John Calvin's Nazi God.

[freelight]

By your own admission and posting, you are not a Christian.

My encouragement to take a look at the historic creeds of the Christian church was a simple gesture.

I'm not as concerned about staying on topic as I am in pointing out to unbelievers the dire state of their soul.

Those who do not confess the Godhead as stated in the creeds of the Church, have no excuse.

I will not address this with you again, and will not debate at all.

If the Lord pleases, may you come to the fullness of faith in His Son, Jesus Christ.

No worries bud.

I was jumped on, so rose to my own defense,....did not mean to put you down in anyway, and I understand you were just sharing what you felt was pertinent for my own research and evaluation. I responded accordingly. I choose to discuss Christology from a more Unitarian angle for the sake of 'creative dialogue', and do not see any benefit of holding an orthodox Trinitarian view of the Godhead to any advantage or necessity, especially as a qualification to make anyone a true 'Christian' since this is only the CLAIM of the Orthodox themselves. - its therefore a self-serving and self-defining system. The trinity-concept is not even necessary for salvation. In any case, my views on Calvinism, free will and predestination stand, here and in other threads. My previous posts on 'foreknowledge' and 'predestination' await further discussion.

 

[freelight]

By your own admission and posting, you are not a Christian.

I am who I am,...and in that native identity, I stand. I can don a 'label' if I choose, or not. I can also switch labels at any given time, if I find one label more pleasing or appealing than another. And still, what I am, I am - this 'I Am' is not separate from its source. I'll let you guess that 'source'

 

[daqq]

I am who I am,...and in that native identity, I stand. I can don a 'label' if I choose, or not. I can also switch labels at any given time, if I find one label more pleasing or appealing than another. And still, what I am, I am - this 'I Am' is not separate from its source. I'll let you guess that 'source'

Hey! Paul said the same:

1 Corinthians 15:10a W/H
10a χάριτι δὲ θεοῦ εἰμι ὅ εἰμι,
10a But by the grace of God, I AM WHO-WHAT-WHICH I AM,

I guess Paul is God according to most of the Trinity arguments made around here . . .
Is the Trinity the new topic now ??? Cool . . .

 

[freelight]

Hey! Paul said the same:

1 Corinthians 15:10a W/H
10a χάριτι δὲ θεοῦ εἰμι ὅ εἰμι,
10a But by the grace of God, I AM WHO-WHAT-WHICH I AM,

I guess Paul is God according to most of the Trinity arguments made around here . . .
Is the Trinity the new topic now ??? Cool . . .

I was just acknowledging my 'I Am Presence' within the soul - the spirit of God within. - true, by the grace of God we are who we are, and this resonates on an ontological level with God our source, "ehyeh asher ehyeh", since He is the ground, wellspring and spirit-essence that is the source of our own life and consciousness...there is no other When reduced down to the core-essence,...I am that. (tat tvam asi)...but this is a higher teaching within non-duality (Advaita Vedanta).

Anyways,...staying within 'Calvinism', our previous points on foreknowledge, predestination and free will would appear to be a good place to continue, or anything else related. Whatcha think?

 

[Lon]

Sorry, you were the one butting in with the demeaning, condescending words, and put downs.

Condescending: Yes, it is necessary to tell ignorant people when they are both ignorant and above their paygrade.

Not me.

Being polite about it is worse than me pushing the point. You disdain Christianity other than a few 'nuggets' that coincide with your pick'n'choose theology. You might see that as respect, but it isn't. Like here, you challenge faith. It may be part/parcel with having been LDS, but those gurus were also this blatantly disrespectful without the education or integrity. Making up Lamenites and golden plates is hardly praiseworthy behavior. You being duped? Understood, but you have shunned it some time ago and you've been here long enough to know when you are doing it, thus are doing so purposefully. Your theology still has "you will be like gods." Satan was not trying to help with that John 10:10

- rather rude and arrogant.

Proverbs 26:4 or Proverbs 26:5? :idunno: There is a point when it becomes folly rather than grace. It DOESN'T matter if I am arrogant or not. It doesn't matter if you see it as rude or not. It ONLY matters if I am right or wrong. Leave your feelings out of it.

