostle when He had already sent TWELVE to ALL THE WORLD?

Why did the 12 and Paul agree to segregate their ministries along the lines of CIRCUMCISION and UNCIRCUMCISION?

I anxiously await your wondrous teachings.

You do reject Christ and the disciples if you think that their teachings don't apply to you. It is utter foolishness to say that a new Gospel was ushered in with Paul out of nowhere in place of the ministry that Jesus entrusted to the 12 to carry out - the 12 whom he handpicked and trained, and who received the HS.

Paul himself never declares a new gospel in opposition to that which was given to the disciples - indeed, he makes it clear that he is only one of many teaching the Gospel. The same Gospel, for Christ is not divided is he (1 Cor 1)? But that's what MAD proposes.

You also must ignore Paul to hold to MAD, for Paul tells us that the gentiles were grafted onto Israel - thereby partaking of the promises and blessings of Israel, the New Covenant. Salvation is from the Jews, as Jesus declared in John 4. Thus what was said to Israel applies to the gentiles. There is no gentile nor greek, male nor female, slave nor free in Christ - they are all one in the same. Paul declares this several times throughout his epistles, as does Peter.

P.S. You're the one that took forever to understand the Monty Hall Problem. Do you think that maybe you have the same problem with the Mid-Acts dispensational understanding of scripture? I think so.

Your personal attacks demonstrate your wisdom and loving Christian nature I am no mathematician/statistician, never claimed to be, but that is irrelevant to the matters before us.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Well I'm not a tent maker living in the Middle-east.

That is not the example Paul is talking about--

Php 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Php 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Php 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Php 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Christ spoke DIRECTLY to Paul. Paul could QUOTE the exact words that Christ SPOKE to him (word for word).

So can I.

No, Christ does NOT speak to us that way.

So He has not spoken to you.

But I do follow Paul as he follows Christ. I follow Christ THIS WAY. The way that is CURRENT. Not as a Jew under the Law as the TWELVE were.

Christ ministered as one under the new covenant to His (many)disciples, and introduced them to the conditions under which they would live after the Holy Spirit was poured out on them also.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

LA

 

[Right Divider]

You do reject Christ and the disciples if you think that their teachings don't apply to you. It is utter foolishness to say that a new Gospel was ushered in with Paul out of nowhere in place of the ministry that Jesus entrusted to the 12 to carry out - the 12 whom he handpicked and trained, and who received the HS.

Go ahead and pile on your ignorance.

Jesus also HAND PICKED Paul apart from the TWELVE. But you think that you should still follow the teaching of the TWELVE Israelites UNDER THE LAW.

Do you follow Matthew 23:1-3? I'll bet not.

Paul himself never declares a new gospel in opposition to that which was given to the disciples - indeed, he makes it clear that he is only one of many teaching the Gospel. The same Gospel, for Christ is not divided is he (1 Cor 1)? But that's what MAD proposes.

Paul most certainly did claim just that. The old "Christ divided" taken complete out of context won't fool me.

You also must ignore Paul to hold to MAD, for Paul tells us that the gentiles were grafted onto Israel - thereby partaking of the promises and blessings of Israel, the New Covenant. Salvation is from the Jews, as Jesus declared in John 4. Thus what was said to Israel applies to the gentiles. There is no gentile nor greek, male nor female, slave nor free in Christ - they are all one in the same. Paul declares this several times throughout his epistles, as does Peter.

Nobody but Paul declares the dispensation of the grace of God.

Your personal attacks demonstrate your wisdom and loving Christian nature I am no mathematician/statistician, never claimed to be, but that is irrelevant to the matters before us.

Actually this illustration was NOT a personal attack but a clear demonstration that you have trouble accepting the TRUTH, even when it was CLEARLY and REPEATED shown to you. You're doing it again.

 

[Right Divider]

<cut>
So can I.

Showing yourself clueless once again.

So He has not spoken to you.

Showing yourself clueless once again.

No, LA, Jesus does NOT speak to you like He spoke to Paul.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Showing yourself clueless once again.


Showing yourself clueless once again.

No, LA, Jesus does NOT speak to you like He spoke to Paul.

How do you know Jesus has not spoken to me like He spoke to Paul.

Not in the same words, but He has.

and He has spoken to many many others since Paul.

You assume that Paul learnt only through Jesus speaking to Him as He did at the first.

Paul spent much time in the word of God after he already knew a great deal of it, but it required revelation on the word, not necessitating a personal appearance of the Lord.

When Paul said he did not learn the gospel from men, he did learn much about the gospel through men from the Lord.

Paul was an example remember.

Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Act 13:3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
Act 13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.


LA