Look at your attitude and words, with all the pretense of piety and smug superiority of religiousity.

Show me smug... :idunno: Piety? It only matters whether I am right or not. Delivery is the least of your problems but rather the content and you are indeed wrong. Superiority? All those who are in Christ side with that which is inherently superior. It cannot be otherwise: It is the truth.

- and then to say I'm not being respectful for calling you out on your pompous judgments?

...nor honest with us or yourself. You KNEW when you posted your Arian stance, in arrogance, what you were doing. It was a direct challenge to Christianity and you well knew it. Tell yourself some more lies. You know you were challenging Christianity and worse...with little more than opinion and whim and no vested degree of study. I have those degrees after my name specifically because study shows a man approved. Lack thereof is exactly your audacity. You are incredibly pompous.

- I find that comical. If you want to challenge my commentary on Calvinism, 'free will', 'predestination', etc....which I've amply addressed...do so, but do so respectfully...or move along.

Of course you do. I don't care what you find comical or what irritates you. That simply flies back to emoting rather than thinking. I'm calling you on your Unit-arian audacity here (both the dumbness of not recognizing that trinitarian also means -une AND that you are audacious with your ignorance as well. You have nothing to stand on. There is nothing to address other than these two problems: Your ignorance of biblical truth and your arrogance in purporting it in a thread that has nothing to do with it. I generally give you the last word, as I do with any immature being on TOL. There is a point where Proverbs 26:4 moves into verse 5. Think a bit further and harder beyond your knee-jerk Proverbs 27:6

 

[Lon]

Good thing you quoted that, (he probably still has me on ignore).

Yep, I would have missed it and you may still not like the answer so it may have been better if I hadn't?

Same old flaming accusations, eh Lon? You want on-topic? Okay, back to the topic:
Here is one of your Calvinist commie-rats auctioning off "Mr. Judaism" . . .
Ehem, with an opening bid of $4.50, (four U.S. dollars and fifty cents).

Searching for Man's intrinsic value


This is not even to mention the sick disgusting things he said in one of my own threads.
You do not have a proverbial leg to stand on Mr. self-appointed head of Gestapo thread police.
The brown shirts are coming, the brown shirts are coming, meh, it's just megalodon Lon . . .
(with his eyes glazed over again) . . . :chuckle:

This is sad on a couple of levels. First of all, neither of your comments here are about the thread, either to my megalomania or DialM's posts from 2 years ago. Second, you didn't even get his point: "If we are NOT created in God's image, the whole value of man would be the sum of only his/her physical parts (i.e. the collective of what makes him/her up chemically). I'm not terribly familiar with DialM, but from what he was saying: "Man is worth more than his/her mere chemical make-up."

If you missed that, yes, I'm smarter than you and yes, you should take my correction because rather than being an arrogant putz, I'm trying to help you, even if I'm not as nice about it as I maybe should be. Right is right. Yes I care about those without the ability to discern for themselves and yes, as long as you aren't arrogant about what you don't know, I will try to be kind. In the end, pay more attention to what is 'right' more than poor delivery. I try and mull over what a punk says as much as what someone kind says, on TOL. What is right is more important than if I like the guy/gal who is saying it. I'd encourage you to try and make that your motto as well. Our culture pushes just the opposite and that's part of the problem with generation x and those who have come after. Love does make the world-go-round in some ways, but the Beatles were wrong, it isn't all we need. We need the truth, even if it is unkind at times.

 

[daqq]

I was just acknowledging my 'I Am Presence' within the soul - the spirit of God within. - true, by the grace of God we are who we are, and this resonates on an ontological level with God our source, "ehyeh asher ehyeh", since He is the ground, wellspring and spirit-essence that is the source of our own life and consciousness...there is no other

:thumb:

Jeremiah 2:12-13
12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.
13 For My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and have hewn of themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no [living] water.

Anyways,...staying within 'Calvinism', our previous points on foreknowledge, predestination and free will would appear to be a good place to continue, or anything else related. Whatcha think?

Looks like Lon has responded to get things back on track.

Anyway my actual point was that Lon's arrogance is the very proof that his doctrine is truly in catastrophic error. That is, just as the other poster whom I quoted shows also in his arrogance, ("dialm"), that the doctrine of Total Depravity dehumanizes human life and human beings to the point of viewing anyone who disagrees with their elitist theology as depraved demon possessed losers who are going to a literal hell of eternal conscious torment for no other reason than that their version of God Almighty predestined it to be so before the foundation of the world. This dehumanizing of other human beings into subhuman status is the very same thing that did indeed occur in Nazi Germany; and there were indeed pamphlets and leaflets containing the writings and sermons of Luther all over the streets of Nazi Germany leading up to World War 2. Lon is a glaring example and product of the Total Depravity doctrine and it shows in his Total Depravity and lack of love for other human beings who post here.

 

[freelight]

:thumb:

Jeremiah 2:12-13
12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.
13 For My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and have hewn of themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no [living] water.



Looks like Lon has responded to get things back on track.

Anyway my actual point was that Lon's arrogance is the very proof that his doctrine is truly in catastrophic error. That is, just as the other poster whom I quoted shows also in his arrogance, ("dialm"), that the doctrine of Total Depravity dehumanizes human life and human beings to the point of viewing anyone who disagrees with their elitist theology as depraved demon possessed losers who are going to a literal hell of eternal conscious torment for no other reason than that their version of God Almighty predestined it to be so before the foundation of the world. This dehumanizing of other human beings into subhuman status is the very same thing that did indeed occur in Nazi Germany; and there were indeed pamphlets and leaflets containing the writings and sermons of Luther all over the streets of Nazi Germany leading up to World War 2. Lon is a glaring example and product of the Total Depravity doctrine and it shows in his Total Depravity and lack of love for other human beings who post here.

:thumb:


Word!

Yes, its pretty sad.

 

[freelight]

Looks like Lon has responded to get things back on track.

Anyway my actual point was that Lon's arrogance is the very proof that his doctrine is truly in catastrophic error. That is, just as the other poster whom I quoted shows also in his arrogance, ("dialm"), that the doctrine of Total Depravity dehumanizes human life and human beings to the point of viewing anyone who disagrees with their elitist theology as depraved demon possessed losers who are going to a literal hell of eternal conscious torment for no other reason than that their version of God Almighty predestined it to be so before the foundation of the world. This dehumanizing of other human beings into subhuman status is the very same thing that did indeed occur in Nazi Germany; and there were indeed pamphlets and leaflets containing the writings and sermons of Luther all over the streets of Nazi Germany leading up to World War 2. Lon is a glaring example and product of the Total Depravity doctrine and it shows in his Total Depravity and lack of love for other human beings who post here.

Spewing vitriol is not kind, edifying or constructive. Sadly he judges others as 'ignorant' showing his own abject ignorance of the things he's presuming. So much for "let all things be done for edification". - it still remains, we shall all be judged by our words and treatment of others before the bar of God, and 'love' is the measuring rod and rule.

 

[Lon]

:thumb:

Jeremiah 2:12-13
12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.
13 For My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and have hewn of themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no [living] water.

He isn't a Christian and does not believe 1) Christ's words nor 2) in His substitutionary death on the Cross. I don't remember how much heresy you espouse so perhaps that's fine with you... He and Caino are very much against the message of the Cross as scripture lays it out and they do not believe either the NT or OT are accurate.

Looks like Lon has responded to get things back on track.

I don't believe it is yet engaging any particular Calvinist concern.

Anyway my actual point was that Lon's arrogance is the very proof that his doctrine is truly in catastrophic error.

:dizzy: There is no way that makes any logical sense. There is no connection between arrogance and wrong, just how well they may or may not execute etiquette. The Samaritan woman made a similar logical mistake thinking which mountain she worshipped on was what made worship acceptable or not. She wasn't thinking clearly. Jesus told her that one must worship in Truth, not just the feel or vibe.

just as the other poster whom I quoted shows also in his arrogance, ("dialm"), that the doctrine of Total Depravity dehumanizes human life and human beings to the point of viewing anyone who disagrees with their elitist theology as depraved demon possessed losers who are going to a literal hell of eternal conscious torment for no other reason than that their version of God Almighty predestined it to be so before the foundation of the world. This dehumanizing of other human beings into subhuman status is the very same thing that did indeed occur in Nazi Germany; and there were indeed pamphlets and leaflets containing the writings and sermons of Luther all over the streets of Nazi Germany leading up to World War 2. Lon is a glaring example and product of the Total Depravity doctrine and it shows in his Total Depravity and lack of love for other human beings who post here.

Sorry, this isn't just Calvinism. It is literally all of Christianity. Cults don't get to try to rewrite Christianity with 3rd grade educations. I cannot begin to explain how terrible a shipwrecked education leaves one. You literally are left to every wind and doctrine instead of being studious and wise. Cults 'make it up' as they go and/or follow oddballs who made-it up as they went. Learn to actually think and respect those who can actually think. Jesus said those who worship the Father MUST do so from Spirit AND Truth. One without the other is not worshipping the Father.

 

[Lon]

Spewing vitriol is not kind, edifying or constructive. Sadly he judges others as 'ignorant' showing his own abject ignorance of the things he's presuming.

Er, no. You aren't even on topic Mr. Random. YOU are ignorant going off topic. There are no 'three fingers' other than addressing YOU off-topic.

So much for "let all things be done for edification"

...your version of edification anyway... lain:

- it still remains, we shall all be judged by our words and treatment of others before the bar of God, and 'love' is the measuring rod and rule.

:nono: I just gave you two verses:
"Correct a fool in his folly."
"Don't correct a fool in his folly."

The former because he might listen and such is the hope. The later..."because he will despise you."

Imho and from my observation, it is wholly the 'fool' (ignorant but correctable OR arrogantly stupid), for which the direction is given. It has nothing to do with the studious intelligent guide other than finding out through trial and error which is which.

 

[daqq]

[/COLOR]
He isn't a Christian and does not believe 1) Christ's words nor 2) in His substitutionary death on the Cross. I don't remember how much heresy you espouse so perhaps that's fine with you... He and Caino are very much against the message of the Cross as scripture lays it out and they do not believe either the NT or OT are accurate.



I don't believe it is yet engaging any particular Calvinist concern.

:dizzy: There is no way that makes any logical sense. There is no connection between arrogance and wrong, just how well they may or may not execute etiquette. The Samaritan woman made a similar logical mistake thinking which mountain she worshipped on was what made worship acceptable or not. She wasn't thinking clearly. Jesus told her that one must worship in Truth, not just the feel or vibe.
Sorry, this isn't just Calvinism. It is literally all of Christianity. Cults don't get to try to rewrite Christianity with 3rd grade educations. I cannot begin to explain how terrible a shipwrecked education leaves one. You literally are left to every wind and doctrine instead of being studious and wise. Cults 'make it up' as they go and/or follow oddballs who made-it up as they went. Learn to actually think and respect those who can actually think. Jesus said those who worship the Father MUST do so from Spirit AND Truth. One without the other is not worshipping the Father.

We have already had the discussion about your high priced education which supposedly makes you superior. You don't remember? I said I would go ask for my money back and you erupted, spewing your venom until you managed to get me banned from the Trinity thread, which was no doubt your deceitful objective to begin with because your high priced education and image of yourself were being trounced. You only show that you view yourself as superior, and even worse, that you feel the way you do because you PAID someone else to "know" God, (in violation of the admonishments in His Word).

 

[Lon]

John Calvin taught that God predestinates people to hell before they are born. This is probably one of the worst doctrines ever conceived by the un-regenerated, twisted, perverted mind of man. What is even more shocking is that there are tens of thousands that accept and believe his doctrine. John Calvin also taught that some people were the elect and that they were special to God, while others were fuel for the fire.

You believe He did that too. He created men, knowing that the road was narrow. He knew/knows most will not enter the narrow way YET predetermined that they would exist.

When Israel sinned and knew it, one way they eliminated the guilt of the sin, was to attach it to a goat and put it out of the city, hence "Scapegoat." You simply scapegoat Calvinism for problems your own theology carries. It is just simpler for you to scapegoat than to think about the inherent problems in your own theology. So be it. God looks after the downtrodden. Psalm 72:4 Isaiah 1:17

Hitler believed

Spoiler

that the Jewish people were the scum of the earth and should be annihilated. He murdered about 6 million of them before he was stopped. Hitler also believed that the German people were the master race and that they were special to God. If you were not German you were sub human. Hitler not only murdered Jews, he also murdered tens of thousands of people with physical and mental defects. He was trying to get rid of everyone that was offensive to the German master race.

Are there some parallels here between what John Calvin believed and what Hitler believed? I think that there is. They both believe that humans should be destroyed. This is the Spirit of Satan. Satan is the destroyer. I believe that when God announced to the angels in heaven that he was going to create a race of humans that would be greater than angels and that the angels would be subject to them, that there was rebellion in heaven, Revelation 12:7. Satan and his group were expelled from heaven and are still here on the earth today. They are demons. One of these demons got into the mind of John Calvin and convinced him that God predestinates people to hell before they are born.

I have found that people reflect in their lives what they believe about God. Muslims believe that Allah is a warring God. The Koran says, "Kill the infidels" (unbelievers) This is why Muslims think that they are doing God service when they murder people. Hitler thought he was doing God service by murdering the Jews. Hitler's excuse for murdering the Jews was that they were responsible for the crucifixion of Christ and because of that they needed to terminated.

John Calvin was the tyrant of Geneva. Here are some of his recorded atrocities.

1. During the ravages of the pestilence in 1545 more than twenty men and women were burned alive.
2. From 1542 to 1546 fifty eight judgments of death and twenty six decrees of banishment were passed.
3. During the years 1558 and 1559 the cases of various punishments for all sorts of offences amounted to four hundred and fourteen.
4. One burgher smiled while attending baptism: three days in jail.
5. Another,tired out on a hot summer day, went to sleep during a sermon, was sentenced to prison.
6. Some workmen ate pastry at breakfast: three days on bread and water.
7. Two burgers played skittles: prison.
8. Two others diced for a quarter bottle of wine: prison.
9. A blind fiddler played and danced: expelled from the city.
10. Another praised Castello's translation of the Bible: expelled from the city.
11. A girl was caught skating. A widow threw herself on her husbands grave. A burgher offered his neighbor a pinch of snuff during a divine service: they were summoned befor the Consistory, exhorted and orfdered to do penance.
!2. Some cheerful fellows at Epiphany stuck a bean in a cake: twenty four hours on bread and water.
13. A couple of peasants talked about business matters on coming out of church: prison.
14. A man played cards: he was pilloried with a pack hung around his neck.
15. Another sang riotiously in the streets was told, "they could go sing elsewhere" this meaning that he was banished from the city.
16. Two burgees had a brawl: executed.

The death penalty against heresy, idolatry and blasphemy and barbarous customs of torture were retained. Attendance at public worship was commanded on penalty of three sols. Watchmen were appointed to see that people went to church. The members of the Consistory visited every house to see that people went to church. The members of the Consistory visited every house once a year to examine the faith and the morals of the family> Every unseemly word and act on the streets was reported and the offenders were cited before the Consistory to be either censored and warned, or to be handed over to the council for severer punishment. (Compiled by Jack Moorman)

Just before Hitler began murdering the Jews he imposed sever sanctions upon them. If John Calvin would have lived long enough he would have become another Hitler.

Anybody associated with politics is also paired to the atrocities, right or wrong, evidence or lack thereof. Two Points: We don't get to re-try Calvin or Luther, or anybody else. Comparing may be of help or service but generally is not either and does neither. Accusations can fly all day long and it isn't that important because you and I only have what is written and opinions aren't even a dime a dozen these days. Second: I don't follow "Paul or Apollos" nor do I follow Calvin, so it doesn't matter what he did to me. THE ONLY THING of import where Calvin is concerned, is whether he was right or wrong, even if he was or wasn't a putz.

Elitism is one of the more serious sins of humanity. To be an "elite" means that you are one of the more choicest part of a social group. Calvinist refer to these people as the "elect". They are the elect because they believe that they have been chosen by God to be his very own special people and the rest have been condemned to hell as worthless trash. If this is what you believe that God does, or is what God is like, you do not posses the Holy Spirit and are not a Christian. Christians are saved and justified by faith. We have faith that God is holy, Just, merciful and righteous. You cannot and will not be saved if you believe that God is a Nazi that delights in predestinating people to hell.

You'll have to wrestle with God unless you could prove the Jews were never "God's chosen people." Elite doesn't mean superior persay, though it can. Elite simply means a certain good classification all of their own. Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice." We are simply discussing how much or negligent your participation was involved in being a sheep.

 

[freelight]

Very ON TOPIC........

Very ON TOPIC........

Er, no. You aren't even on topic Mr. Random. YOU are ignorant going off topic. There are no 'three fingers' other than addressing YOU off-topic.

Been right on topic thru-out this thread addressing the points of Calvinism I disagree with, so your "Mr. Random" quote is laughable. Please read a whole thread, or make yourself aware of a posters contributions before spouting off judgments and assumptions, ...in the end you're the one with egg on your face.

See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here....and more thru-out various threads on the subject. Do your homework before assuming things.

We'll let the commentary and dialogues speak for themselves.

A believer in TULIP and the classical or hyper-forms of Calvinism (upholding all 5 points, whether soft-boiled or not) cannot say that God loves everyone, because in this system He does not in the truest sense, neither does he provide an actual opportunity for all souls to respond to his grace, since he's chosen to withhold/deprive his saving grace from certain souls, predestining/decreeing their damnation beforehand to which they cannot change or choose against, for his own mysterious reasons (he subjects these souls to a hellish fate) and PASSES them over, abandoning them to either eternal suffering or DEATH. - this is wholly contrary to love, antithetical to all that is good, true or beautiful, against all that is just, fair or logical...for starters. It is insane.....just like ECT is insane. Using the defense of "God can do what He wants because He's God" does not provide a solution either to what is illogical, irrational, unjust and immoral.

 

[TulipBee]

My previous points that foreknowledge or predestination does not necessarily abrograte or diminish free will, stands. Obviously were real freedom of choice exists, actual free exercise of volition, one is free to choose within that given sphere of space, while 'God' knows all potentials, possibilities and probabilities in every moment of existence, so his omniscience in this sense is all-encompassing, all-inclusive.

Denying God's word made your space so small you have no clue what you're choosing

 

[TulipBee]

The topic is John Calvin's Nazi god and the Nazi god don't exist unless pate is calling God a nazi. Unregenerates don't know what they're saying. You can talk about your cat here or you favorite celestial beings. This topic isn't a real topic. It's a troll topic. Unregenerates causing trouble.

 

[Eagles Wings]

I am who I am,...and in that native identity, I stand. I can don a 'label' if I choose, or not. I can also switch labels at any given time, if I find one label more pleasing or appealing than another. And still, what I am, I am - this 'I Am' is not separate from its source. I'll let you guess that 'source'

What you post here is jibberish. Your "source" is not the Holy God of Scripture, and if not Him, Satan, and one on his many hordes of demons. That's just how I see it.

 

[Robert Pate]

You believe He did that too. He created men, knowing that the road was narrow. He knew/knows most will not enter the narrow way YET predetermined that they would exist.

When Israel sinned and knew it, one way they eliminated the guilt of the sin, was to attach it to a goat and put it out of the city, hence "Scapegoat." You simply scapegoat Calvinism for problems your own theology carries. It is just simpler for you to scapegoat than to think about the inherent problems in your own theology. So be it. God looks after the downtrodden. Psalm 72:4 Isaiah 1:17

Hitler believed

Spoiler

that the Jewish people were the scum of the earth and should be annihilated. He murdered about 6 million of them before he was stopped. Hitler also believed that the German people were the master race and that they were special to God. If you were not German you were sub human. Hitler not only murdered Jews, he also murdered tens of thousands of people with physical and mental defects. He was trying to get rid of everyone that was offensive to the German master race.

Are there some parallels here between what John Calvin believed and what Hitler believed? I think that there is. They both believe that humans should be destroyed. This is the Spirit of Satan. Satan is the destroyer. I believe that when God announced to the angels in heaven that he was going to create a race of humans that would be greater than angels and that the angels would be subject to them, that there was rebellion in heaven, Revelation 12:7. Satan and his group were expelled from heaven and are still here on the earth today. They are demons. One of these demons got into the mind of John Calvin and convinced him that God predestinates people to hell before they are born.

I have found that people reflect in their lives what they believe about God. Muslims believe that Allah is a warring God. The Koran says, "Kill the infidels" (unbelievers) This is why Muslims think that they are doing God service when they murder people. Hitler thought he was doing God service by murdering the Jews. Hitler's excuse for murdering the Jews was that they were responsible for the crucifixion of Christ and because of that they needed to terminated.

John Calvin was the tyrant of Geneva. Here are some of his recorded atrocities.

1. During the ravages of the pestilence in 1545 more than twenty men and women were burned alive.
2. From 1542 to 1546 fifty eight judgments of death and twenty six decrees of banishment were passed.
3. During the years 1558 and 1559 the cases of various punishments for all sorts of offences amounted to four hundred and fourteen.
4. One burgher smiled while attending baptism: three days in jail.
5. Another,tired out on a hot summer day, went to sleep during a sermon, was sentenced to prison.
6. Some workmen ate pastry at breakfast: three days on bread and water.
7. Two burgers played skittles: prison.
8. Two others diced for a quarter bottle of wine: prison.
9. A blind fiddler played and danced: expelled from the city.
10. Another praised Castello's translation of the Bible: expelled from the city.
11. A girl was caught skating. A widow threw herself on her husbands grave. A burgher offered his neighbor a pinch of snuff during a divine service: they were summoned befor the Consistory, exhorted and orfdered to do penance.
!2. Some cheerful fellows at Epiphany stuck a bean in a cake: twenty four hours on bread and water.
13. A couple of peasants talked about business matters on coming out of church: prison.
14. A man played cards: he was pilloried with a pack hung around his neck.
15. Another sang riotiously in the streets was told, "they could go sing elsewhere" this meaning that he was banished from the city.
16. Two burgees had a brawl: executed.

The death penalty against heresy, idolatry and blasphemy and barbarous customs of torture were retained. Attendance at public worship was commanded on penalty of three sols. Watchmen were appointed to see that people went to church. The members of the Consistory visited every house to see that people went to church. The members of the Consistory visited every house once a year to examine the faith and the morals of the family> Every unseemly word and act on the streets was reported and the offenders were cited before the Consistory to be either censored and warned, or to be handed over to the council for severer punishment. (Compiled by Jack Moorman)

Just before Hitler began murdering the Jews he imposed sever sanctions upon them. If John Calvin would have lived long enough he would have become another Hitler.

Anybody associated with politics is also paired to the atrocities, right or wrong, evidence or lack thereof. Two Points: We don't get to re-try Calvin or Luther, or anybody else. Comparing may be of help or service but generally is not either and does neither. Accusations can fly all day long and it isn't that important because you and I only have what is written and opinions aren't even a dime a dozen these days. Second: I don't follow "Paul or Apollos" nor do I follow Calvin, so it doesn't matter what he did to me. THE ONLY THING of import where Calvin is concerned, is whether he was right or wrong, even if he was or wasn't a putz.

You'll have to wrestle with God unless you could prove the Jews were never "God's chosen people." Elite doesn't mean superior persay, though it can. Elite simply means a certain good classification all of their own. Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice." We are simply discussing how much or negligent your participation was involved in being a sheep.

The more serious part of Calvinism is that it is unbelievable. Who could possibly believe that God predestinates people to hell before the are born? And then if you do believe that about God you have just admitted that you don't have faith in him. I'ts not possible to believe that God predestinates people to hell and then have faith in him. The word "Faith" means confidence or trust. Who can trust in a God that predestinates people to hell before they are born. I can't and I don't think that anyone can. What Calvinist have faith in is a doctrine that they believe makes them special while everybody is is just fuel for the fire. It is a bad case of elitism.

 

[TulipBee]

What you post here is jibberish. The source is not of the Holy God of Scripture, and if not Him, Satan, and one on his many hordes of demons. That's just how I see it.

I've read tons of new age books by tons of all kinds of celestial beings and they all contradict each other. They can't get their tales together so they write the urantia books to put together more fables. Only suckers fall for it

 

[TulipBee]

Nazi Hitler believed in the RCC so he pretty much believes in works, same as pate teaches.